LordBob's random stuff : Nagas and more

[thespaceinvader]

10 is probably my favourite.

[LordBob]

isn't the current wraith portrait good enough?

?
Based on the the grand portrait list, it's one of the last few missing. (ingame, it currently uses the same portrait as the ghost). but maybe the time is nearing when we'll have to do a major update of that list.

[Jetrel]

a problem with drawing armor on ghosts and skeletons is that it hints that the resistances are similar to other armored units when actually ghosts have the same ghostly resistances & skeletons have the same skeletony resistances - so the less armor skeletons & ghosts have on them, the better.

No, it doesn't hint that at all: resistances are not directly representative of just armor. They also represent the body underneath, because hitpoints are just a type-less value that doesn't account for how very different bodies react to different kinds of damage. Our two stats for toughness represent merged values so we can simplify it down to two; it spares us from needing a lot more stats.


Skeletons have the same armor that regular humans do (in disrepair but it still gives good-ish coverage), and they're similarly protected by it. But most of the time, their armor doesn't matter, because their body under the armor doesn't work like ours. They don't have organs to stab. The bones, themselves, are the only things to damage

As for ghosts, the armor itself is insubstantial. If you want some (very) silly "hard sci-fi" depiction to drive our stats, then pretend the ghosts are like force-fields, in the shape of a person wearing armor, made with "magic energy" that deplete their energy reserves every time they're hit. Rather like fighting a monster made up by the star trek holodeck. It doesn't matter what they're made of. Silly as hell, and not how I prefer to imagine the ghosts in the game, but it's a good reflection of our stats, which are optimized for making smooth gameplay, rather than catering to a more nuanced fantasy portrayal.

[Sapient]

Least Favorite:
1,6,9,10, (my apologies to TSI)
17,21,26

Most Favorite:
12,13,25


This should be just in time for Halloween, eh?

[Blarumyrran]

to Jetrel:

resistances are not directly representative of just armor. They also represent the body underneath, because hitpoints are just a type-less value that doesn't account for how very different bodies react to different kinds of damage.

Correct, so far

their armor doesn't matter, because their body under the armor doesn't work like ours.

Exactly. This is why they shouldn't have too much armor drawn over them!

They don't have organs to stab.

Again correct! What exactly are you confused about, then?

the ghosts are like force-fields, in the shape of a person wearing armor, made with "magic energy" that deplete their energy reserves every time they're hit. Rather like fighting a monster made up by the star trek holodeck. It doesn't matter what they're made of. Silly as hell, and not how I prefer to imagine the ghosts in the game, but it's a good reflection of our stats, which are optimized for making smooth gameplay, rather than catering to a more nuanced fantasy portrayal.

That is a stupid explanation, and I'm happy for you that you have come up with the courage to admit it. Like most of your ideas on video games and settings, this explanation stems from your obsession with japanese video games where every attack and weapon and spell and enemy is made of energy, holograms and dimensions. But I want to see you improve as an artist and a designer; you must let go of that mentality, it is very dangerous to stay put in it. With this you are taking the first step in the right direction!

Still, please stop derailing this thread and read Posting Guidelines!

isn't the current wraith portrait good enough?

?
Based on the the grand portrait list, it's one of the last few missing. (ingame, it currently uses the same portrait as the ghost).

My bad.

[doofus-01]

I don't hate any of them. I like 28, in part because it doesn't "out-badass" the spectre portrait. Some of the others look cool, but would it fit with what's already done (should that even matter?)

[vultraz]

I like 1, 10, 12, 19, 21, 24, and 27. Seems almost everyone likes 10

[LordBob]

Thanks everyone for the reviews. So far, numbers 10, 12, 13 and 28 stand out the most, so next I'll produce advanced sketches based on those (though #28 is really a ringwraith, so I'll try not to stick to him too closely).

[homunculus]

The spectre portrait which has probably (as far as I remember) been used for wraith is

That does look like a generic spectre/wraith portrait.

My vote for wraith: 5, 25.
However, 18 would clearly be my first choice for wraith if the pose did not look so awkward in fighting. Press something, say, a shield, against the right hand, or just grab the right hand, and both hands of the wraith would become blocked leaving you free to cut it up with your right hand weapon. Does the right hand need to be so much forward like that, rather than near the elbow?

Spoiler:

Many of those sketches would make a nice spectre portrait (2, 3, 11, maybe 12).
But if the new portrait with sword would be spectre, the sword and scythe would be the other way round with wraith and spectre and that might attract attention.

For wraith I think a less static pose that looks more eager to prove itself in battle and shows more aggression would be more suitable than a calm and confident pose (like a higher level could have), therefore my vote for wraith would be 5 or 25.
15 maybe, if it would not look so bulky in shoulders and so much like the costume from 'scream' movie.
if it needs to look less badass than spectre then 28 looks like something halfway between ghost and spectre.

[LordBob]

Homunculus: in the 1.11 unit tree at least, the portrait that shows up on the wraith page is that of the ghost. But you do have a point : were we unable to produce a new portrait, I'd resort to this one.

But, I'm having fun so let's keep working.

I'm attaching below some colour studies. Since the final portrait will be based at least partly on one of them, I would like you people to point your favourite. If you don't have one but like, say, the colour of the first and pose of the third and a specific part of yet another one, just say so.

[Zerovirus]

I prefer the ones without visible skulls, both because the idea that the skull only shows up when a ghost reaches its final Spectre form is an interesting fluff development, and because the transition from empty-hood to armored-skull matches the sprites.

[thespaceinvader]

Posture-wise I like B, but I definitely feel that the skull should either be invisible or only barely visible.

[doofus-01]

Well, the ghost portrait has a skull, so a skull on the wraith would be OK, I'd think.

B, or H with a head & hood more like B

[Blarumyrran]

I like G/H (sans the unsymmetrical sword)/D.

[Deciton_Reven]

I think B is a very nice pose an has a nice coloration (though it's slightly warm, or maybe bright, compared to the other units in its line). The sword in particular caught my eye for prettiness. I'm also not a big fan of skulls in/on ghosts, but as that is wesnoth mainline (as well as it adds some uniqueness) I can't complain to much.