The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4c

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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lipk
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Re: The Devils Flute - version 0.1.1

Post by lipk »

Big thanks for playing the campaign and reviewing. I feel lucky that I get so much of useful feedback :)
In Anyguest's Inn, I couldn't remember what the 4 guests said when I'm supposed to guess which one is fake. It was easier to just randomly pick one and reload the game, then loading to a few turns earlier to review the dialog. Since it's intended to be a logic puzzle, I don't think it should require the player to memorize the clues. Either let the heroine take notes, or allow her to revisit the rooms and listen to the guests' lines before making a decision.
In fact, there used to be a summary after visiting all the guests, it just became a victim of dialog redesign. I added a narrator message summing up the statements for now. However, I'd like to have some more sophisticated, left-click menu WML stuff there in the future.
In Zombies in the Stable, pushing a walking corpse off the screen makes it disappear, and if there's no more walking corpse on the screen, but some were pushed off screen instead of into a stable, the game doesn't move on. I suggest that if the last of the row of walking corpses is at the screen edge, they don't get pushed but still get stunned.
Actually, this is a known issue, but it'd be quite hard to fix it. As a temporary solution, I added a warning not to push the zombies off map.
Chaos in the city: Had to play it through three times because the nagas and saurians shifting around was totally unexpected and made it impossible to win without knowing beforehand that it was going to happen. Perhaps if they were not moved so much or if there was warning given of this it would not be such an unescapable trap.
Yep, I suspected that this will be among the first issues brought up :wink: I'll try to merge a warning into the dialogue somehow.
Merlyn: on the first turn I put Basyl in a village a little ways away from my keep and he was teleported into the town, at which point I had to move him to the tunnel and back again to trigger the events in the right order.
Stupid lipk! Stupid lipk! Stupid lipk! It's caused by some temporary debugging code which I forgot to delete (although I even marked it with a big blue TO BE REMOVED comment). I'm going publish an update asap, this really needs to be fixed.

All suggested text changes are applied, except for...
Danse Macabre should be Dance Macabre
Because that's completely correct, it's just in French ^_^
Didn't have any problem figuring out which house Merlin was in or which room Bruggwy was hiding in, seemed pretty clear to me. Maybe you could make the puzzles harder on the higher levels.

Greatly enjoyed the campaign overall, although most of it was a bit easy for hard.
Well, the main problem here is that out of that almost half year of hard work there were exactly five minutes committed to differentiating difficulties. The main requirement before releasing 0.2.0 is actually to make difficulty levels distinguishable in a more sensible way than just increasing/decreasing starting gold by random amounts.

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lipk
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Re: The Devils Flute - version 0.1.1

Post by lipk »

Well, asap is right now. 0.1.2 is up.
Big Bold Warning: this update will break your savegames of scenario 3. You might either want to finish it before installing the new version, or restart the scenario and enjoy the nice new graphics.
Changes:

Code: Select all

* version 0.1.2:
	* added 'portrait' for all narrator messages in scenario 7
	* clipped scenario 4 map
	* fixed flooded terrain graphics in scenario 3
	* added translations folder
	* fixed "first unit moves to a fall forest" event terrain codes and edited dialogue in scenario 5
	* scenario 6 is lost if Basyl dies
	* added missing objective in scenario 6
	* fixed scenario 5 music
	* fixed typo in scenario 6
	* fixed typo in scenario 7
	* removed some code from scenario 7 which shouldn't have been there anyway
	* added a summary of the statements for the puzzles in scenario 2 and 7
	* added warning about toss bug in scenario 6
	* fixed grammatical issues in scenario 6, 7 and 10

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by lipk »

Released version 0.1.3
Most notable difference is that now you lose in scenario 7 if you kill the loyalist leader (the special flavor of that scenario is that you have to hold back the enemy without actually slaughtering them). Also, the intro animation in the last scenario got much better, if you have the saves, you're advised to watch it again :wink:

Next release will be hopefully 0.2.0, bringing well-balanced and clearly distinguishable difficulty levels.

