Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
Pentarctagon
Project Manager
Posts: 4367
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Pentarctagon »

but then what happens when your opponent isn't incompetant :P ?
Last edited by Pentarctagon on July 22nd, 2009, 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by thespaceinvader »

That's the point of the quotation...
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Project Manager
Posts: 4367
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Pentarctagon »

oh. guess i misinterpreted it then :oops: .
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by thespaceinvader »

If you bet on your opponent being incompetent and he isn't, you lose. If you bet on him being incompetent, and he is, you win. If you bet on him being competent and act accordingly, your victory is more likely, even though it might take longer... If he's useless, you can adapt later ;)
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
ParadiseCity
Posts: 119
Joined: May 24th, 2009, 3:51 pm
Location: I'm not sure yet...

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by ParadiseCity »

donkey_trash_noob wrote:The strategy of blitzkrieg is multi-faceted. It is not composed of village stealing. It is not composed of leader rushing. There are many, many ways to do blitzkrieg.
Well just like any wesnoth strategy you need to be able to adapt when blitzing. :wink:
"The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Project Manager
Posts: 4367
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Pentarctagon »

paradise, you forgot the quotes around the name, it should be [quote="donkey_noob_trash"]

also, blitzing is not particularly adaptive: if it doesn't work well, you just wasted a bunch of gold on scout units. if it fails badly, then you have basically lost the game.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Turuk »

Pentarctagon wrote:paradise, you forgot the quotes around the name, it should be
donkey_noob_trash wrote:
Looks fine to me. ;)
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

User avatar
ParadiseCity
Posts: 119
Joined: May 24th, 2009, 3:51 pm
Location: I'm not sure yet...

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by ParadiseCity »

Lol thanks, forgot to fix that :D
Pentarctagon wrote:also, blitzing is not particularly adaptive: if it doesn't work well, you just wasted a bunch of gold on scout units. if it fails badly, then you have basically lost the game.
Well utterly simplified, yes, that is what would happen. If you say it like that, any game is not particularly adaptive. In a wesnoth game, if your attack fails you waste gold, and if using most of your units in an attack, you lose the game. But wesnoth does require adapting, if in smaller ways. These are the things like where you attack, who you attack, and what villages you take. The advantage of blitzing, due to good movement units, is that you can adapt these aspects of your attack very easily.

*Editted for clarity*
"The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Project Manager
Posts: 4367
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Pentarctagon »

well, as i understand blitzkrieg, you make mostly/all fast moving units for the purpose of catching the enemy off-guard forcing them fight at times/places that are unfavorable to them and also using the extra movement to steal villages to reduce their income. what happens if that doesn't work? you now have a bunch of semi-expensive units that cost more gold than a unit that would be better-suited to actual combat. a wolf rider, for example, costs 17 gold, while an orc grunt costs 12 and a troll whelp costs 13. what i meant was that it is unadaptive simply because you have all the same type of unit, with the only bonus being, "Hey, I got more mp :P ".
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
ParadiseCity
Posts: 119
Joined: May 24th, 2009, 3:51 pm
Location: I'm not sure yet...

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by ParadiseCity »

Pentarctagon wrote:what happens if that doesn't work? you now have a bunch of semi-expensive units that cost more gold than a unit that would be better-suited to actual combat
Well....thats why you dont fail :P . But yes, that is a huge disadvantage of blitzing, and the reason i choose not to use it that much.

Sorry that i misinterpreted your statement about being unadaptible, it is true that you do not have a huge choice in units a lot of the time. However, factions vary(such as the high mp drakes and saurians vs wolf rider spam).
"The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -Thomas Jefferson

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Caphriel »

Having a few scouts around means you just have to make them pay off, either by stealing some villages, or by taking advantage of their high MP to apply concentrated force toward getting some early kills. Blitzing is, in my opinion, all about starting something before the game settles down to the normal lines of units and ToD-driven back-and-forth action. It's about being in position to exploit common weakness of first recruit and village grabbing patterns that favor speed over security. If you recruit a bunch of scouts, and don't do anything with them, your blitz has failed and you're in a weak position :(

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Project Manager
Posts: 4367
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Pentarctagon »

one thing that i have noticed is that unless your blitz is very successful, it is hard to get it to pay off in the long run. sure, you may get a couple extra villages right away, but then you are trying to hold villages with wolf riders/footpads against spearmen/elvish fighters, both of whom cost the same/less but deal significantly more damage as well as having a ranged attack. a blitz would be particularly hard to hold against northerners, given that their units costs even less.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by silent »

This is purely in theory but...

I'd say that if you did have a failed blitz and had left over several scout units, the way I feel that would be best to make them pay off their cost would be to use them as you would drakes, have them converge from far away into one area where your opponent is striking to even out numbers and turn the tide of battle your way. (I say this since most 1vs1 maps are treated as 2 sided e.g weldyn channel)

Just an idea.

fareley
Posts: 66
Joined: September 10th, 2008, 5:45 pm

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by fareley »

well if you are playing undead and got some bats nothing is over yet even if you may not get any enemy's village/an early kill
i think bats are perfect to swarm and kill a mage (especially at night) and don't cost gold each turn
so even if you did get many scouts it's not all over yet :P

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Project Manager
Posts: 4367
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

Post by Pentarctagon »

while bat spam can be effective, there are so many ways to counter it that winning solely or almost solely with bats would be a rare event.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

Post Reply