[Complete] BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

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stillskeen
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by stillskeen »

Here is just a thought, and although this may turn out to be wrong for reasons stated previously, but would it be possible for the website (brutalwesnoth.com) to set up a donations system to allow anyone in the community to give some money for a prize pool? (yes it will be smaller than the sponser, but at least there wont be a sponser).
Again just a thought, so please people if i am wrong about this dont go on about it.
Thank you for your time
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neki
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by neki »

Well, stilskeen, I am already paying money from my pocket for the webhosting and invested lots of time in developing this, so donations are opened for my voluntary effort even now on my website and on my YouTube channel. I am planning to use the money from donations to pay for the webhosting, but if the community agrees to your idea, I can give the money to the winner as a gift. I don't think 100$ or a small sum like that would raise any issues since there are only physical persons involved. I will just need to declare the "100$ income" for my taxes, but guess that wold be my personal problem. However, I have two questions regarding your idea:

1. I only received in total ( it's actually one :) )only 5 dollars from donations so far
2. How do you convince the developers to let us play our matches on the official Wesnoth server ?
Dave
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by Dave »

Neki,

Thank you for starting this initiative. It's always great to see projects sprout up around the Wesnoth platform. :)

As you know, Wesnoth is a Free/Libre Open Source Software. It was my hope, when I first developed it, that it might be proliferated far and wide, and put to many different uses, being enjoyed by many different people with a wide variety of tastes. So of course, I welcome those who wish to enjoy it in a "highly competitive" setting developing features that enable this.

However, I feel there is one problem with the growth of Wesnoth that I'm hoping that you can help with. Wesnoth's development has acquired a highly monolithic structure. Everyone looks to the core Wesnoth development team at wesnoth.org as being the "official" Wesnoth. Everything else is looked at with a slight air of disdain. Everyone who develops a campaign wants their campaign to be "official". Everyone who has new game play ideas wants their game play ideas to be made "official". Everyone who has an idea of how the Wesnoth multiplayer community to be run wants their idea to be "official".

I greatly appreciate the respect that you and others have for myself and the Wesnoth core developers. However, I don't think that "going official" is something that you should really aspire to. Worrying about "going official" only inspires group think. It encourages you to cater to something other than the core vision of your project.

The "Wesnoth core developers" already do a lot -- we develop the Wesnoth engine. The Wesnoth multiplayer server. The Wesnoth forums. We maintain loads and loads of gameplay content. A huge team of translators. This has left us with a huge sprawling project that covers many different areas and facets.

I don't think this is ideal. I think the reason most Open Source projects are successful is because they concentrate very narrowly on doing one thing very very well. Mozilla makes a web browser. They don't try going and making all the sites the web browser will run on. Linux makes an OS kernel. They don't make all the programs that will run on it.

Wesnoth is a large enough project to be quite bureaucratic at times. You don't want to subject your ideas to that if you can avoid it. :) You want to be nimble and agile and have your own project where you can do things your way.

Now this isn't to say that the Wesnoth development team would be hostile to your project or not help you at all. Just as application developers push back on kernel developers with feature requests and web developers ask Mozilla for improvements, you as one of Wesnoth's users are entitled to ask for improvements to the Wesnoth engine. It's especially helpful if you can submit a patch. I can see how, for instance, it is difficult to get exposure of your server if it's difficult to get to from within the game. So it might be nice to add a 'server list' feature in the engine which allows those who own servers to publish them somewhere. The Wesnoth engine could thus list the Brutal Wesnoth server as a server to join in a list.

I really think that Wesnoth has become too large for a single project. It makes us too bureaucratic. Too slow moving. It crushes new ideas. We need to move away from this centralized "official" mentality to a mentality of the Wesnoth platform being a project, and other projects emerging around it. I can see that you are very smart and motivated, Neki, so I'm hoping that you can help by leading us in this process -- by showing just how successful a separate project based on the Wesnoth platform can be.

David
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JoJocage
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by JoJocage »

I expect to win in this tournament, because I have to feed the family. Lifting the cash prize, you make us starve.
I am sorry for my bad English.
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neki
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by neki »

Thank you for the kind words, Dave.
Dave wrote:So it might be nice to add a 'server list' feature in the engine which allows those who own servers to publish them somewhere. The Wesnoth engine could thus list the Brutal Wesnoth server as a server to join in a list.
If I manage to set-up a Wesnoth server or find an organization with legal status to set-up a Wesnoth server for me, where we can peacefully organize tournaments, will Wesnoth add this server to the current, already existing in-game list ? (picture attached)

Image

Your kind reply might motivate me to give this one more shot on the long run.
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by Dave »

neki: I would be in favor of such a thing. I think ideal would be a way to 'register' servers easily, and the client download a list dynamically, probably from a web site or such. That way anyone can provide a server and make it available to the community.