Code: Select all

* version 0.1.3
	* removed unnecessary translatable marks from credit list, added 'many others...' entry
	* edited scenario 1 intro text
	* redesigned scenario 10 animation sequence
	* edited difficulty descriptions
	* added Nightmare difficulty
	* added turn limit for scenario 2
	* replaced all occurences of GOLD and TURNS by GOLD4 and TURNS4
	* scenario 6 is lost if you kill Patrick

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Elvish_Hunter
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

I playtested two days ago on 0.1.1; in the third scenario, I noticed a few things that may be improved:
1) In version 0.1.1, you added:

Code: Select all

* Dunduggwyn's house is now highlighted by a blinking image in scenario 3
I suggest, after that, using [item] or PLACE_IMAGE to place the “go here” sign on the Mage's house, to make it clearer
2) placing an overlay on the unit that picked the flute will be really useful; perhaps you can use MAKE_HERO
3) at the end of said scenario, Agent Jack appeared, but since the General in my case was already killed by the Nagas (well, the whole Loyalist side was wiped out by Nagas...), he ended up speaking to the void :mrgreen:
4) in all the scenarios that I played so far, the gold carryover yellow note is missing
So far, that's an interesting campaign, and I found especially funny Creona's dislike for grenades. :lol2:
Current maintainer of these add-ons:
1.14: The Sojournings of Grog, A Rough Life, The White Troll (co-author), Wesnoth Lua Pack
1.12: Children of Dragons

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by lipk »

I suggest, after that, using [item] or PLACE_IMAGE to place the “go here” sign on the Mage's house, to make it clearer
Honestly, I find that icon very ugly when put on a village, and I think it's absolutely clear now which house belongs to Dunduggwyn.
placing an overlay on the unit that picked the flute will be really useful; perhaps you can use MAKE_HERO
Definitely. That's something I should have done already, thanks.
at the end of said scenario, Agent Jack appeared, but since the General in my case was already killed by the Nagas (well, the whole Loyalist side was wiped out by Nagas...), he ended up speaking to the void
Hmmm... that's not supposed to happen (and never did for me). Could you send a replay, please?
in all the scenarios that I played so far, the gold carryover yellow note is missing
And will be missing in the remaining ones, too :) The percentages are quite intuitively chosen right now, the notes will be added once I've finalized carryovers in version 0.2.0

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Elvish_Hunter
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

lipk wrote:Quote:
at the end of said scenario, Agent Jack appeared, but since the General in my case was already killed by the Nagas (well, the whole Loyalist side was wiped out by Nagas...), he ended up speaking to the void

Hmmm... that's not supposed to happen (and never did for me). Could you send a replay, please?
Sure.
TDF-Chaos_in_Cyty_replay.gz
(59.74 KiB) Downloaded 175 times
My suggested solution will be to add both a passive_leader=yes in the [ai] tag, and a FORCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT macro. Unless you have any better proposal, of course. :)
Current maintainer of these add-ons:
1.14: The Sojournings of Grog, A Rough Life, The White Troll (co-author), Wesnoth Lua Pack
1.12: Children of Dragons

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by lipk »

Haha... poor Walter suddenly found himself sunken in the water, surrounded by angry nagas.
My suggested solution will be to add both a passive_leader=yes in the [ai] tag, and a FORCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT macro. Unless you have any better proposal, of course.
I don't. :)

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rmj
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by rmj »

Very entertaining.

Here are some suggestions for dialog changes:
Scenario 1:
"...lived a woman, Creona, by name. Having a strong, aggressive personality and an unwillingness to be subject to anyone, she had few friends."

"Creona was an assassin. She didn't have an easy start in this masculine profession, but with success she received widespread fame. In less than two years she earned the title, 'Queen of the Assassins'. She also got the Wesnothian King to lay one of the greatest bounties ever seen on her head."

