Northern Rebirth Remake

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » November 21st, 2010, 1:06 pm

This is a feedback thread for Northern Rebirth Remake campaign
Unofficial fork of Northern Rebirth

Purpose of the project:
Complete so called evil branch of a campaign.
Fix an issues that can be produced by unusual gameplay style.
Improve campaign mechanic.
Reduce number of fielded units at beginning of a campaign. (Make it less tedious).

For who:
Those that:
  • Like darker themed campaign like DiD
    Like Northern Rebirth much and want to play it in extraordinary way. With so called challenges.
    Didn't like Northern Rebirth because of large scale battles. Alternate branch has only two levels involving huge armies and number of units has been significantly reduced at beginning of the campaign.
    Want to see original concept of campaign preserved rather than removed. Like easiest difficulty level in Wesnoth 1.13.
List of challenges (Producing unwanted side effects in mainline Northern Rebirth):
Questions (Revised main branch levels):
List of revised levels:
  • 1. What difficulty level did you play? (Easy/Normal/Hard/Nightmare) Starting gold, Turns to complete

    2. Does objectives of the scenario are clear? (If not, describe a problem.)

    3. How difficult did you find the scenario or main branch? (1-10)

    4. How fun do you think the scenario or main branch is? (1-10)

    5. Did you triggered any unexpected event that caused you to admit defeat and reload or restart scenario?

    6. What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

    7. Do you have any additional comments?
Questions (Levels from new branch):
  • 1. What difficulty level did you play? (Easy/Normal/Hard/Nightmare) Starting gold, Turns to complete

    2. Does objectives of the scenario are clear? (If not, describe a problem.)

    3. How difficult did you find the scenario or new branch? (1-10)

    4. How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and story line of the scenario or new branch? (1-10)

    5. How fun do you think the scenario or new branch is? (1-10)

    6. Did you triggered any unexpected event that caused you to admit defeat and reload or restart scenario?

    7. What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

    8. Do you have any additional comments?
Current release 1.2.9 (Final)
Published on: 2016-05-03
Purpose of release:
Important bug fixes and some corrections. Enjoy!
Note:
This version is considered final, there are no further changes planned except for small balance modifications and eventual bug fixes. Recommended game version (1.12).
Campaign is not available for 1.13 due to a serious bugs in development version of the game. Namely game fail to store arrays. Though this is not the only issue with it this one is critical for campaign to function.
Also 1.2.7a is the last one for Wesnoth 1.10. It will receive only bug fixes and code updates if necessary because old version of the game doesn't support current windows version 8 and 10 which makes it even less attractive for maintenance.
Of course translation of the campaign is appreciated:
Update is mandatory due to nasty bugs being fixed in both branches. Although it seems that no one ever encountered them since there is no word about it. :shock:
About versions:
New branch details:
New branch count twelve levels total. Three of them are the same for both branches. (Clearing the Mines is actually skipped when playing optional branch)
Some consider design flaw of Northern Rebirth large armies used in many of its scenarios. Battles in 'evil' branch are much smaller. Only two last levels are similar in style to the rest of a campaign which will remind you that you are playing Northern Rebirth.
Differences in main branch:
Important:
If you are playing main branch and find any bugs post them in this thread not in official one, since this project has nothing to do with wesnoth development team. In fact Northern Rebirth has finally a maintainer who started to modify mainline version of campaign. Because of this Northern Rebirth Remake and Northern Rebirth will most probably became over time two entirely different campaigns sharing only a story and characters.

Almost complete list of modifications is available in changelog.
changelog.txt
Northern Rebirth Remake changelog
(29.62 KiB) Downloaded 234 times
Northern Rebirth alternate branch:
Last edited by Wesbane on January 17th, 2017, 7:45 am, edited 32 times in total.

gitanomad
Posts: 8
Joined: September 20th, 2008, 12:36 pm
Location: Ecuador

Re: Northern Rebitrth Remake

Post by gitanomad » November 25th, 2010, 2:11 pm

I'd just like to point out that it's difficult to find this forum due to the fact that its title is misspelled. It should be "Rebirth" not "Rebitrth". I've just recently started playing, so am unable to give feedback at this point, but thanks for your efforts!

User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2382
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by beetlenaut » November 28th, 2010, 9:33 am

The evil branch is being worked on in the development version. It's up to five scenarios now.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » November 28th, 2010, 3:46 pm

Really? Then I must have some outdated informations then.

