Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Luke the Flaming
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Luke the Flaming »

That scenario has been redone, no more earthquakes (a weird curse will afflict the heroes instead).
But I am sure you'll find something irksome about that too... ;)
O, Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?

Konrad2
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Konrad2 »

FTR, I've given up on that scenario. Despite having a turn limit of 42* turns, you automatically lose around turn 30 because all of the floor breaks away.
*on the hard difficulty

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Luke the Flaming
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Luke the Flaming »

I have tested and won (on hard) that scenario multiple times (the time limit was there for the bonus gold, you had to move relentlessly eastward).
Anyway, it is totally different now.
O, Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?

Konrad2
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Konrad2 »

I know it's beatable, I've beaten it on 1.8 after all. I just really don't feel like trying again after playing for 30 turns, almost always standing with my back to the chasm, just to walk into a guaranteed defeat at the end.

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Luke the Flaming
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Luke the Flaming »

Understood.
People disliking the premise of the scenario is why I've redone it entirely. No more earthquakes, no more chasm. (Will some players dislike the new version even more? maybe... ;) )

While most stuff (dialogues included) is the same in the revised version (I am talikng about the whole campaign, not just this scenario), I hope you do not waste too much energy checking code that will be obsolete in a few weeks (hopefully).
O, Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?

Konrad2
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Konrad2 »

Guerrilla -> Guerilla
The Merfolk leader and the cavalery leader both have the same color.

The Great Battle
piety -> pity

Back at home
At the star -> start

The ruined Brightwood castle is using a ruined human castle instead of an elven castle.

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Luke the Flaming
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Luke the Flaming »

As I wrote earlier, I am unable to reproduce the colour issue. They all work perfectly for me, as expected (there are no duplicates in the same battle).

The Ruined Elven Castle was not available when I created the campaign (in fact, only the Human Castle had the ruined version for a long time, while I've seen there are several nowadays!). I'll gladly update it (as the typos / mistakes).

P.S. the dictionary tells me Guerilla is a variant of Guerrilla. ;)
O, Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?

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Adamant14
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Adamant14 »

Luke the Flaming wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 5:04 pm
As I wrote earlier, I am unable to reproduce the colour issue. They all work perfectly for me, as expected (there are no duplicates in the same battle).
@Luke the Flaming:
Here is a screenshot for you, to give you an idea of how it looks like to us.
The cavalry looks like green, instead of your custom gold.
I am on Windows 10, maybe that is a Windows problem?
Attachments
escape_wrong_color.PNG
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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Luke the Flaming
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Luke the Flaming »

Interesting theory... I am on Win 7.

I suppose you have the aforementioned file (with the default list of numbers and corresponding colors) data/core/team_colors.cfg (since it comes with Wesnoth)...
I am not sure what I can do about it if the issue is with Wesnoth or Windows. :?
O, Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?

white_haired_uncle
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Hmm.

I played a scenario recently, with me starting at the bottom a bit right of center, and merfolk allies near the center. Later in the scenario (I THINK it was around when I chose to continue to fight after defeating two of the enemy leaders, but don't quote me on that), some calary showed up in the SE. I remember it was a little confusing because the village colors for both the cavalry and the merfolk were orange. Windows 10, though I could also try Ubuntu if someone wanted to post a save.

Might be a clue here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=44930&start=255#p646826

denispir
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by denispir »

Konrad2 wrote:
November 29th, 2019, 4:55 pm
Adamant14 wrote:
November 29th, 2019, 4:31 pm
Are both instances wrong?
I think so.
"I laugh at your ridiculous accuses." -->
accusation(s)

"And your pathetic accuses are just an excuse to attack us and annex our lands to the barony of your boss, aren't they?" -->
I would rather use pathetic complaints : more or less synonym here in context, but fits better with pathetic, I guess (but english is a foreign lang for me).

denispir
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by denispir »

Luke the Flaming wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 4:43 pm
The penalty if an allied leader dies is like I told earlier (side 1/2 skips a turn, except the leader, when Ywen/Myriel dies).
(I read the post, on previous page IIRC, where you explain that better, namely the 1-turn "demoralisation".)

I think this is the opposite of what should be done. Penalties for players in a weaker situation (either less skilled, experienced, bad luck at key turn...), and bonuses for stronger ones, literally create "self-disregulating" games: a vicious circle where weaker situations automatically get worse, and conversely.

There are already several sources of vicious circles in Wesnoth, which are sources of power: the ratio of forces (gets worse with each death), gold transfer, gold bonus (both make stronger players even stronger), better control of space, gain or sparing of time (both due to stronger forces), maybe more... We don't need to introduce yet another disregulation factor! As another example, every magic item difficult to find or to reach is a game design error in my view: instead only players in bad situation (or playing at lower difficulty) should get such help.