Scenario 2--Anyguest:
"Her team weakened by the difficult fight against the lich's minions and with another tough fight expected to get the flute, Creona decided to find some new recruits. Luckily, she didn't have to go far. Anyguest's Inn stood on the road to their destination; it was a well-known meeting point of rogues, thieves, bandits--in a word, those who were in conflict with the law. Creona sent Basyl and most of her men ahead to scout Cyty, and then entered the inn."

"Hi all! I need some brave men for a really, really dangerous mission!"

"Well, everybody's free to choose who to contract with. As for me, I'm getting 650 gold for this job."

"Hey, it's not over yet! You have to kill him."
my authentic customers --> my actual customers
"Well, who are your customers?"
He can hide nowhere here --> He can't hide here
I heard a slam of door --> I heard a door slam
I could have made good use of him
You're performing amazingly --> You performed amazingly
But now we'll do anyway --> But we'll do so anyway


Scenario 3--Cyty:

Dialog:
"With your excuse, I've already prepared everything." -->I've already prepared everything, if you approve.

"I listen" --> I will listen
"I couldn't muffle the bombs so this will wake the city militia."
fool as a compensation. He makes for an excellent slave -->fool as compensation. He will make an excellent slave


Here are some issues with Scenario 3:

The fence near the saurians changes shape when flood hits.

Objectives change. This has already been mentioned and you said something to the effect that it is obvious that the scenario would not end because there are so many turns left. There are many mainline scenarios which can be completed with many turns remaining. I intentionally put my units in poor positions to gain XP because I thought when I killed the mage, the scenario would be over.

When you start, your income increases when you capture villages, but at least by turn 8 capturing or losing villages does not change the income.

"wild waves ... it collapses!" Did anything happen? Perhaps add a sound effect?

Not clear that the unit who picks up the flute need not escape. Or does he? I think it would be better to just say "we got the flute" after the mage is killed.

The comment on the end of flooding is unclear. It seems only part of the west bank is no longer flooding. And you might consider reducing the rate of flooding to one instead of two hexes around this time. I don't know how Basyl escaped when he was inundated and nagas were about.

Basyl (and Creona?) can be killed; no defeat because event name is last_breath; need a space
instead of the underline.

Thanks for a good campaign.
rmj

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by lipk »

Thank you for the long a detailed review :)
I'll look into the dialog suggestions later, concerning the others:
The fence near the saurians changes shape when flood hits.
This is the "normal" behavior for the fence, something which is hard to change, hard to notice and hard to get annoyed about :) So yes, the issue is real but doesn't worth to be solved.
Objectives change. This has already been mentioned and you said something to the effect that it is obvious that the scenario would not end because there are so many turns left. There are many mainline scenarios which can be completed with many turns remaining. I intentionally put my units in poor positions to gain XP because I thought when I killed the mage, the scenario would be over.
Well, if it's really a problem for several players, I give in. I'm going to add some anticipations in the next release.
When you start, your income increases when you capture villages, but at least by turn 8 capturing or losing villages does not change the income.
It's time to familiarize yourself with Wesnoth's income calculation :P Every village provides an x gold every turn and supports one unit. Supporting means you have to play one less gold after that unit. In this scenario, x is set to zero, so your income can increase only to the point where all of your units are fully supported by villages.
"wild waves ... it collapses!" Did anything happen? Perhaps add a sound effect?
Hmmm... you mean the wall didn't actually collapse for you or it wasn't obvious enough?
Not clear that the unit who picks up the flute need not escape. Or does he? I think it would be better to just say "we got the flute" after the mage is killed.
Three units must escape in order to win the scenario: Creona, Basyl and the one with the flute. If you could finish without saving that unit, that's yet another bug.
The comment on the end of flooding is unclear. It seems only part of the west bank is no longer flooding. And you might consider reducing the rate of flooding to one instead of two hexes around this time. I don't know how Basyl escaped when he was inundated and nagas were about.
I'm working on balancing scenario 3 right now, I'll think about that. Although the nagas are supposed to be defeated by that time :)
Basyl (and Creona?) can be killed; no defeat because event name is last_breath; need a space
instead of the underline.
Oops, thanks. Will be fixed.