Just to make sure we are writing about the same:

1. By development version you mean 1.9.x (Currently 1.9.2) – if so read below

2. By the fifth scenario in 'evil' branch you mean this cutscene where Tallin the wimp is instructed by the ghost of his friend that god themselves fixed the situation and now he can repay his deeds... Which actually do not count as scenario since it provides only informations for story. (It was deleted from this version what is pointed out in changelog)

3. Making any of situation described in announcement do not cause any bugs during main line version of the campaign (Like this one when supporter – an additional unit you start scenario with – dies early in infested caves Tallin is speaking to himself)

4. And last but not least. Informations that can be found in topics below are not valid any more:
Last edited by Wesbane on May 16th, 2012, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2382
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by beetlenaut » November 28th, 2010, 5:18 pm

I guess I'm the one who's confused. I remembered it being four, and I saw that it was five. I didn't load it, so I didn't realize the fifth was just a cutscene.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

Passer2010
Posts: 16
Joined: December 4th, 2010, 12:47 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Passer2010 » December 20th, 2010, 11:10 pm

1. What difficulty level did you play? (Easy/Normal/Hard/Nightmare)
Easy
2. How difficult did you find the scenario or new branch? (1-10)
6
3. How good did you find the story? (writing, style etc...) (1-10)
9
5. How do you like the scenario or this campaign? (1-10)
9
6. Do you have any additional comments?
There are too many bats in Song of Blood. By the way, will you let Tallin become death knight? I remember that he will become general in the mainline story.

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » December 21st, 2010, 10:19 am

Passer2010 wrote:There are too many bats in Song of Blood.
I'm really surprised that you complain only about this, but no worries. This scenario will be heavily revised. I planning to condense it. Reduce the map size about 30-40% and put more things into it. Only basic concept from original will be left as is. Actually mostly original map design will be left only in Hero is Dead and Friendship above all. Weight of Revenge I have already changed. However right now there will be no new releases since there are no known critical bugs that would make impossible to play campaign. Besides I don't want to annoy players putting just another little part of story.
Passer2010 wrote:By the way, will you let Tallin become death knight? I remember that he will become general in the mainline story.
I'm glad that you liked new story line, and concept of turning Tallin into undead fighter. Originally he was a Dark Adept. But answering for your question. Its already possible to play as a Death Knight. You see thing that I liked best in Northern Rebirth is fact that its *your hero*. You don't get some special leader unit, but regular unit and develop it in a way that fits best your gaming style.
So when Tallin falls under Malifors command his new type is based on who he was in his life. This is pretty much the same unit tree as for Peasant unit. Of course there is no Peasant like unit in Skeleton advancement tree so, if you don't earn any experience point with your character it will be converted to Skeleton. The point is that only level 3 melee fighting classes: Halberdiers and Royal Guards will be converted to Death Knight. However if you want to play as other type of undead you have to keep Tallin low at experience points or choose that type for him when he is alive like Bowman to get Skeleton Archer line. To make it clear if someone prefers fighting in first rank of his army wielding an axe or unleashing storm of arrows on his foes rather then supporting from second line why to take it away from him?

Thank you for your comment and interest!
Last edited by Wesbane on December 30th, 2010, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Passer2010
Posts: 16
Joined: December 4th, 2010, 12:47 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Passer2010 » December 21st, 2010, 1:56 pm

I forgot to tell a small problem. In Friendship above all, Zlex said that he see something purple so he thought that Tallin was there. I just want to point out that the clothes of Tallin's portrait is blue. And In weight of avenge, if we take one of Camerin's village, he would say something and then he can get some gold. But if I let the walking corpses of the dark adep take all of his village, nothing happened.
I also want to know if Zlex is still a peasant what will happen? A peasant leading a whole army will be funny. And why and how could Tallin summon the dead even after the destruction of Malifors? In addtion, did the undead he summon have free will or they were merely Tallin's puppet? By the way, when will you finish the campaign? I like palying undead campaign and I think the one you make is a good and special one since the main character of the other undead campaign I palyed before were all necromancers.