I also think we should not call the developer's server the "Official" server, since it makes other servers sound too much like second class citizens.

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
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neki
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by neki »

David: The feature sounds nice, but that will prove to be a bit chaotic and has to be managed carefully in order for somebody not to spam nonexistent servers, and this will generate more bureaucracy like you said in a previous post. Therefore, I would like to kindly reformulate my question, just to make sure I have your kind support before I invest more time and energy into this:

If in the near future (tomorrow for example) I find a legal status organization to host a server for me and a new sponsor willing to provide prizes for a Wesnoth tournament organized on that server, will you be willing to add an entry of that server (model down below) to the current in-game three server list:

DEVELOPER_FRIENDLY_NO_RESPONSIBILITY_DESCRIPTION PRIZE_TOURNAMENT_SERVER_NAME

Thank you for your understanding,

neki
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by Madlok »

Hi, I'm yet another neki's android.

I support this tournament and competitive Wesnoth in general!

First I'd rather wondered whether the official server is a good idea, but for technical reasons (lags). If it is, that I see no reason to block this tournament if it will be not too commercial (for example: sponsor name, maybe word: "prize").

I'm not a communist, I don't intend to "Occupy Wall Street", I know that the server is a private property (or I hope it is).
I just express my opinion.

Edit:
LOL, I see I'm a bit late.
Quick bats are quick.
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neki
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by neki »

Friends, community, developers, it's been great, but it's time for a fresh start!

Love you all, signing out!

neki
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UnwiseOwl
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by UnwiseOwl »

That is a very polite way to ragequit.
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But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.
soul_steven
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by soul_steven »

Neki, im trying to make sense of your comment are you meaning your quitting wesnoth? I couldn't access your channel or the website so im assuming this is what is happening? If that's the case im willing to take on the tournament as admin if no one else wants to (and if people still want this tourney) since I want it to happen. Please respond so I can figure out what is going on! On another completely unrelated note to the tournament, I will e sad to see you go. Your videos and what you try to do for wesnoth is much appreciated and you will e missed.

*Edit* If people are still interested in this tournament and interested in helping maintain it in the case neki is leaving please message me or post here so I can get a idea if this tournament is wanted or not. I cant do it myself! thx
Winderly
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by Winderly »

soul_steven wrote:Neki, im trying to make sense of your comment are you meaning your quitting wesnoth? I couldn't access your channel or the website so im assuming this is what is happening? If that's the case im willing to take on the tournament as admin if no one else wants to (and if people still want this tourney) since I want it to happen. Please respond so I can figure out what is going on! On another completely unrelated note to the tournament, I will e sad to see you go. Your videos and what you try to do for wesnoth is much appreciated and you will e missed.

*Edit* If people are still interested in this tournament and interested in helping maintain it in the case neki is leaving please message me or post here so I can get a idea if this tournament is wanted or not. I cant do it myself! thx

I just noticed the brutal wesnoth's youtube channel was closed, so i came to brutalwesnoth.com and it seems to be closed too (i cannot log into it).

I do hope it's not a ragequit.
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Gambit
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by Gambit »

soul_steven wrote:*Edit* If people are still interested in this tournament and interested in helping maintain it in the case neki is leaving please message me or post here so I can get a idea if this tournament is wanted or not. I cant do it myself! thx
I am still interested in watching. Of course, I don't stand a chance to enter.
soul_steven
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by soul_steven »

Actually you have brought up a good point that also came to my mind today. Nekis site is not up anywhere which is where the list of players was located. As is I have no clue who the 32 original contestants are. The only logical thing I can think of is reopening up sign ups and starting from scratch (this is all assuming neki has indeed gone AWOL.) Again though it all depends on who is interested in this. No point in doing it if no players want to join.
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nani
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Re: BWI - Brutal Wesnoth International - Prize Tournament

Post by nani »

If neki really abandoned us, including the closure of his tournament, I would recommend waiting for TGT3 and WTT to finish.
WTT deserves to be the center of attention atm imho. After both have been finish, I would offer maintaining or helping to maintain
the [acronym=(of an activity or event) intended for the notice of the public and performed or held on behalf of officials]official[/acronym] :P [T]ournament [O]f [/b]hampions Version [b][5][/b] including a tournament table like the ones I created for TGT3 and WTT including its maintenance like I did/am still doing for TGT3.
If the usual suspects, especially Noy4 and Doc Paterson, are in favor of this idea, we could arrange this together (including soul_steven).
If not, just let me know (via pm).

best regards
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