Need Some Creative Minds

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
LordAwsomeness
Posts: 59
Joined: August 12th, 2013, 2:20 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Need Some Creative Minds

Post by LordAwsomeness » June 8th, 2018, 12:11 am

Greetings! I am currently working on a scenario that is a dungeon crawler (LordAwsomeness Dungeon Master) where 4 heroes are pitted up against 1 player who is the dungeon master. Currently I am making changes to the initial hero creation by adding more meaningful choices according to what options you select during the beginning of the process. However I have come to a point where I need some creative minds to help me further the character development. In this spoiler section below, you will find my future plans and if you choose to look, I would greatly appreciate some insight and new ideas.
Spoiler:
- Been playing Wesnoth since 2004 and the 1.0.x versions.
- Creator of Undead Invasion MP Scenario Pack.
- Creator of Valeria MP Adventure

Can-ned_Food
Posts: 201
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by Can-ned_Food » June 9th, 2018, 2:40 am

What is the theme of your setting? Dungeon Master?

Anyways … I seriously could produce with 7 different worlds of 6 bloodlines each — vis à vis 42 distinct bloodlines. How would you like me to filter them?

User avatar
Seijo-ki
Posts: 9
Joined: May 10th, 2018, 6:19 pm

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by Seijo-ki » June 16th, 2018, 8:26 am

Just out of my head, I have some ideas for the bloodlines (I don't give them names though):

War/Warlust - Having more attack, but a less effective defense
Blood - Having steadfast(gaining max life points after killing) and regeneration, but having less life points to begin with, less defenses against arcane and fire, and less movement points.
Guardian - Having better defenses, but less movement points and bad against piercing weaponry, as well as cold.

(keep in mind that these are only suggestions, you can use them and change them as you wish)

User avatar
Zhou
Posts: 10
Joined: March 26th, 2018, 3:56 pm

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by Zhou » June 18th, 2018, 12:37 pm

How different are these bloodlines (Pantheons?) supposed to be? Just minor bonuses/penalties to some stats (like e.g. the different civs in the Civilization games) or actual different unit that all use the same underlying mechanics (like different classes in RPGs)? You could go even crazier and have different mechanics for all of them (like a lot of RTS games e.g. Starcraft/Warcraft 3 etc. have with their races). How far do you wanna go?
slightly confused

User avatar
LordAwsomeness
Posts: 59
Joined: August 12th, 2013, 2:20 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by LordAwsomeness » July 26th, 2018, 7:19 pm

Can-ned_Food wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 2:40 am
What is the theme of your setting? Dungeon Master?

Anyways … I seriously could produce with 7 different worlds of 6 bloodlines each — vis à vis 42 distinct bloodlines. How would you like me to filter them?
Wow I did not receive a notification for this. But anything that could be attributed to giving buffs for the heroes would be nice :)
- Been playing Wesnoth since 2004 and the 1.0.x versions.
- Creator of Undead Invasion MP Scenario Pack.
- Creator of Valeria MP Adventure

User avatar
LordAwsomeness
Posts: 59
Joined: August 12th, 2013, 2:20 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by LordAwsomeness » July 26th, 2018, 7:21 pm

Seijo-ki wrote:
June 16th, 2018, 8:26 am
Just out of my head, I have some ideas for the bloodlines (I don't give them names though):

War/Warlust - Having more attack, but a less effective defense
Blood - Having steadfast(gaining max life points after killing) and regeneration, but having less life points to begin with, less defenses against arcane and fire, and less movement points.
Guardian - Having better defenses, but less movement points and bad against piercing weaponry, as well as cold.

(keep in mind that these are only suggestions, you can use them and change them as you wish)
very very interesting ideas! I have not actually decided how much of an impact I want these bloodlines to have on the gameplay because I am still deciding if I want to still hold different classes as well. the current system uses classes but I am struggling with deciding if I want to take them out since all they truly do at the moment is allow characters to basically select the weapons they start with :/
- Been playing Wesnoth since 2004 and the 1.0.x versions.
- Creator of Undead Invasion MP Scenario Pack.
- Creator of Valeria MP Adventure

User avatar
LordAwsomeness
Posts: 59
Joined: August 12th, 2013, 2:20 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by LordAwsomeness » July 26th, 2018, 7:24 pm

Zhou wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 12:37 pm
How different are these bloodlines (Pantheons?) supposed to be? Just minor bonuses/penalties to some stats (like e.g. the different civs in the Civilization games) or actual different unit that all use the same underlying mechanics (like different classes in RPGs)? You could go even crazier and have different mechanics for all of them (like a lot of RTS games e.g. Starcraft/Warcraft 3 etc. have with their races). How far do you wanna go?
I think I am aiming for just minor changes in penalties and such. it is much harder to balance major changes so that one option is not way overpowered
- Been playing Wesnoth since 2004 and the 1.0.x versions.
- Creator of Undead Invasion MP Scenario Pack.
- Creator of Valeria MP Adventure

Can-ned_Food
Posts: 201
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by Can-ned_Food » July 28th, 2018, 7:06 pm

You know that you can quote multiple answers in a single reply. :eng: Below the full message editor is a history of the thread; there, you can click the “quote” icon to insert a quote at the location of the cursor.

