V1.7/1.8 - 19 - Costly Revenge

Feedback for the mainline single-player campaign Legend of Wesmere.

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tr0ll
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by tr0ll » September 5th, 2010, 10:19 pm

kukn wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Loved the dialog after destroying the first village, the storyline is very good. However the mission design does not stay to the story logic. As someone mentioned in a previous review, according to the story, the elf army is coming in to slaughter the weakened saurians - they should be recruiting level 1 units only - but lots of them (double what they have in level 3's and 2's). Maybe when the first village is destroyed and the saurians see they're in for a slaughter, have one saurian unit appear with each destroyed village. That would give them a big army, but not all at once. It would also mean the elf player has to push forward and really start the destruction straight away.
second this idea!
i could understand there being more retired high level veteran units around, especially once the village pillage starts.

sandmanvt
Posts: 15
Joined: November 27th, 2009, 9:40 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by sandmanvt » October 11th, 2010, 5:52 pm

What the hell? I played on hard on version 1.8.5, with 200 gold was thrilled with myself when I managed to skirt the defenses and kill the leaders. Then I figure out I have another 13 turns to kill ALL enemy units and destroy all towns?

Maybe with healers, and unlimited turns, I could do this. But facing off, 10 level one units versus about 30 level 3 saurians and no way to heal is kind of overkill.

I must have played on normal last time I beat this. I've found this campaign to be not just hard but Nightmare x 10. I've beaten nightmare campaigns way easier than this. On the choosing a level screen, you should change that.

Awesome campaign, but ridiculously hard!

Connectum
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Joined: December 2nd, 2010, 3:18 am

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by Connectum » December 8th, 2010, 5:05 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.8.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
12
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Seemed fine.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Losing healers, and having virtually no high-level units to recall (due to previous scenarios). I had shydes and sylphs, but they obviously are useless here. And having little money....replayed previous scenarios to wind up with 228 gold, still not enough. Has anyone completed this on hard 1.8.5? Even the attack and defense ratios seem skewed....I've had a l.3 avenger and l.2 marksman trying to take out a l.3 saurian with 36 hitpoints, in the forest...after 20 replayed turns, still couldn't kill that one unit. 30 to go after that...I like a challenge but this really seems impossible. Do the devs play scenarios once they've tweaked them? Perhaps I'm just missing something here.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Moderately fun the first 25 times. After that, not so much.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Ease up the difficulty a little bit.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Lol. See above.

0mark
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Joined: January 6th, 2011, 9:02 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by 0mark » January 8th, 2011, 2:00 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5, easy, 321 Gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Ridiculous hard.
Could be realy easy with enough Gold, but i did all i could to get at least this much.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear and interesting. But the gameplay sucks, see 6.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No Healers, best units lost before battle (remember, the wiki states to concentrate on shydes and sylphs!), absolutely no means of healing, most terrain favorable to the enemy.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Negativ fun. If it was only for the scenario being to hard for me, it would be not that bad. Cheat and forget. But getting forced to commit genocide just to play forth is a total game breaker to me. At last on a mission with the good guys. Even deciding to get to the dark side would be ok. Taken over Wesnoth with Landers nazi-elves might be fun. But first commiting suicide, and then say "ach, well, see, the sun is shining, now im good again" is a bit to much politics for me.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Let Landar have his own army as a AI ally. Kalenz against one saurian leader, Lander against the other and let the player chosse when he thinks its time to stop the sloughtering and finish Landar.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
The inherent bad-ass hardness of the whole scenario

Jabie
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Joined: December 2nd, 2010, 12:50 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by Jabie » January 12th, 2011, 10:51 pm

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.5 Easy.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10. I don't know if it would have been possible without save-scumming. I freely admit that this may have something to do with my crummy tactics.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Exterminate everything.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I see no reason why Kalenz would have gone along with Landar's evil intentions. It would have been better if Landar had sent Kalenz and his loyal troops off on some wild goose chase. See Section 7 on one way this might be accomplished.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

No healing. Enemy can heal with units and villages, but I can't. As one of the characters observes it's a bloodbath.
Skirmishers. Against ordinary troops, you might try a little troop rotation plus resting for 2HP per turn. Skirmishers make this almost impossible.
Difficult terrain. I think the strategy is meant to be to grab the forest island in the middle and defend, but Saurians are good on almost every terrain and you can't get there in time.
Trying to keep my loyal units alive. See 4 above for a plausible *not* to include Kalenz and Loyal units in this scenario.
Time. Not too bad for me, but I could see how this would be serious difficult on a higher difficulty level.

