Scenario Review: NR 4 - Clearing the Mines

[podbelski]

1.11.15, medium difficulty

I had almost 1000gp, but after watching Maiklas' replay lost all the interest... somehow it makes me bored - a ton of money and a ton of enemies. Btw I seriously think this 80% gold transfer between scenarios hurts the balance of the game. Make it 40%, and reduce AI gold accordingly

so I'm leaving this campaign, going for Son of the Black Eye which I know is great

[Turuk]

1.11.15, medium difficulty

I had almost 1000gp, but after watching Maiklas' replay lost all the interest... somehow it makes me bored - a ton of money and a ton of enemies. Btw I seriously think this 80% gold transfer between scenarios hurts the balance of the game. Make it 40%, and reduce AI gold accordingly

so I'm leaving this campaign, going for Son of the Black Eye which I know is great

Sad to hear that it burned you out podbelski, though you are certainly not the first that's been bored by the massive battles and tedious turns waiting for AI moves. I have just started working to revamp NR to change that flaw, so in the future the campaign should have a different feel that will hopefully draw you back.

[podbelski]

I'm sure the NR has a good potential, and I'm looking forward to play the redesigned version in the future

[dabber]

Hey, don't go changing Northern Rebirth to remove the massive battles! The huge battles are what make the campaign interesting. Yes, there are people that don't like them (which I understand - I still haven't finished the final battle), but no other campaign offers what current NR does.

[Turuk]

Hey, don't go changing Northern Rebirth to remove the massive battles! The huge battles are what make the campaign interesting. Yes, there are people that don't like them (which I understand - I still haven't finished the final battle), but no other campaign offers what current NR does.

It won't completely remove a few larger battles, but it will make the campaign more interesting than who can invest the most time in watching their elite army slaughter it's way through a horde. Some of this will be done through reduced battle size, some through reworking to require greater tactical challenges of the player beyond recalling all their units.

[shadow12]

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, 1.0.4
Finished turn 41/75 with 1220 gold
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 7.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? "Clear the mines" means "Defeat all enemy leaders."

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? The story about Tallin is interesting. Malifor attempted to swing Tallin over to the dark side.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
In-game surprise:

Spoiler:

The ghouls and nechrophages on turn 21! I noticed the river turn into marshes, but I didn't see that one coming. At first I felt overwhelmed. But after fighting a little and making progress, things started to turn around.

Thankfully, Tallin was in the NW castle by then so he could recruit near the marshes, and there were a lot of villages close.

I had another team in the west not doing so well, turning green with poison (not envy). They retreated south to find villages, but eventually joined the fighting again.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I enjoyed everything about it! I believe this scenario is designed to level up troops. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy defeating the ghouls.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Good as is!

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? Nope.

Edit: for the record, I like big fights, too.

[BillytheBabyGoat]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

1. Nightmare.

2. 10

3. Crystal.

4. Interesting enough.

5. Staying within the turn limit, dealing with the leveled ghasts, taking down Malifor without getting slaughtered (He can wipe out full health Archmage very easily), not going completely negative on gold.

6. 10

7. None; the challenge was very high, but with the breather scenario right before it was manageable. Took heavy casualties but made it out with multiple dwarven lords and with loyal units alive and max leveled (Zlex became a Royal Guard) so worked out well enough.

8. Many. Had to restart the first time the necrophage swarm showed up when they killed... everyone, then several more times trying to take out Malifor. He refused to leave his castle without some good bait, so I let him hit an "alone" steelclad, then swarmed him. Had to reload twice on him from trying to use max level full HP Cameron to take him out and being killed by retaliation before I switched to using the steelclad, which miraculously did not die.

[Thrash]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Normal with more gold than I can spend. (And I've got 4000+ for the next scenario.)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3 due to leaders rushing out.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Killing the lich without losing important units.

I finished before the ghouls arrived. That would have been a nasty surprise as I was in no bad position to deal with them. Not sure if I would have survived. Seems fairly insane frankly.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3, the basic undead, underground slog. The wide open terrain is somewhat interesting.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Maybe have some ghouls appear randomly sooner to both spice up the early rounds and give the player some warning.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

[Konrad2]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.14.1, Nightmare

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4-6 due to grinding through the skeletons

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Killing the lich without losing important units. (Being somewhat warned of the ghouls helps.)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7, I liked the terrain. My perceptions might be skewed because I like the changes.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Stupid decisions like not protecting leaders.

[MrTic]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear as day.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear except the Lich proposing you to join him was unexpected and weird.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The Ghouls/Necrophages of course.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Reduce the number of enemies, including Necrophages, on the easiest difficulty.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope. But that's only because I've read about the swamp spawns beforehand so I could prepare accordingly.

Btw, Woodmen are good in swamps (50% def.rating) and they serve as nice fodder - there aren't enough villages around to heal the poisoned units all the time.

[LordWolfDan]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Nice. Now that I fight undead, I don't think Malifor's the main villain of the campaign, but having to fight him for the good is welcome. Also, does anyone else notice "Hobbit" Easter Egg?! One of draugs named Thorin?!

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Lots and lots of undead that is

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I can't think of any

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No

[Tom_Of_Wesnoth]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.15.2.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6 without the ghoul surprise, 8 with.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Ehhh. There's a lich living here, kill him. It's okay, just dull.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The bottlenecks at the start. I rushed as far forward as I could early on to try to avoid the worst of it, but it still devolved into a bloody slog through tiny spaces for a long time. Once I broke through, though, it was plain sailing until...

The surprise when twenty ghouls spawn in out of nowhere! Like... Mate. No.

I was advancing through that area at the time, and my lines got completely blindsided by the ghouls out of nowhere. Without any healers, and barely any nearby villages, the ghouls took a while to effectively clear out, and I had to spend several turns healing after that.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4. The plot is basic. The gameplay is mostly just fighting through a brutal bottleneck that takes a long time to make any progress through, and a nasty tomato surprise after that.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The bottleneck is part of this scenario's identity, so I won't say to remove that. The tomato surprise with the ghouls could use some foreshadowing a few turns in advance, and a couple of extra villages near there would make healing up after beating them go by faster.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

[devavrata]

Will write full feedback later. For now, I just want to register that I deeply disagree with the walkthrough: "Dwarfs are probably the best units in your army, *especially* against skeletons". Are you kidding me?
-Skeletons have 60% bonus against piercing and cold attacks - forget about Thunderers.
-Skeletons have 40% bonus against blade attacks - forget about Scouts as well.
-Skeletons have -20% bonus against impact attacks - alright, Fighters come in handy.
So, you can recruit only three types of dwarves, and the only ones worth recruiting against skeletons are the Fighters.

But wait, don't you have better options? Of course you do. Maybe in other campaign you would have no alternative but to recruit Fighters - say, some alliance of dwarves with elves, where most elves have only piercing and blade attacks. But in this campaign, you get Footpads and Thugs. They are quicker than Dwarves, they get better defense bonus, and Footpads get a ranged impact attack too!

No, my dear, dwarves are not the best units against skeletons - Tallin's men are.