Anyways, on to my suggestions.
Know that these are flexible, and that I don't know much about how well the lists of specialities will fit in your dungeon. For one thing, all these expect that the characters are of the same race and have no other initial traits aside from small variations of health points, movement points, and attack damages.
To make these more diverse, not all of them have a strict formula of bonuses and debuffs.

An easy one …
  • Spirit of Earth
    +15% resist impact
    improved movement and defense on mountain, hill, and cavern tiles
    petrification: +10 heal, petrified for 1 turn
  • Spirit of Water
    +15% resist blade
    improved movement and defense on shallow water and on deep water tiles
    skirmisher variation: can pass through all enemies rather than around
  • Spirit of Heaven
    +10% resist arcane
    either:
    • certain impassable tiles, such as walls — not _off^_usr and such, — have movement cost set to half full movement
    • teleport to any tile in range of half full movement
    vision through — over, as it were — certain impassable tiles, such as walls
  • Spirit of Ice
    +20% resist cold
    -5% resist fire
    cold melee attack
  • Spirit of Air
    +15% resist pierce
    +5% resist blade
    improved defense on all tiles
    flight over unwalkable tiles
  • Spirit of Plasma
    +20% resist fire
    -5% resist cold
    fire melee attack
Please, don't say ‘animagi’ …
This scheme is the only one which also gives a detriment to each class.
Many of the abilities were prescribed to duplicate weapons possessed by the hero. This can, of course, be changed to attacks which are always available, or which replace or supercede any possible weapon in that class — e.g. melee blade.
  • Hog Totem
    perseverance: unfazed by Slow
    berserk
    -10% resist pierce
  • Crocodile Totem
    thrash: halve enemy strikes when attacking
    improved movement and defense on shallow water and on deep water tiles
    poor defender: strikes halved when defending against melee
  • Elephant Totem
    gore: if possessing a melee pierce weapon, duplicates that in a new attack which does 250%-1
    stomp: halve enemy melee strikes when defending
    trump: halve enemy ranged damage when attacking or defending
    -10% resist fire and cold
  • Falcon Totem
    escape: ends round of attack–counterattack if its health drops below 30%; does not apply if it attacks or defends when already less than that amount.
    vision farther than others and farther than its movement
    flight over unwalkable tiles
    least hitpoints of all Totems
  • Lion Totem
    daunt: first strike on all attacks
    ambush on grass tiles
    solitary hunter: damages are reduced by 40% if any ally is adjacent — like leadership in reverse.
  • Shark Totem
    rip: duplicates all melee blade attacks to a copy which:
    • only available during attack
    • does 1 strike
    • cancels any counterattack
    lorenzini: can sense enemies nearby and through walls, though only able to determine position and lvl of the enemy
    improved movement and defense on shallow water and on deep water tiles
    restless: no healing while stationary and unmolested by enemies
All the colors of the rainbow …
The colors here are, of course, cosmetic and thematic. You can easily make these simple Knight, Mage, Prince, et c.
  • Knight in Red
    stun
    something like steadfast
  • Mage in Orange
    ranged duplicate for every pierce, blade, and impact attack; ice for pierce, fire for blade, arcane for impact.
    healing and curing
  • Prince in Yellow
    clever: on attack, reduce defense of enemies by -10%
    leadership: +24% per level below, +12% for same level
  • Barbarian in Green
    attacks=2
    first strike
  • Rogue in Blue
    backstab
    ambush
  • Warlock in Violet
    summon minion for 1 turn; 1 turn cooldown
    dispel health: [heals]value=-N on enemies
Ancestor worship? …
  • Heir from Gergandon
    charge
    cautious: halve damages of self and enemy during defense
  • Heir from Telopeli
    plague of Ghosts — slain enemies become new lvl0 Ghosts with [variation] for all the undead_variation= types
    arcane melee
  • Heir from Ihcvens
    daze: every strike which hits reduces enemy's strikes by 1 for that round of combat
    reciprocation: enemies receive half damage for every strike of theirs which hits
  • Heir from Apdodumf
    tenacious: own defense increased to equal enemy defense during attack
    skirmisher
  • Heir from Yssthul
    intimidate: enemies of lower lvl attack with half strikes and defend with half damage
    accuracy: halves enemy defense during attack — maybe defense also
  • Heir from Riknowanz
    50% more gold earned
    25% less healing received

So … there you have four. Perhaps I will give three others if you want.

imlawli
Posts: 1
Joined: August 11th, 2018, 7:45 am

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by imlawli » August 11th, 2018, 7:50 am

LordAwsomeness wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 7:21 pm
Seijo-ki wrote:
June 16th, 2018, 8:26 am
Just out of my head, I have some ideas for the bloodlines (I don't give them names though):

War/Warlust - Having more attack, but a less effective defense
Blood - Having steadfast(gaining max life points after killing) and regeneration, but having less life points to begin with, less defenses against arcane and fire, and less movement points.
Guardian - Having better defenses, but less movement points and bad against piercing weaponry, as well as cold.