Strategy: Spent out my cash on recalling high level units as I couldn't save it anyhow.

Sent the loyal units North with a couple of sacrificial Heroes, but they attracted the attention of the Northern army. This turned out to be a good thing as I could move through the forest faster than my foes. This utlimately delayed their arrival until Northern Army, allowing my primary army to regroup in the South.

Team South was divided into high level units and a few rangers and scouts.
Spoiler:
The Rangers and Scouts were on village pillage duty whereas the rest of the army got stuck in - and were shortly turned into mincemeat, due to skirmishing an unfavourable terrain (I couldn't get to the central Forest island in time). Had the northern army not gotten distracted Team Loyal, the second Saurian army would have arrived just as I was retreating back to the forest near my initial keep and I would have been toast.

The village pillagers did their job and managed to sneak past the main body of my opponent's army, along - somehow - with a Sharpshooter. These guys got into a fight with the boss and managed to finish him off, they then headed North with the intention of killing Boss 2 and destroying the central villages.

Some clever tactics snuck a few Rangers into key positions ready to swoop on my opponents villages. My scouts bagged most of them. My surviving scout was able to flee away and dive in for another village later. Meanwhile the second enemy reached me. Due to their wild goose hunt, the Northern army fell on me in more managable waves - no more getting swarmed by four or five Saurians at a time. Ranger ambushes slowed them and save-scumming ensured that I was trading units on at least a 2:1 basis.

Boss 2 was taken down and the remaining villages fell, and the final few Saurians fell under the jackboot of the Landar's forces.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3. It's a neat concept, but I was so overwhelmed I save-scummed my way to victory.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

At least I'm fighting Level 1 units, which is a big improvement over everyone else in this forum thread. There's no way I could have made it through this scenario against waves of higher level troops.

Offer the option to get rid of Kalenz and the Loyal units. When the first village is attacked, after the dialog about eggs, have Landar muter "(Hmm. Kalenz could be a problem.)" then offer the following choice.

1. Landar: "Kalenz, I am worried that some of our enemies might escape. It may be wise if you retreat back to the forest."

Response: Kalenz: "That seems prudent. I will take the eggs we found with me. They have no part in this combat."
Kalenz and his loyal troops leave.
Landar: "(With that fool gone, I will be free to exterminate all these accursed Sand-lizards. My allies in the Elven Court will support me.)"
Landar recieves 4 Loyal Elven Lords.

2. Landar: "These creatures know nothing of our ways, and will always be hositle to our kind. We cannot afford to leave any alive."

Response: Kalenz: "That may be true, though it saddens me greatly. If we do not finish this battle now, many more generations of Elves and Saurians may die in fruitless battle. We must perform this act, however heavy our hearts be, but let us make every effort to preseve their relics, that we might be remember them for posterity."
Kalenz and all Loyals stay. Every looted village heals the looter for 4HP.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

I worshipped the Gods of Save and Reload to make it through this scenario.

Giraffemonster
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by Giraffemonster » January 13th, 2011, 10:56 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 19 - Costly Revenge:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.5, Fighter (Easy)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10. The saurians have the terrain advantage as the battle takes place in their capital. Not only that, but because most players start off with a low amount of gold, the saurians are also economically superior. Along with that, there are two armies, making it even harder. All shaman based units are also excluded from the battle, as they refuse to join the slaughter. On top of all that, you can't utilise villages, as you would rather burn them to the ground than healing when you need it most. So for me, that's 300 gold, about 5 level 3's, and no way of healing. Great.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. Kill both leaders, kill all their units. Destroy every village.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I guess the dialogue was clear. The story really irritated me though. So Kalenz, an elf who would prefer peace over war, decides to make an alliance with the humans who BETRAYED them when they really needed their help. Kalenz decides that is in his best interest to save the humans as they are essential to fending off the orks. So after that, Landar wants to exterminate all the saurians who only attacked the elves because the orks were paying them. That's not right.

