Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Feedback for the mainline campaign Son of the Black Eye.

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Cel
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by Cel » October 8th, 2011, 6:51 am

1.) 1.8.6, Challenging

2.) 4

3.) Clear

4.) I got a bit confused, how long is it ago, that Black Eye was killed?

5.) It was a strange feeling. When Orcs are the enemies, I always think, they are very strong... Now they weren't... ;)

6.) 6

7) Nothing

8.) One time my leader was killed
sorry for my English...

BritNavFan
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by BritNavFan » December 20th, 2011, 10:46 pm

(1) 1.8.6 at EASY/Challenging and NORMAL/Difficult, 1.9.12 at NORMAL
(2) Difficulty (1-10): 1: trivial to win.
(3) Clarity of scenario objectives: Very clear.
(4) Dialog and storyline: Very clear and interesting enough.
(5) Major challenges: None.
(6) Fun (1-10): 5 (serves its purpose as an intro scene for the campaign)
(7) Changes I'd make:
"Heir to the Throne - The Siege of Elensefar" has AI for its Orcs that makes them reluctant to attack during the day. I tried adding that code to the "End of Peace" human side (reversed to make them reluctant to attack during the night) in 1.8.6 and it seemed to add a little flavour and make the AI play a little better.
Even at NORMAL difficulty, this scenario is much, much easier than scenario 4 is at EASY difficulty. So I'd make this scenario as difficult at EASY difficulty as it is at NORMAL. As a player, I expect the difficulty rating of a campaign to refer to the campaign as a whole, and making this scenario harder at EASY just makes the scenario more interesting, not the campaign any harder. (You may have slightly fewer gold at the start of the next scenario but on the other hand you'll have more experienced troops.)
(8) Always won

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by Ninjuri » June 12th, 2012, 5:04 am

Challenging 1.10.2
Difficulty: 4
Objectives: 100% clear
Dialogue: I liked how i got to choose the hero's response, gives it a more personal feel.
Challenges: Since the main battle took place on the second castle, i had to decide whether to use my hero to fight or recruit.
Fun: 7
Changes: none
Reloads: none
Fate is against me.

line
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by line » August 9th, 2012, 11:38 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Warlord (Nightmare) 1.10.3
100 starting gold (enemy: 210)
Finished turn 18/26

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. In order to prevail in the following scenarios you’ll need a good win. There are some things you can influence (send one or two riders west for distraction and constant gold flow, foresee cavalry moves to be able to flee with the riders or at least keep them alive as long as possible, build up a defense at the castle in the west, rotate wounded troops and especially don’t lose troops that already caught up some xp, be patient and hold back attacks at daytime) as well as some things out of the player’s control (at least one of the riders should be quick to be always able to jump from village to village, in general you will want resilient and intelligent grunts and archers to better withstand the human’s attacks and level up asap, the AI should recruit mostly cavalry in the first round as they will reach the castle at night with quite some distance between them and their support, what allows you to encircle and kill them and restore the d-line before the main bulk arrives at daytime).
Later on, try to have several grunts being close to level up (one kill away) instead of any other distribution of xp (of course, that is not a special but universally valid tactic) – it pays out against the dwarves. @ Faello: Therefore I disagree with giving xp to Kapou’e, because it takes him much more xp to level compared with any other intelligent unit. Also, if you manage to level a wolf rider I would make him become a goblin pillager, as his slow ability will be much needed against the lvl 3 dwarf in the next scenario and the lvl 3 elves in the one after. @Ninjuri: It’s definitely possible to fight and recruit with Kapou’e in the same round.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
As mentioned before, this is one of the best storylines of all mainline campaigns.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The key is to hold the line at the castle in the middle of the map. Especially fencers joining the loyals make things harder, as it might occur that your units have more than two attackers to survive and fencers might sneak through your lines and beat off weak units in the rear where you sent them to recover. In some cases (I played this scenario quite often to make a perfect start) the AI sends a lot of cavalry to the west, backstabbing your defense.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. There are things beyond your control, so you can’t go for a perfect game (others might especially like this, I admit being one of those that try not to lose a single unit). So you have to know, you will get some units killed. On the other hand, it’s up to you to determine which unit might fall and which one is better protected (especially by the ground it’s placed on, the number and damage of possible attackers in the opponent’s turn, etc.).
Holding the line with optionally luring the enemies into the water is quite a challenge as well as keeping the rider/s in the west alive for distraction and gold income as long as possible is.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No reloads, but several tries for a better victory.
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PorkSol
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by PorkSol » March 29th, 2013, 12:31 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.6 - Warlord - (Nightmare) - No save/load

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7.5 to get a relatively efficient win

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Figuring out the proper strategy and finishing the leader in a timely fashion. I initially sent two wolf riders to the east, but they were insufficient to handle the cavs that the enemy sent over there. So I had to send two archers as well. I recruited the rest of my units in the small keep to the west, to save maintenance costs. But I had to try a few times to execute the strategy properly, as I am not used to playing Northerners.

