Orc Strategies
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Slight case of thread resurrection. Oh well.
Some stuff that I have found while playing Northerners:
(Not sure how much of this is useful so feel free to dispute it)
1. Maintain the initiative. This principle probably applies to all factions somewhat, but I have found that it is crucial for Northerners. They are lousy defenders, so they must keep up the offense. You never want to be in a position where you are using your turns to react to the moves made by the enemy. Make them react to you!
So if they are forcing you to play defensively, send some Wolf Riders around the lines to grab villages. You opponent will need to divert forces to hunt down the wolf riders, depleting their frontline and allowing you to (hopefully) regain the upper hand. If the opponent ignores the Wolf Riders they will have to suffer economically as you take their villages.
To keep momentum I have found it can be a good idea to continue attacking in daylight if you are against enemies of neutral alignment. This only applies to neutral enemies though, don't try it against lawful.
2. Retreating. It isn't fun but it is sometimes necessary, in particular when against lawful enemies in day. With Northerners retreating is especially unpleasant. As well as giving up territory you are letting go of that initiative. In addition, Northerners are a little slow and don't have the best defence, so are extra vulnerable when retreating. What works best for me is the troll meatshield, for obvious reasons. They can hold the line with the best of them, even in daylight. If you don't have Trolls available then use Grunts, they are a poor compromise but better then having your main pack shredded.
3. Don't underestimate the humble Naga. They are very fast, their attack has high strikes and they are easy to level up. Once they are at level 2 they are quite comfortable on grassland, something I have used several times to give opponents a rude shock.
4. I strongly reccomend putting some effort into leveling a troll or two. They have a low XP requirement and a level 2 Troll is useful is almost any situation.
All I can think of for now.
One question: I often see people saying that Undead are nastier then Orcs at night. I'm not exactly questioning this, but how does it make sense? Since they are both chaotic, wouldn't the bonus be the same...?
Some stuff that I have found while playing Northerners:
(Not sure how much of this is useful so feel free to dispute it)
1. Maintain the initiative. This principle probably applies to all factions somewhat, but I have found that it is crucial for Northerners. They are lousy defenders, so they must keep up the offense. You never want to be in a position where you are using your turns to react to the moves made by the enemy. Make them react to you!
So if they are forcing you to play defensively, send some Wolf Riders around the lines to grab villages. You opponent will need to divert forces to hunt down the wolf riders, depleting their frontline and allowing you to (hopefully) regain the upper hand. If the opponent ignores the Wolf Riders they will have to suffer economically as you take their villages.
To keep momentum I have found it can be a good idea to continue attacking in daylight if you are against enemies of neutral alignment. This only applies to neutral enemies though, don't try it against lawful.
2. Retreating. It isn't fun but it is sometimes necessary, in particular when against lawful enemies in day. With Northerners retreating is especially unpleasant. As well as giving up territory you are letting go of that initiative. In addition, Northerners are a little slow and don't have the best defence, so are extra vulnerable when retreating. What works best for me is the troll meatshield, for obvious reasons. They can hold the line with the best of them, even in daylight. If you don't have Trolls available then use Grunts, they are a poor compromise but better then having your main pack shredded.
3. Don't underestimate the humble Naga. They are very fast, their attack has high strikes and they are easy to level up. Once they are at level 2 they are quite comfortable on grassland, something I have used several times to give opponents a rude shock.
4. I strongly reccomend putting some effort into leveling a troll or two. They have a low XP requirement and a level 2 Troll is useful is almost any situation.
All I can think of for now. One question: I often see people saying that Undead are nastier then Orcs at night. I'm not exactly questioning this, but how does it make sense? Since they are both chaotic, wouldn't the bonus be the same...?
I have asked myself the same thing, but I only came up with two things: the Shadow and Nightgaunt have night-stalk... While none of the orcs have.Zhukov wrote:One question: I often see people saying that Undead are nastier then Orcs at night. I'm not exactly questioning this, but how does it make sense? Since they are both chaotic, wouldn't the bonus be the same...?