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » December 21st, 2010, 10:24 pm

Passer2010 wrote:In Friendship above all, Zlex said that he see something purple so he thought that Tallin was there. I just want to point out that the clothes of Tallin's portrait is blue.
Well this is because it use standard portrait, after all if we came into such a details Tallin portrait never changes despite of chosen type.
So this is not referring to his portrait but team colour which is purple while his units have teal like in main branch where his units are using red colour but he has a purple.
Passer2010 wrote:And In weight of avenge, if we take one of Camerin's village, he would say something and then he can get some gold. But if I let the walking corpses of the dark adept take all of his village, nothing happened.
Yes you are right about that. However this applies to entering specific area not villages. The reason for this is that this level was originally intended as something like Old Friend in main branch. Scenario in which you couldn't beat enemy. At current release I make only few changes to scenarios design. To make long story short its an old scenario with new story. However since it doesn't fit to the image of Tallin as a leader who can be cheated but not defeated this was already changed. And some warning was given to player what will happen if he will try to kill opposing leader and hint how to handle it. This event affects only player side since playing with ai as your ally is annoying enough experience without allowing it to trigger events. Consequence of that would be disastrous.
Passer2010 wrote:A peasant leading a whole army will be funny.
In this release its possible. However I consider it rather as designer flaw. Something I would call setting up the stage by player. As such this will not be the case in future. Zlex or any other zero level unit will be instantly promoted.
Passer2010 wrote:And why and how could Tallin summon the dead even after the destruction of Malifors? In addition, did the undead he summon have free will or they were merely Tallin's puppet?
Actually some clues about it are present in a story. However image might be a bit distorted since there are right now some gaps in it. Like we have informations about that Tallin is insane, but we can't experience that in Weight of Revenge. Instead of going into details and boring theory I will just refer to opening conversation in a Song scenario:
How Tallin can summon dead:
Do they have free will:
At current stage this has no much sense since this information isn't actually used in scenario. Its probably not an answer you have expected, but if it happens that I would complete this branch and after playing it you will still want to know all the boring stuff that pushed me to make things that way no other I will share it with you!

However if you like this kind of considerations here is a topic that you might find interesting.
Passer2010 wrote:By the way, when will you finish the campaign?
Its difficult to say since its still lot to do, and unfortunately this is not the only thing. So no I can't provide you with any schedule what will be released and when. However if I would feel that things will be delayed I might consider to make half release. After all since I'm not professional designer I can only hope that it will be soon and it will met your high expectations!
Last edited by Wesbane on May 16th, 2012, 7:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

Passer2010
Posts: 16
Joined: December 4th, 2010, 12:47 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Passer2010 » December 25th, 2010, 12:51 pm

I palyed the campaign again because I want to know whether the death of Zlex and Camerin will cause some difference or not. However, I found that expcet the change of enemy leaders, the dialogue was all the same. Well, I think things should not go like that since Zlex has special bond with Tallin and Camerin has his special personality. If the dialogue is all the same, it appears that Zlex and Camerin are only ordinary people. I think there could be something special because Zlex and Camerin can be not only ordinary loyal units but aslo hores in the story. If you think I have asked too, just ignore it. I just think I campaign would be better if you add this.
By the way, I remember the rod of justice was in one of Malifor's chamber. How did the dragon get it? And I noticed you changed the name of the scenarios. I'm confused with the name "weight of revenge". Who revenge for who?

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » December 30th, 2010, 4:43 pm

Passer2010 wrote:I found that except the change of enemy leaders, the dialogue was all the same. [...] I think there could be something special because Zlex and Camerin can be not only ordinary loyal units but also heroes in the story.
There are several reasons for that. One is that special units we can group in three categories:
  • * Leaders (Units that have meaning for game itself like Conrad from HttT or Haldric from TRoW)
    * Heroes (Units player can't lose like Cylanna from DW or Darken Volk from DiD)
    * Characters (Units that have some impact on story like Burin the Lost from TroW or Camerin from NR)
Zlex do not match to any of the above. So approach that I used in Friendship is actually the same as it is in main branch.
In other words he is just a unit that plays a role of someone that Tallin knows. Additionally in Friendship scenario it provides important informations for story. - what is going on outside the tomb.
As for Camerin yes I agree that some lines should be different, and they are. In 1.0.3 version this is not present since its old version of scenario and Camerin do not speak too much.
Passer2010 wrote:I remember the rod of justice was in one of Malifor's chamber. How did the dragon get it?
To be more precise in one of abandoned tunnels. But since you seemed to be more interested in story then typical wesnoth players are then some details about it will be surely provided.
Passer2010 wrote:I'm confused with the name "weight of revenge". Who revenge for who?
I'm really against writing about story since if something is clear only for designer its badly designed... So if you think that this is not bright enough in old version you can try out new one of this scenario included in 1.0.4 with changed opening conversation that make this and some other aspects clearer. It just requires you to have a save before the beginning of a scenario.