The other challenge is to kill the leader in a timely fashion. If you arrive during day or he retreats into his castle in the corner of the map you can easily lose two or more turns trying to kill him safely. That cost me another restart.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 - The design of the map was above average for a 1v1 and I enjoyed trying the Northerners in a campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

None

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Never reloaded, several restarts to win and win with a reasonable level of efficiency
Attachments
SotBE-End_of_Peace_replay.gz
Nightmare - 1.10.6 - no save/load
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SBak
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by SBak » September 18th, 2013, 9:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest level) 1.8.5 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I'm giving this a 5, an extra point for my inexperience with playing Northerners.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
At this point I like it a lot. It has background, a good central character and a nice introduction to the campaign.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
My main issue was with recruiting. Often in Wesnoth campaigns you pick up on a suggestion early on to focus on a particular unit which helps you develop your army. My main experience is playing Elves, and there's basic principles which you can modify - don't recruit without shamen, rely on fighter/archer lines, etc. Northerner units, like Dwarves tend to level quickly and here I feel you have a choice between focussing on Wolf Riders or on Orcish Archers. I opt for Archers.

However I tend to focus on levelling Kapou'e early on.

My other major challenge here is dealing with Fencers, which I found almost as irritating as dealing with Footpads in TSG.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8-9 - This is a deceptively simple first scenario on a wide open map but gives you a lot of room to try, learn and experiment. It's hard to lose this scenario, but I guess the challenge here is discovering how many different ways you can win it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd keep it as it is, it works.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, despite the fact that you have a second castle with two spaces to recruit halfway along the map (it's a brilliant idea for a first scenario). My first lesson was learning that Orcish Grunts aren't as powerful as I thought they were - they're actually quite weak as a level1 melee unit and this also goes for Kapou'e.

Another was when I had my units nicely on the edge of the forest engaging the enemy with Kapou'e off to the side for a grand finale level up when the AI surprised me and sent three units suddenly west to kill him off.

Velensk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by Velensk » December 3rd, 2013, 7:23 pm

I heard that you wanted testers for this one. I decided that I'd give it another run through though I don't remember it being especially interesting before. I will be playing through it on medium difficulty.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.11.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Obvious

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The major challenge was in finding ways to reduce enemy damage quickly despite low damage unit and thus be able to keep experienced units alive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7: I like the strait forward introduction to your forces.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Depends on if you want to redesign it completely. It works just fine as it is. I think it would be nice for the scenario to emphasize grunts more and be large enough for a good number of levels. As the presence of cavalry and the stronger orc archers of late make it so that fewer kills will be going to the much easier to level archers. In every orc campaign I've seen I always end up with a ton of slurbows and trolls and a shortage of the actual core of the orc forces, the warriors and warlords. Now, trolls regeneration is particularly useful in campaigns but still a lot of it is due to the fact that grunts are not particularly easy to level them and they are cheap enough that you'd as soon recruit another than recall one with a couple kills.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I actually restarted (from turn 3) twice to save the experienced units (once to a quick fencer, once to bad luck). I remember the next scenario requires one to fight dwarves and I wanted to have some damage to not be in a long war of attrition.

EDIT: I was just informed that the trunk has a different form of this scenario. When/if I can get ahold of it, I'll restart the playtest with the new form.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 4th, 2014, 10:17 am

(1) Level and version? Nightmare; 1.11.12.
(2) Difficult? I'll call it a 7, because I lost the first time and won on the last turn the second time, but it's easy to get large income.
(3) Clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Good.
(5) Challenges? The strategy I used was my usual one, which is to maximize income via grabbing villages and limiting recruits. It's hard to get both terrain and time-of-day advantage here, so I lost several units out in the open, but with the large income I only sweated the loss of XP. Two units missed >91% kill shots on a Heavy Infantryman, which then caused me to lose a unit since I had not planned to get so unlucky. However, this was compensated by a Wolf Rider singlehandedly taking out a Fencer and Cavalryman that had him cornered. I renamed him "Wolf of 9 Lives". To win before the time limit, it was necessary for "Wolf of 9 Lives" to lure the Lieutenant out of his keep, dodging his potentially deadly blow. After other units beat up the Lieutenant, "Wolf of 9 Lives" delivered the killing blow with something like a 65% chance of killing but 25% chance of being killed. He leveled up to Goblin Knight. The adventures of "Wolf of 9 Lives" will continue... :)
(6) Fun? 8. I made my own fun.
(7) Changes? You could nuke a village or two in the southwest to make it harder, but then you'd need to weaken the enemy in the Human Army to make up for the lost gold.
(8) Reloads? One normal loss, no save-reloads. 1.11.12 bug: One crash when running replay a second time.
(9) WML? Only two comments. Could add a comment about the scenario choice at the end.
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Theron
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by Theron » May 10th, 2014, 7:58 am