Two: The nagas are neutral while all of the undead are chaotic.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Partially rounding error. Orcish Grunts at night do 11-2 or 12-2, 4 damage stronger than their normal attack. Skeletons, however, deal out an impressive 9-3 - a bonus of 6 damage, and 5 more than even a strong Grunt can do, as opposed to 1 more in twilight.Zhukov wrote:One question: I often see people saying that Undead are nastier then Orcs at night. I'm not exactly questioning this, but how does it make sense? Since they are both chaotic, wouldn't the bonus be the same...?
That's melee. In ranged, the Orcs have only a weak Archer, but the Undead have the devastating Dark Adept. Also, the Orcs have their Assassin, whose poison does 8 damage regardless of the time of day.
Furthermore, the Orcs have the Troll Whelp, with equal regeneration at all times and not much of an attack, and the Undead have the Ghost, which drains more at night (at least than during Day...), a very powerful effect.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
i just played a ffa castle hop. I was northerners, and the 3 other guys were rebels. They got lots of archers with some mages and fighters to back them up. If I ever tried to attack they were always in castle/forest/hill and it would be really hard to fight them with my grunts/trolls/assassins. If i tried to play defensive in the hills, they would come and shoot at all my guys, and leave them at 50% health or if they got lucky 20%. At this point i can either run and heal or try and fight back, but since my health is so low from them getting first shot with ranged attacks, there was high risk trying to counter attack. I eventually lost after killing 2 guys, because it was night time, while losing 2 nagas in the water, 2 scouts in villages, and a few trolls/grunts on the main lines, they forced me to crowd my keep, and took all my villages. I felt completely helpless, what could i have tried to have a better chance?
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Thrawn
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never play soley defensive. During day, keep you units on mountains, but put assassins in the front, to discourage ranged attacks. Keep trolls up front as well, as they regenerate, and have pierce resistance.Krytain wrote:i just played a ffa castle hop. I was northerners, and the 3 other guys were rebels. They got lots of archers with some mages and fighters to back them up. If I ever tried to attack they were always in castle/forest/hill and it would be really hard to fight them with my grunts/trolls/assassins. If i tried to play defensive in the hills, they would come and shoot at all my guys, and leave them at 50% health or if they got lucky 20%. At this point i can either run and heal or try and fight back, but since my health is so low from them getting first shot with ranged attacks, there was high risk trying to counter attack. I eventually lost after killing 2 guys, because it was night time, while losing 2 nagas in the water, 2 scouts in villages, and a few trolls/grunts on the main lines, they forced me to crowd my keep, and took all my villages. I felt completely helpless, what could i have tried to have a better chance?
At night, attack them, even if they are in the woods, just get on the best terrain you can.
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott
this goes for they're/their/there as well
this goes for they're/their/there as well
Note: Quick Nagas are useful can do a surprise manuvre because they can move 4 hex on grass. The opponent usually don't expect your Nagas to come to land and attack! Nagas, IMO are better than Merman because they are quicker, and more versatility. On land they are often ignored, you have a naga, 2 grunts and an archer, your opponent count only the 2 grunts and archer when attacking, not expecting that the naga could come finish off the Mage or Ulfserker they expected to survive on low hp then escape with it..
Why did the fish laugh? Because the sea weed.
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orcish_orc
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Yeah. And attract those meelee attackers. Assasins are to poison, not to hold villages or defend your army.Thrawn wrote: put assassins in the front, to discourage ranged attacks.
I used to play all my matches without the troll whelp, and it still worked for me. Basically if you can swarm your enemy and cut off their gold, you don't really have a need for 'meat shields'. Most of the time my opponent is retreating to heal the poisoned units; the longer poisoned units stay and fight the longer they take to heal. With a retreating enemy, you can advance.
Swarming enemies is quite easy for the northerners, because of their low cost. And village-wise, I'll use naga to control the water and grab villages, land villages included. This strategy works well on coast or swampy maps, and small ones, like blitz, when two naga appear out of the blue and capture two cities a turn...
And lastly, IMO the orcish archers are not bad. They have a normal pierce attack, and in addition, fire covers drake saurians (making them good against the whole drake faction... pierce the drakes, fire the saurians) and undead, the two factions which have the most speacialised counter strategies (pierce and impact, respectively.)