(keep in mind that these are only suggestions, you can use them and change them as you wish)
very very interesting ideas! I have not actually decided how much of an impact I want these bloodlines to have on the gameplay because I am still deciding if I want to still hold different classes as well. the current system uses classes but I am struggling with deciding if I want to take them out since all they truly do at the moment is allow characters to basically select the weapons they start with :/

I still think even if you implement a bloodline mechanic to your scenario you should keep classes, would make for more interesting interaction etc. Take having a "summoner" class with something like a "royal" bloodline meaning that your summons end up having higher base stats than those of another "summoner' with a different bloodline.

Can-ned_Food
Posts: 201
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by Can-ned_Food » August 13th, 2018, 3:19 am

LordAwsomeness wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 7:24 pm
Zhou wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 12:37 pm
How different are these bloodlines (Pantheons?) supposed to be? Just minor bonuses/penalties to some stats (like e.g. the different civs in the Civilization games) or actual different unit that all use the same underlying mechanics (like different classes in RPGs)? You could go even crazier and have different mechanics for all of them (like a lot of RTS games e.g. Starcraft/Warcraft 3 etc. have with their races). How far do you wanna go?
I think I am aiming for just minor changes in penalties and such. it is much harder to balance major changes so that one option is not way overpowered
I was thinking about this recently. Of course, most of my suggestions were rather more drastic that I suspect you would've wanted. Three of them are more like classes: paradigmic simplifications of skills and training.

Going off from what Imlawli said in the previous post, it seems like you want your bloodlines to be little more than traits. Agility, health and constitution, cleverness.
I never did ask, but I am unclear as to what exactly you mean by “debuffs”. What does your MP campaign have which functions as buffs?

User avatar
LordAwsomeness
Posts: 59
Joined: August 12th, 2013, 2:20 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Need Some Creative Minds

Post by LordAwsomeness » September 3rd, 2018, 8:55 pm

Thank you all for your suggestions. I know it has been a long time coming, but I have finally reached a point in the bugfixing and quality of life changes and additions to the scenario where I can finally take a look and see what I want to do with the bloodlines. So far I have 3 definitive bloodlines that I have already coded in:
  • Veromos - God of Vitality: Known for his powers of self regeneration, the descendants of Veromos rest heal even if they were in combat the previous turn as well as start with +1 hitpoint and gain +2 hitpoints per level.
  • Psamathe - God of Magic: Known for his immpecable magical prowess, the descendants of Psamathe gain 2 extra Magic Points upon an reaching max experience as well as starting with 10% less required experience to level up.
  • Ritesh - God of Riches: Known for his obsession with gold, the descendants of Ritesh start with an extra 25 gold and gain an extra 1 gold per kill. Side note: I may make the starting bonus gold only 10-15 if 25 appears to be too much.
Can-ned_Food wrote:
July 28th, 2018, 7:06 pm
I really liked your spirit resistance ideas but I do not think I should implement resistances in through the bloodlines because eventually I will add in armors and clothes for the heroes inventories and until I do that, I do not wish to mess with resistances and defense values too much. It is a very good idea that I believe I will try to implement more in the future, but until I reach the point of adding clothes and armors, I will probably just not even add these.
imlawli wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 7:50 am
don't worry, I decided not to remove the classes but rather rework the system completely, and now each race starts with their own unique classes! Soon I will try to implement skill trees for each class, but as is, I think that will be a bit down the road before those are added in.
Can-ned_Food wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 3:19 am
I was thinking about this recently. Of course, most of my suggestions were rather more drastic that I suspect you would've wanted. Three of them are more like classes: paradigmic simplifications of skills and training.

Going off from what Imlawli said in the previous post, it seems like you want your bloodlines to be little more than traits. Agility, health and constitution, cleverness.
I never did ask, but I am unclear as to what exactly you mean by “debuffs”. What does your MP campaign have which functions as buffs?
At the moment I have decided to forego any debuffs and just focus on implementing the buffs. As of right now the buffs will work like traits. They will not have too much of an impact on the gameplay, rather they will just serve as starting bonuses. However in the next map(s) that I make, I will make your bloodline choices directly impact the storyline as I have recently figured out how to filter units by traits they possess (spoiler alert: this will lead to very interesting conversations and option availabilities with npc's on the next map who share/worship the same deity as your hero).

I hope you all keep an eye out for the 0.2.0 update that I hope to release soon! It will have SO MANY changes to the game and I believe I have made over 2 dozen bugfixes and balance changes that better this project!
- Been playing Wesnoth since 2004 and the 1.0.x versions.
- Creator of Undead Invasion MP Scenario Pack.
- Creator of Valeria MP Adventure

Post Reply