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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by mattsc »

lipk wrote:
Objectives change. This has already been mentioned and you said something to the effect that it is obvious that the scenario would not end because there are so many turns left. There are many mainline scenarios which can be completed with many turns remaining. I intentionally put my units in poor positions to gain XP because I thought when I killed the mage, the scenario would be over.
Well, if it's really a problem for several players, I give in. I'm going to add some anticipations in the next release.
I haven't played Devil's Flute yet (it's on my list) but a general comment on this: Personally, I like scenarios in which the objectives change, as is obvious to those who've played my campaigns. However, if possible I prefer to avoid situations like the one rmj got himself into. He was using what I'd consider a smart strategy and that got him in trouble later for something unexpected happening. How about you give the player a tighter turn limit until the first objective is fulfilled, and extend it when it changes?

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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by AlaskanAvenger »

mattsc wrote: I haven't played Devil's Flute yet (it's on my list) but a general comment on this: Personally, I like scenarios in which the objectives change, as is obvious to those who've played my campaigns. However, if possible I prefer to avoid situations like the one rmj got himself into. He was using what I'd consider a smart strategy and that got him in trouble later for something unexpected happening. How about you give the player a tighter turn limit until the first objective is fulfilled, and extend it when it changes?
I enjoy objective changes too, but the current problem is that enemy chiefs are twice moved between you and the exit without warning making inescapable traps with the correct conditions, which is not supposed to happen to a careful player.

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by lipk »

How about you give the player a tighter turn limit until the first objective is fulfilled, and extend it when it changes?
I'm not sure how is that supposed to improve things... in fact, players would be more confident that the scenario is about to end, and the surprise would be even bigger :wink:

I think the best solution would be adding a dialogue in which Creona warns her team that the nagas are likely to intrude into the inner city when the waves reach it (maybe even the precise location could be specified for lower difficulties). After that, a little threatening phrase by the saurian leader would make his intentions pretty clear.

Btw, there's supposed to be a warning: Basyl says "After that, our naga mercenaries can easily control the territory." while sketching his plan. Of course, this is such a minor and vague reference that even I forgot about it :lol2:

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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by mattsc »

lipk wrote:I'm not sure how is that supposed to improve things... in fact, players would be more confident that the scenario is about to end, and the surprise would be even bigger :wink:
I guess that's because I didn't actually play the campaign yet. I thought the problem was people running out of time. Never mind then... :doh:

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rmj
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by rmj »

It's time to familiarize yourself with Wesnoth's income calculation :P Every village provides an x gold every turn and supports one unit. Supporting means you have to play one less gold after that unit. In this scenario, x is set to zero, so your income can increase only to the point where all of your units are fully supported by villages.
The problem is that this is unexpected. The first time I played this scenario I did significant village grabbing, and it wasn't until the flooding that I was wondering why I was receiving so little income.
Hmmm... you mean the wall didn't actually collapse for you or it wasn't obvious enough?
I might have seen part of a keep get submerged. I expected the bridge to collapse. If I remember correctly, the ends of the bridge turn up missing later.
Three units must escape in order to win the scenario: Creona, Basyl and the one with the flute. If you could finish without saving that unit, that's yet another bug.
I don't remember who took the flute, and if there was some to way to determine who has the flute, it isn't obvious.
rmj

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.3

Post by lipk »

The problem is that this is unexpected. The first time I played this scenario I did significant village grabbing, and it wasn't until the flooding that I was wondering why I was receiving so little income.
Hmmm... you have a point there, it's an unusual setup. I'm going to add a note to the objectives.
I might have seen part of a keep get submerged. I expected the bridge to collapse. If I remember correctly, the ends of the bridge turn up missing later.
:hmm: Forgive me, I still don't get what's exactly the problem there.
I don't remember who took the flute, and if there was some to way to determine who has the flute, it isn't obvious.
Unfortunately, there's currently no way. This's been already mentioned (by Elvish_Hunter, see above), will be fixed. But it should be entirely obvious that you have to save that unit; it's a scenario objective.

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