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
1 100+0 19/22 13-0-1-2-21

Comments:
Scenario 1:
Initial recruits: 3 Wolf Riders. If one is quick you will get the repositioned village in the west on the same turn as in the old version. If a second one is quick there are other options beside the usual staying north of the lake: send him down the map in the west, too: assist in capturing the southern villages OR swing him around the lake, capture a village and then join your main force. Meanwhile Kapou’e moves to the small keep and where he recruits Archers and Grunts.
My gold could have been a bit more if I had lost the units I was willing to sacrifice.
Overall I like the new version.
About the addition of Heavy Infantrymen: 3 of those are less annoying than 3 Spearmen and 1 Fencer.
The AI not spending all gold as fast as possible: this prevents that 3 or 4 early Cavalrymen in the West will screw you.
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lezthar
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by lezthar » October 11th, 2014, 7:11 pm

(1) Level and version? Nightmare; 1.11.16.
(2) Difficult? 8
(3) Clear? Yes
(4) Dialog? Good.
(5) Challenges? Enemies are lawful while yours are chaotic, making time of day especially crucial for when to attack/defend, generally recruited in a ratio of 3/12 wolf riders, 4/12 orcish grunts, 5/12 orcish archers, orcish archers composed most of my force as they were essential for taking out heavy infantrymen and nearly so for dealing with cavalrymen and fencers. Heavy troop losses were unavoidable as this is the first scenario in the campaign and the enemy starts with a hefty amount of gold, difficult to win this in the time given.
(6) Fun? 7
(7) Changes? Nope, seems fine
(8) Reloads? no reloads but multiple restarts
(9) WML? ...

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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by D-Wade » November 20th, 2014, 6:16 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 - Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - Playing the orcs for the first time, I realized that they are more fragile than they seem to be.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very interesting. It had just the right balance of dialog and fighting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I had to hold myself back and not overextend. I always thought that orcs can punch and take a pretty big hit but that was a misjudgement on my side.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - New race, first scenario, everything was fine.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had to reload once because I overextended with too few units. Jumped back a few turns and put my leader onto the secondary castle to recruit some more units.

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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by D-Wade » November 22nd, 2014, 8:34 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.0 - Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8.5 - More difficult than in 1.10.7 but still doable. You have to be even more aware of the time of day in the newest release.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very interesting. It had just the right balance of dialog and fighting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Same as in 1.10.7. But with a twist: I had to retreat into my castle and/or the forrest during the day to prevent huge losses.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 - A little more tactics required and even more fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Once again I had to reload. Not because I overextended but because I did not retreat far enough during day.

MalShubertal
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by MalShubertal » May 25th, 2015, 12:14 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare 1.12.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. Short time limit makes it hard to fully take advantage of day/night cycle.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Love it. Makes orcs relatable.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Tight time limit and the need to closely manage income.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Hard, but a blast.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None. I like it!

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Bunches. I didn't reload, but I restarted many times. I would either try to advance too fast and get torn up in the daytime, or I would play too conservatively and run out of time, or I would over recruit and kill my income. It took me many tries to get the timing right.
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rmj
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by rmj » September 9th, 2015, 3:59 am

Challenging--easiest
Gave up when first meeting Shan Taum and I had insufficient gold.
I always had enjoyed this campaign, but found it difficult. Now it is impossible for me (or perhaps it requires more analysis than I am willing to expend). Too many restarts, too many units killed that I thought were safe, feeling one is doing well only to find that you start the next scenario with insufficient gold. This campaign is more difficult than the normal level of other campaigns.
I think this campaign has become inaccessible to perhaps more than 90% of players who attempt it. There is a large audience who do not have a full knowledge of all aspects of strategy or who do not want to spend five minutes analyzing every turn.

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Turuk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 1 - End of Peace

Post by Turuk » September 9th, 2015, 10:49 am

rmj wrote:Challenging--easiest
Gave up when first meeting Shan Taum and I had insufficient gold.
I always had enjoyed this campaign, but found it difficult. Now it is impossible for me (or perhaps it requires more analysis than I am willing to expend). Too many restarts, too many units killed that I thought were safe, feeling one is doing well only to find that you start the next scenario with insufficient gold. This campaign is more difficult than the normal level of other campaigns.
I think this campaign has become inaccessible to perhaps more than 90% of players who attempt it. There is a large audience who do not have a full knowledge of all aspects of strategy or who do not want to spend five minutes analyzing every turn.
Can you post one of your replays rmj? While it was rebalanced to accurately reflect it being labeled as an expert campaign, I want to see what the hurdles were even on challenging to see about modifications for that setting.
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