First of all, why does Kalenz not realise how bad of an idea that is? Cleodil already tells him that the healers will not support them during that time, and he knows that he's going to be attacking a capital swarming with saurians in terrain that suits them. Second, Landar decides to exterminate the saurians for revenge, killing their leaders, all known soldiers, and burning their villages, but not to the orks? Why does Kalenz let Landar do this if he's supposed to promote peace, and productivity? There really is nothing to gain as the saurians are no longer a threat to them. Not only that, but Kalenz is also supposed is supposed to hold authority of Landar. Not liking it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping units alive without the ability to heal, killing the saurians when they're so hard to hit.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3, not really fun at all. I think these "not so fun missions" are necessary, but not to this extent. These types of missions should be used to progress the story or add something different every once in a while. This is different, but certainly not fun. Losing the ability to heal is not fun. Having low funds is only fun when the scenario is designed for you to have low funds.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Lower the amount of villages, as well as the saurian starting funds. This would help a lot, and make the mission a lot more bearable, but it wouldn't make much sense. This is the saurian capital, they should have a lot of villages and a good economy. Bringing in the healers would contradict with the storyline. The saurians have been weakened though, as they've lost their force when fighting you earlier, without getting the gold because you stole it back.

Again, why are your forces doing this in the first place? Landar is leading an attack against the saurians, almost knowing that the odds would be this horrible. An idea from a previous post would work though. The one with elvish champions to be added to your force. It makes sense, since Landar thinks it's such a good idea to kill all the saurians. After all, why would he lead this attack if it leads to suicide?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Death of Kalenz, along with most of my army.

Really have to nerf this, or replace it in some way, as it makes very little sense.

baiy
Posts: 6
Joined: September 5th, 2010, 7:16 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by baiy » July 11th, 2011, 8:51 am

Content Feedback wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 19 - Costly Revenge:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.x easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 It is really 'costly'....
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, no interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No healing, the saurian has terrain advantage and can pass your defence line easliy to hit your seriously injured units. So you need to keep your injured units quite far from the battlefront and that would make your force insufficient there.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
No funny, just too violent. There are few scenario in wesnoth campaign in which you play as a bad role. This is one of them (the others are the last few scenario in Descent into Darkness)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the two goal object optional. You can win to achieve either of them
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes I tried each time of the attack to get the best result...

Generion
Posts: 1
Joined: February 12th, 2008, 3:07 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Reven

Post by Generion » August 4th, 2011, 9:40 pm

1.-1.8.6
_.-Hard

2.Impossible (10)
3.Altough no problems with it.
4.and really exciting, well developed.
5.The lack of gold. 200 vs 1000!!
6.There is no fun. It would be a great challenge, but impossible -> 1
7.Just a bit easier (maybe 200 gold vs 500) OR Eliminating bosses makes lizards run! (I could assasinate them with rangers while my heroes are running away from the swarm.
8.Nothing. I didn't restart. Impossible to finish with the hard difficulty.

But the campaign is great. I don't know why to spoil a great one with this scenario?

brabar
Posts: 18
Joined: August 30th, 2011, 8:18 pm

t first, it seemed impossible ...

Post by brabar » October 5th, 2011, 7:35 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.5 ==> Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7/10

At first, it seemed impossible ... I had a little more than 230 gold ... So I replayed previous scenario, and came back with around 450 gold ... It made it a lot easier.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Perfect

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The really interesting thing was to be "aware" that Landar would turn to be a psycopath :)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Well ... keeping my loyalist troops alive, and getting the other high levels (future friends of Landar) slaughtered out ! ... it worked out quite fine !

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8/10 ==> Very nice after a few turns ;)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Not much, aftermath ... I went up North along the western boarder of the map with my loyal troops, sending all the others southwards, destroying every village ... The AI kept me afraid of a disaster, while sending awful lots of vilains northwest, but once they hit the snow, they are so slow ! ... And then, while the "wrong" elves were pushing forward, the AI seemed really ... (forgive my wrong english) ... hesitant ... I kept my loyal troops in the woods in the north-western corner of the map, and no saurian ever reached them, as the AI kept on hesitating ...

The "bad" elves went into the south forest, destroying as much villages as possible, and heading to the south boss ... as a couple of cavaliers were heading to the north boss ...

Both bosses were killed quite easily, and the I just had to manage destructions and kills, so I left Landar with only 3 high level elves, while I kept my loyal friends alive for next step. Actually, I managed to get most of the wrong elves slaughtered before I finished this scenario

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yes, being "poor" isn't the right strategy ... I had to go back to previous scenario to get enough gold and recall enough slaughter-meat :D)
Sorry for my poor english, it's not my native language

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