Passer2010
Posts: 16
Joined: December 4th, 2010, 12:47 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Passer2010 » January 1st, 2011, 9:48 am

Weight of Revenge is very good now. However, when I load the last turn of Friendship above All in order to paly Weight of Revenge, I found a small problem. I killed Zlex by a soulless this time and, as usual, Tallin said, "You didn't... Rest in peace... Friend... I hope we will... Not meet again." Then, Zlex became a walking corpse. I guess he won't be able to rest in peace when he is a zombie.

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » January 1st, 2011, 8:28 pm

You evil, Tallin supposed to stay pure at heart! Bah he has no heart anyway... But you are right about it despite fact what we consider walking corpse is. This either shouldn't be possible or have consequence in game world.

You really made Tallin have changed!

Passer2010
Posts: 16
Joined: December 4th, 2010, 12:47 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Passer2010 » November 13th, 2011, 2:34 pm

Just finish Weight of Revenge and I'm glad that NRR is back. I have some feedback.

1. I just thought you would change the code to prevent Zlex to become a Zombie but your decision is much fun than that. However, I'm just confused about what Tallin really thought. (My English is not good enough.) Did he truly become a evil death knight or he was just too crazy to know what he did to Zlex.(Tallin laughed so many times just as a lunatic) And by the way, since Zlex is the chief corpse now, could get a loyal trait?

2. Since I can turn Zlex to Zombie, I just wonder if I can do it Camerin. But he just died when I killed him by Zlex. I guess maybe you have some plans for him.

3. The dark adapt didn't complain when I robber his village. I remember he would (and I think it was a fun conversation.)

4. I don't know why but I can't recruit ghost and ghoul at the beginning of Song of Blood. I remember I could do it before.

5. I didn't know there is a skeleton that I can raise in Here is Dead. I found it this time and I just think maybe you can give it a name (I name it "the Betrayed" due to what Tallin siad) or a loyal trait since it is not easy to get.

Good work.

User avatar
Wesbane
Posts: 132
Joined: September 21st, 2010, 8:02 am
Location: Plane of Sorrows

Re: Northern Rebirth Remake

Post by Wesbane » November 24th, 2011, 3:43 pm

Passer2010 wrote:I just thought you would change the code to prevent Zlex to become a Zombie but your decision is much more fun than that.
Not for Zlex. :twisted:
Passer2010 wrote:I'm just confused about what Tallin really thought.
Tallin is pretty aware what he is doing although he is insane. This aspect is also reflected in his theories. That his former allies are thiefs and cheaters who robbed him from his dreams and death. He is losing contact with reality. This is consistent with how undead characters are described in other wesnoth campaigns in general. All of this characters are hardly normal. Some hints about this process are given later in the story.
Passer2010 wrote:And by the way, since Zlex is the chief corpse now, could he get a loyal trait?
There is really no reason for any extra abilities of this unit. It is an ordinary corpse animated by dark powers. Do not take to literally what characters are saying. Sometimes this are just comments on how things are going.
Passer2010 wrote:Since I can turn Zlex to Zombie, I just wonder if I can do it Camerin. But he just died when I killed him by Zlex. I guess maybe you have some plans for him.

There are no other consequence of killing him then those mentioned in scenario objectives.
Passer2010 wrote:The dark adapt didn't complain when I robber his village. I remember he would (and I think it was a fun conversation.)
This event exist it is due to a bug in scenario so thanks for reporting. It is just $ missing. That is why Adept do not complain if grabbed village is not first one on his ownership list. However it will not be fixed before next release.
On a side note this conversation with only one line changed is a part of mainline Northern Rebirth so happy to hear that you like it.
Passer2010 wrote:I don't know why but I can't recruit ghost and ghoul at the beginning of Song of Blood. I remember I could do it before.
It was never possible to recruit ghosts in this scenario. Ghouls were removed from recruit list. Probably I should mention this in changelog to avoid confusion.
Passer2010 wrote:I didn't know there is a skeleton that I can raise in Hero is Dead. I found it this time and I just think maybe you can give it a name (I name it "the Betrayed" due to what Tallin said) or a loyal trait since it is not easy to get.
Well its rather balancing feature than reward for map exploration. Some things are easier to achieve with different type of units. With death blade it is harder to beat this level but easier to get that unit. Despite of that I will consider making it loyal if it will not make game to easy.
Last edited by Wesbane on March 23rd, 2012, 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply