Marksmanship Discussion.

[SmokemJags]

Speaking of not having two abilties that do the same thing...

Magical makes an attack hit at 70%, regardless.
Marksmanship makes an attack hit at 60% regardless.
Maybe this melee version should be set to 50% regardless?

That would be pretty devastating against low hp evasion units such as the assassin and the thief line if it was 60% regardless. Maybe 50% is preferable.
We are talking a level one unit that has this ability right? Marksmanship doesn't come into play until level 2 units and anyone with magic attack naturally has a ton of weaknesses.

[Xan]

Speaking of not having two abilties that do the same thing...

Magical makes an attack hit at 70%, regardless.
Marksmanship makes an attack hit at 60% regardless.

No, markmanship gives a minimum of 60% CTH on offense only.

[Noy]

Speaking of not having two abilties that do the same thing...

Magical makes an attack hit at 70%, regardless.
Marksmanship makes an attack hit at 60% regardless.
Maybe this melee version should be set to 50% regardless?

That would be pretty devastating against low hp evasion units such as the assassin and the thief line if it was 60% regardless. Maybe 50% is preferable.
We are talking a level one unit that has this ability right? Marksmanship doesn't come into play until level 2 units and anyone with magic attack naturally has a ton of weaknesses.

Look, this isn't a discussion about the properties of Marksmanship or whether it should be in this faction. We Intended that this unit have marksmanship for the very reason that we needed a counter for units like the Assassin and theif. Its getting 60%, and isn't overpowered when you compare it to the mage with fire damage does 70% and 7-3. I think its pretty tough for anybody to have any idea how these units will affect the balance without playtesting it, and if any people have an idea, its probably going to be the MP devs.

[Noy]

Back to the discussion at hand:

"marksmanship" doesn't mean "to be accurate" it means to be skilled with a shot, which the end result is to be accurate. Therefore terms like precise, accurate are not really equivalents to marksmanshi[. Something like Handiness, or swordsmanship are better equivalents. The refer to people's skills, which as a result make them more accurate.

[JW]

Back to the discussion at hand:

"marksmanship" doesn't mean "to be accurate" it means to be skilled with a shot, which the end result is to be accurate. Therefore terms like precise, accurate are not really equivalents to marksmanshi[. Something like Handiness, or swordsmanship are better equivalents. The refer to people's skills, which as a result make them more accurate.

Regardless, do you want to have two names for the same ability applied to two different ranges? If so, it might be best to find a term that describes accuracy for all melee type weapons, unless you prefer to keep it a limited name to only swords?

ps, a dragon's fire breath having "Marksman" makes little sense to me...

[Sapient]

Along that line, Noy, some more ideas:

expert, mastery, proficient?

I agree that the marksmanship skill name should describe the unit, not just his attack, since he gains access to the attack through superior training or sheer physical skill.

I also think mastery sounds cool, and it covers both sword and bow skill (and possibly fire breathing skill). Any confusion could quickly be resolved by clicking on the special ability to read about its mechanics.

[Noy]

Regardless, do you want to have two names for the same ability applied to two different ranges? If so, it might be best to find a term that describes accuracy for all melee type weapons, unless you prefer to keep it a limited name to only swords?

ps, a dragon's fire breath having "Marksman" makes little sense to me...

To some extent so is "accurate." I'd actually rather see marksman than accurate or precise as descriptions for its abilities because the latter two are adjectives, rather than Marksmanship/swordsmanship which is a noun. Nouns are a definitive skill. Adjectives are not.

As I said this isn't an easy process, the MP devs have racked our brain over this one for awhile. It may be that we will have to create a specific catagory like something like "weapon speciality - Sword"

[Noy]

Along that line, Noy, some more ideas:

expert, mastery, proficient?

I agree that the marksmanship skill name should describe the unit, not just his attack, since he gains access to the attack through superior training or sheer physical skill.

I also think mastery sounds cool, and it covers both sword and bow skill (and possibly fire breathing skill). Any confusion could quickly be resolved by clicking on the special ability to read about its mechanics.

I think those are more along the lines we are looking for. Proficiency is a good one too.

I liked marksmanship as an ability name. Its a definitive skill as well as a unit name. I'd like to see it retained in some way.

[JW]

To some extent so is "accurate." I'd actually rather see marksman than accurate or precise as descriptions for its abilities because the latter two are adjectives, rather than Marksmanship/swordsmanship which is a noun. Nouns are a definitive skill. Adjectives are not.

As I said this isn't an easy process, the MP devs have racked our brain over this one for awhile. It may be that we will have to create a specific catagory like something like "weapon speciality - Sword"

I would very much not like to see this be the chosen path.

Also, I am not adamantly opposed to having two names for the same ability. All it would require would be copying some code and changing the test in one copy to [Swordsmanship] (or whatever). I was just raising the questions. I think a minor un-KISSness won't hurt dramatically in this instance.

[Ken_Oh]

I was thinking about suggesting something like "Swordsman," "Blademaster," "Sword Mastery" or something that denotes that their weapon is sharp and that their equipment is well kept, but you have to consider people might want to use this for units that use weapons other than swords or blades.

I think accurate or precise are the best because they aren't vague.

[Ranger M]

it should be Uber L33T Pawnzer skillz!!

just kidding, maybe something similar to martial mastery (although martial isn't appropriate) or melee mastery.

maybe 'combat mastery', when I hear the it doesn't sound like a ranged thing, more like melee.

[Noy]

I was thinking about suggesting something like "Swordsman," "Blademaster," "Sword Mastery" or something that denotes that their weapon is sharp and that their equipment is well kept, but you have to consider people might want to use this for units that use weapons other than swords or blades.

I think accurate or precise are the best because they aren't vague.

Well that is the point. Markmanship does not necessarily mean that a person is only accurate, he may also know how to make a good bow, straight arrows, and how to best place an arrow, something acurate and precise do not connote.

Proficiency - X makes it clear that the unit is knows how to do these things.

[irrevenant]

Along that line, Noy, some more ideas:
expert, mastery, proficient?
I agree that the marksmanship skill name should describe the unit, not just his attack, since he gains access to the attack through superior training or sheer physical skill.
I also think mastery sounds cool, and it covers both sword and bow skill (and possibly fire breathing skill). Any confusion could quickly be resolved by clicking on the special ability to read about its mechanics.

I was going to say mastery. Bit low crashing the forum just so you could beat me to it.

It sums up what we're trying to convey; supreme skill in a given area.

[JW]

Well that is the point. Markmanship does not necessarily mean that a person is only accurate, he may also know how to make a good bow, straight arrows, and how to best place an arrow, something acurate and precise do not connote.

Proficiency - X makes it clear that the unit is knows how to do these things.

The only effect the ability has on the game however is that the unit does strike more accurately. These reasonings you're providing seem to be addressing something else, like unit description.

[Sapient]

something that denotes that their weapon is sharp and that their equipment is well kept

But that would imply that a sharp weapon is better than a magic weapon under certain conditions, which seems illogical.

I was thinking of calling it "def2drake"