A "good game" would do the opposite, leading to a self-regulating game: whenever you (the coder) can know that a player is in bad situation (eg here an ally dies), then compensate with a bonus of any kind. Conversely about players in an exagerately good situation.

Here, for instance: you could make the died ally soldiers join the player side. And if none or too few, then some small troop may arrive to help a few turns later (so that the cause=>effect in not that obvious). Or any other good idea fitting the story, rather than a gold boost: doing so is always good for the gameplay feeling I guess, and this may help and (re)launch story-teller imagination ;-) (for our great pleasure!).

denispir
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by denispir »

Luke the Flaming wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:28 pm
Interesting theory... I am on Win 7.

I suppose you have the aforementioned file (with the default list of numbers and corresponding colors) data/core/team_colors.cfg (since it comes with Wesnoth)...
I am not sure what I can do about it if the issue is with Wesnoth or Windows. :?
By me, under a Linux distribution with Wenoth 1.14.5, I can find in the said file the definition of gold:

Code: Select all

[color_range]
    id=gold
    rgb=FFF35A,FFF8D2,994F13,FFF35A
    name= _ "color^Gold"
[/color_range]
If the color (name) is defined and known to the engine, it should just work. Else players get a default color instead, according to side number. (Thus also: if ever you happen to attribute this very default color to another side, then 2 sides have the same color, and the engine does not care.) Which means that this color gold is certainly not defined or not found, or taken into account, by the engine.

I guess that in some situations it does not exist (but should), or is not found, or an older or different version of the file is used, so that players get a default color. For an unrelated reason (namely "impossible" "Unable to load scenario" errors that randomly happen and disappear by me), I suppose there may be some weird bug with file handling, choice, or finding...

PS: I have not reached this scenario yet, so cannot tell you what colors I get (with "gold" defined in the right file).

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Adamant14
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Adamant14 »

denispir wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 9:26 am

Code: Select all

[color_range]
    id=gold
    rgb=FFF35A,FFF8D2,994F13,FFF35A
    name= _ "color^Gold"
[/color_range]
Taken from OLY scenario 5.cfg :
color=808080,FFFFFF,000000,808080Does not work!

Taken from data/core/team-colors.cfg :
color=goldDoes work.

Also taken from data/core/team-colors.cfg :
color=FFF35A,FFF8D2,994F13,FFF35ADoes also work.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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Luke the Flaming
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Re: Our Longest Year (SP campaign with two playable sides)

Post by Luke the Flaming »

denispir wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 9:01 am
I think this is the opposite of what should be done. Penalties for players in a weaker situation (either less skilled, experienced, bad luck at key turn...), and bonuses for stronger ones, literally create "self-disregulating" games: a vicious circle where weaker situations automatically get worse, and conversely
We'll just disagree here.
If your actions have no (or little) consequences, then it is not a game. If you do poorly and get rewarded (or do well and get punished), the game itself pushes you towards an "average" chosen by the designer.

In scenario 3, I could simply reduce the Turn Limit by 1 and remove the penalty, but the (revised) version creates a better narrative (and tactical decisions based on how your allies are doing). If you prefer to control the allies (like Konrad2), you should be able to have them survive (or die exactly when you wish to minimize the impact on your side(s)).

In general (not just this campaign):
-) too many of your troops died and you are afraid that the next scenario will be too hard? restart the current scenario!
-) magic items in "unusual" place reward exploration (they are a little bonus, not needed to win and not able to trivialize the challenge if obtained);
-) it is a game with dice (RNG) and usually you are in the weaker position (to compensate the AI skills and to make the battles more challenging; albeit there are difficulties levels to help each of us find "how much challenging" suits our tastes). Sometimes you will play well and lose. And that's good! If you could not lose, it'd boring (and not a game).

The "avalanche" effect (do well and it'll be easier to do well or do poorly and you'll have a harder like) is tied to the "campaign" nature of Wesnoth.
If it bothers you that much, try more episodic games (e.g. a Wesnoth skirmish or whatever they are called nowadays).

denispir wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 9:26 am
I guess that in some situations it does not exist (but should), or is not found, or an older or different version of the file is used, so that players get a default color.
Maybe someone that has the team colours NOT working could try to copy & paste the definitions of the various team colours from "data/core/team_colors.cfg" to the"utils.cfg" of the campaign... I have no other idea about how to handle this issue. :?

Is it a known Wesnoth bug (that is, are they working to fix it in a future release)?

(Btw, as reported earlier, it is not just "gold"; all the colours definied by Wesnoth - e.g. brown, teal, etc. - seem to behave erratically for some players).
O, Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?

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