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Elvish_Star
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Additional ideas, from a so so player. First of all f..ck lv 2 units, it's hard to get them reliably in MP. So basically when you recruit troll whelps, be aware that they will be ... troll whelps for the whole fight.
Initial recruit
If I don't know which faction I face I go for
1 assassin
2 grunts
1 whelp
1 archer
1 naga/wolf/goblin according to map
Against Undead
At least 2/3 of your forces should be Archer + Troll, both of wich are devastating against certain undead troops. Your medium damage + the constant 8hp regeneration of trolls doesn't stand for night combat against UD. Use daylight). Orcs just lack punch against UD (outdamaged at night, low damage at day) but complete an army, assassins are plain useless and goblins might complete your army.
An inital recruit against UD might be 2 whelps, 2 archers, 1 grunt and 1 other unit (wolf/naga/goblin) according to the map.
Agaisnt all other factions, you definitely need the damage boost from assassins (8/turn isn't too shabby in addition to your regular damage). I repeat, you will be too severely outdamaged if you forget to poison your ennemy's front line. You must have 2 assassins up evrytime.
Against drakes
Unless you like the smell of toasted trolls, don't recruit (m)any of them. Drake hit too hard and are too mobile for regeneration to be very usefull. Use a mix of grunts (as you get 3 grunts for the price of 1 fighter + & burner), goblins, assassins and a pinch of archers. You should fight with a balanced forced of these units, and recruit units so that your alive forces keeps this balance (if grunts die easily, recruit more of them). Beware, using too many gobs means no ZoC, too little means not enoguh physical pierce damage. Too many grunts mean low damage, too little means you will loose expensive HP. By the way orcs are good at cutting saurians. Too many assassin means ... no one left to poison, too little means a tough drake will get a massage from a 5-2 grunt). Keep you force balanced and everything will be allright
Against drakes and humans, notice that assassins hit as strong during daylight. Basically poison at day so that opponent units are weakened and killable at night.
Each unit has its role
Assassins poison averyone and do your damage
Grunt take hits ... and die instead of more fragile units
Goblins pinch burners
Archers pinch fighter
2 grunts, 2 assassins, 1 archer and 1 goblin might be an initial recruit.
Against human
I don't play this match very welll but basically it goes for : you dominate at night, he dominates at day, make your prefered time be decisive. Orcish archer are very meh against loyalists (not enough dmg IMHO). Use a combination of trolls, grunts and assassins.
If you opponents uses cavalry, add goblins (who destroy cavalry). But don't hope too much for it, think cavalry will often stay at the stables.
Grunts hits mages,duellists and archers
Trolls go for pikemen/archers
Assassins go for eveyone
If the map allows it, naga can be a powerfull land unit.
Against elves
IMHO a very tough match up. Your archers barely outdamage elvish fighters ... AT RANGE ! So use them only for wose burning against a wose spammer.
Try to fight in the hills (plains are OK at night/dawn) . Assassins will poison the cowards hiding in the forests. Never accept a forest battle, you have no change of winning it. (basically you'll receive 3 damage for every point you inflict)
On ten units, go for 3 grunts, 3 assassins, 1 archer, 2 trolls and a rider/naga
Against knalgans
Though it may sound strange, you can stand toe to toe in a hill battle. Use a balanced force, but never forget you will go nowhere without assassins. The difficulty here is that most people think dwarves, but knakgans also mean outlaws.
Against a noob/dwarf players (the LOL OUTLAWS SUX) you'll beat them by poisonning everyone and trolling the mountains (archers are usefull for the kills too). Grunts will punish ulfserkers, and 12 gold is less than 19.
Outlaws are a pain in the ass, because they are elusive and do respectable damage. Grunt are good against them, but not so much against dwarves.
Basicall keep trolls in the mountains, orcs in plains, assassins wherever thay have 70% defense. Archers will complement your forces.
Initial recruit
If I don't know which faction I face I go for
1 assassin
2 grunts
1 whelp
1 archer
1 naga/wolf/goblin according to map
Against Undead
At least 2/3 of your forces should be Archer + Troll, both of wich are devastating against certain undead troops. Your medium damage + the constant 8hp regeneration of trolls doesn't stand for night combat against UD. Use daylight). Orcs just lack punch against UD (outdamaged at night, low damage at day) but complete an army, assassins are plain useless and goblins might complete your army.
