[Complete] PYRA Mudcrawler Is Devastating - The Tournament

[iceiceice]

I vote C, why don't we collect all the results before making balance changes mid tournament
I think most players already knew DAOG was extremely strong coming into this, everyone is free to pick, its not like it makes the tournament unfair.

[Danniel_BR]

I vote C and think ulf should be less expensive to solve the DA problem

[Horus2]

Velenks: I really like your comment, but unfortunately i'm in a hurry, hopefully i can return to it later the day, as i really do not want to answer in a slap-dash manner.

I vote C and think ulf should be less expensive to solve the DA problem

This is a wrong approach to solve anything. If we are making a counter more effective, that just makes the meta more forced. Dwarvish Ulfserker was very cost effective for 20 gold during the first PYRAMID, and while it indeed set the DA back, for everything a lower cost would solve (the magic-wielders), it would make ten other DwU vs ranged unit relation worse. Players of the I. PYRAMID may confirm. Nevertheless i accepted your vote.

I vote C, why don't we collect all the results before making balance changes mid tournament
I think most players already knew DAOG was extremely strong coming into this, everyone is free to pick, its not like it makes the tournament unfair.

Gathering feedback was continuous in the past 4 years. For example, we lived with v1.0 prices for more than one year, and that features skels at the default price (and incidentally, even cheapers magi). In retrospect, i consider overseeing the Skeleton's and the Skeleton Archer's potential for so long as the most awkward period of PYRA balancing for me, yet at that time noone was vocal about it. This comes down to two things: the aforementioned cheap magi countered them, and we were all biased due to the default era ("if we can handle UD in default, we can handle skeletons in pyra, impact, fire, gg").
Now the era reached a maturity where it is really hard to collect insight without a serious environment. In the last time i commited changes to standard units, those were already based on the evaluation of the I. PYRAMID, most notably for the Dwarvish Ulfserker and Orcish Archer, but also for Ghost, Fencer and Saurian Skirmisher to a lesser extent. Casual games will not do anymore, not only because players are not being serious business, but many of them want to try alternative or silly strategies. This means less feedback for the true power of the DA and Mage, now that DwU got nerfed. It never crossed my mind that this tournament will be such a magefest. Like you say, the era will not be unfair in either of the options, because luckily the core mechanic balances out the era by itself.
But once again i need to emphasise: i am not changing anything in the middle of the round, if i will do it, i do it between the round, so noone will be in disadvantage. It won't even affect the 60% of us, and the remaining 40% are the proven champions, who hopefully don't mind a change if it is making top level play more varied and exciting, also they are expected to acclimatise easily.

[thefish]

Hello , I vote A, cu

[Mint]

I'm leaning on option B, as the mages outclass the other ranged damage options by far, however I think the saurian augur doesn't need a price increase.

[iceiceice]

If you are in the mood for drastic balance changes, why not bring down the price of skeletons a bit? I never really understood the need for these to be so high... if they were at all viable it would certainly help to weaken grunts and adepts significantly.

Edit: *takes off balance commentator hat*

[Snowman]

I would say A. And the poor initiate is imho so useless already that she should stay where she is, if not become cheaper.

I just wonder about something - will you (i) simply compare the number of votes and pick the most frequently voted one or (ii) look for median voter preference? To give an example: You end up with 15 for C, 12 for A, and 5 for B. Median voter prefers A but most frequent vote is C. I am asking because if (i) is the case, people preferring B might want to strategically vote for A.

Sorry about commenting on voting system rather than the game itself, I just thought this should be clarified.

[thefish]

Hi, i change my vote for "B" , cu

[NanRage]

Not sure my vote counts as I am math in hands out of next round.

But I consider that we start with a bunch with rules and to be fair to all we should die with them. Otherwise what about games I lost to that units?

To me rules must remain as they are to end to be fair to all.

So C

[abhijit]

My humble opinions:

1. Do not think changing the DA price by 1g will help against the DAOG style of play, grunt price needs to be changed. 12g is fine on default orc faction, even there 13g won't hurt.

2. I have always thought the sprite to be underpriced.

3. Not all magi are as threatening as the DA because:
a) Human mage's powerphase comes in the daytime, where grunt support isn't that effective. It can also easily be blocked by a unit, like a clasher with some clever terrain usage.
b) Saurian mage's damage is too little to be of any problem.

4. As for the dusk faerie, rogue mage and apprentice, they are reasonably priced imho.

No issues with changing the prices between rounds, however i don't like any of the options. If you do decide to test the DA price increase, I would vote for the lawful mage to remain at 18. Same goes with saurian augur.



Regards,
abhijit

[iceiceice]

Just want to lend my (very humble) opinions in support of what abhijit said (I do agree with everything that he said):

Orcish grunt at 12g is one of the most effective units in the game. This advantage is basically the mainstay of northerners in default era, such that in many cases it is correct to spam grunts exclusively or nearly exclusively. In PYRA it should come as no surprise that they should always be chosen... it's hard to go wrong with grunts, they are like 80% of a faction just by themselves.

(Okay, really done with the balance commentator hat this time...)

[Blop]

Game 2 between szdik570 and myself is starting in a few seconds!

[Blop]

Also i think both grunt and da need a +1g price increase. Mage perhaps, the others.. well i dont feel like they need an increase.

[nagafono]

nagafono vs Snowman will start at 15:00 GMT on Saturday

[nagafono]

Also i think both grunt and da need a +1g price increase. Mage perhaps, the others.. well i dont feel like they need an increase.

perhaps, all the units, exept mudcrawler? cmon, cost of augur is already too high. grunt would be almost useless swhen he would cost 13 gold. that would mean that he is almost equal spearman, which, of course, far from the truth (i wouldnt even tell that in such way on maps with 14 villages there would be very hard to make grunt rush with 13 gold per grunt)