An inital recruit against UD might be 2 whelps, 2 archers, 1 grunt and 1 other unit (wolf/naga/goblin) according to the map.
Agaisnt all other factions, you definitely need the damage boost from assassins (8/turn isn't too shabby in addition to your regular damage). I repeat, you will be too severely outdamaged if you forget to poison your ennemy's front line. You must have 2 assassins up evrytime.
Against drakes
Unless you like the smell of toasted trolls, don't recruit (m)any of them. Drake hit too hard and are too mobile for regeneration to be very usefull. Use a mix of grunts (as you get 3 grunts for the price of 1 fighter + & burner), goblins, assassins and a pinch of archers. You should fight with a balanced forced of these units, and recruit units so that your alive forces keeps this balance (if grunts die easily, recruit more of them). Beware, using too many gobs means no ZoC, too little means not enoguh physical pierce damage. Too many grunts mean low damage, too little means you will loose expensive HP. By the way orcs are good at cutting saurians. Too many assassin means ... no one left to poison, too little means a tough drake will get a massage from a 5-2 grunt). Keep you force balanced and everything will be allright
Against drakes and humans, notice that assassins hit as strong during daylight. Basically poison at day so that opponent units are weakened and killable at night.
Each unit has its role
Assassins poison averyone and do your damage
Grunt take hits ... and die instead of more fragile units
Goblins pinch burners
Archers pinch fighter
2 grunts, 2 assassins, 1 archer and 1 goblin might be an initial recruit.
Against human
I don't play this match very welll but basically it goes for : you dominate at night, he dominates at day, make your prefered time be decisive. Orcish archer are very meh against loyalists (not enough dmg IMHO). Use a combination of trolls, grunts and assassins.
If you opponents uses cavalry, add goblins (who destroy cavalry). But don't hope too much for it, think cavalry will often stay at the stables.
Grunts hits mages,duellists and archers
Trolls go for pikemen/archers
Assassins go for eveyone
If the map allows it, naga can be a powerfull land unit.
Against elves
IMHO a very tough match up. Your archers barely outdamage elvish fighters ... AT RANGE ! So use them only for wose burning against a wose spammer.
Try to fight in the hills (plains are OK at night/dawn) . Assassins will poison the cowards hiding in the forests. Never accept a forest battle, you have no change of winning it. (basically you'll receive 3 damage for every point you inflict)
On ten units, go for 3 grunts, 3 assassins, 1 archer, 2 trolls and a rider/naga
Against knalgans
Though it may sound strange, you can stand toe to toe in a hill battle. Use a balanced force, but never forget you will go nowhere without assassins. The difficulty here is that most people think dwarves, but knakgans also mean outlaws.
Against a noob/dwarf players (the LOL OUTLAWS SUX) you'll beat them by poisonning everyone and trolling the mountains (archers are usefull for the kills too). Grunts will punish ulfserkers, and 12 gold is less than 19.
Outlaws are a pain in the ass, because they are elusive and do respectable damage. Grunt are good against them, but not so much against dwarves.
Basicall keep trolls in the mountains, orcs in plains, assassins wherever thay have 70% defense. Archers will complement your forces.
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Blarumyrran
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Beholder wrote:Many people may not agree with me, but I rarely do Orc Grunts at all. Curiosly, even with Trolls smaller damage, their type of damage (blunt) is better versus a variety of troops.
I can, maybe, make 1 or 2 grunts, to fight in Village tiles, but thats it.
did someone just do a comeback...-
Doc Paterson
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I believe it.Beholder wrote:I rarely do Orc Grunts at all.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
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Thrawn
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I love how people are resurrecting year+ old threads of mine, when the information in them suck and in some cases is out of date...
I should rewrite these, as JW's faction guides are incomplete
I should rewrite these, as JW's faction guides are incomplete
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott
this goes for they're/their/there as well
this goes for they're/their/there as well
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Blarumyrran
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That is bull. Try thinking before posting.Syntax_Error wrote:Higher Game's last post is on january 30...
Beholder joined january 30...
hmm...
HG couldn't draw. Beholder can.
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Blarumyrran
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