The Rise of Wesnoth 8 - Clearwater Port

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Rise of Wesnoth.

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Turuk
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Turuk » December 31st, 2008, 9:29 pm

He's saying that the scenario is not an impossible roadblock scenario, you just found it so hard because of the amount of starting gold you entered the scenario with, among other issues.
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Rapturous
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Rapturous » January 22nd, 2009, 12:51 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.4.7. Normal.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8. I think 8 is the optimum difficulty, if it's difficult for the right reasons. This is, thus far, my favorite scenario to date. My brother played this level previously, and said it was so difficult that he had to do the Cowardice objective. He's by no means bad at this game, and is a Fire Emblem veteran, so I found this intriguing, since when I got here, I didn't think it looked that difficult. So, I aimed for the Heroic objective, prepared for failure. I didn't lose once, and offed the final orc leader (the bottom, green flag one) on turn 32, the last turn. More at point (6).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Pretty clear, but I wasn't sure of the differentiation between the two Heroic objectives. Leaving on the third boat is equal to defeating the three orc leaders? I disagree. Or is one valued slightly more than the other? And what's the point of these objectives? How about giving the player an idea of WHY we should be doing the Heroic objectives. In previous campaign, it was clear that if you went the extra mile, you'd get a Bonus (since the objective said "Bonus" next to it). That was perfectly fine. Now, I'm wondering what the benefit of doing the Heroic objective is. Do we get added content? A bonus down the line? A small, developer-to-player pop-up at the start of the scenario would be adequate. If this is just for bragging rights or to provide a personal challenge, then that's kinda lame.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked the exchange between Haldric and the commander (whose name eludes me, to give you an idea of just how interesting he was). Haldric's character is realistic, but also definitive of someone of royalty, who feels an obligation to people in need. "I have to get my people out of here, but I will try to help." Great characterization there (not a direct quote, but my summary of what he says). I also like the conflict over Jessica and the Wesfolk. Her quotes later out of frustration were good, too. Maybe provide further quotes for her as the battle ensues, or she kills a unit. All in all, I liked the dialogue here, but why stop here? Add more! More more more! This is a long campaign, so let's really get to know these people! I also liked how the commander spoke at the end, about how he lost everything and wanted to basically suicide to spite the orcs, by destroying the city.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I guess the real challenge was knowing how to divide up my team. I beat this Heroic objective without losing once, so I guess it wasn't TOO challenging, but I did inwardly deliberate about just how to divide up my team. I obviously did a pretty good job! The other challenge, which I foresaw, was abusing the time of day. Thanks to the previous scenario, I had some high level thugs, and was able to justify pulling out my lawful units at dusk, and putting in my thugs by night. I also let the CPU helper stick his neck out, since he didn't seem to care what time of day it was. This allowed me to let my level 2's and 3's heal while the CPU put fodder in the enemy's way.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9 by BfW standards. As I noted earlier, this was my favorite scenario thus far. I absolutely loved playing this one. Admittedly, I had some lucky rolls (particularly with my grand knights), but I certainly didn't luck my way through this scenario. There was sacrifice, but more successes. I griped earlier about the super-powerful allies that the game gives you, but this time the allies were just right. They did kill some units, so they weren't useless, and they did protect me at times by shielding blows, but they were definitely limited, though the CPU kept cranking them out. I was quite satisfied with this supply. I also didn't have too much gold (was in the 300's), so I couldn't crank out a gigantic team. I definitely spent everything I had, with a few leftover thugs to recall that I simply couldn't afford. For this reason, I let the CPU keep most of the towns, since I thought he could use them more than I could. The bottom orc, thanks to the island towns, kept producing grunts, which was quite annoying, but since the purple and gray orc leader stopped producing units, this helped balance out the difficulty. In hindsight, I should have sent someone down to the island to take those remaining towns. Great job designing this scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

More dialogue, but that's nitpicking, at this point.

Joram
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Joram » April 7th, 2009, 7:19 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.6.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4- After one initial try, I decided that this was one time where I would have to make an exception to not recalling top-level, non-loyal units. With 3 loads of soldiers, 2 of them lvl 3 recalls, I had all of the orcs eliminated with about 10 turns left.

I had 340 gold.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Nice and clear. Naturally, they are going to be a little more complex than normal, but I like them that way.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Dialogue all right. Storyline good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Surviving a full frontal assault from the orcs during the night outside of the shelter of the castle. Their initial push wasn’t hard to throw back, but I was in the towers at the time. It was when I was advancing that things got tricky, as they were able to keep pumping troops out.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8- Very fun. Unique objectives, good enemies, some interesting terrain.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think I’d try to make the lighthouse a bit more attractive as an offensive option. At the moment, with hordes approaching from the west, I haven’t ever done more than throw a few units there to defend. With my forces already on the western side, there really isn't much point in trying to make the offensive anywhere else.
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silent
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by silent » April 10th, 2009, 6:37 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. That is if you're trying to keep all units alive and the addition of assassins and slayers to this level, which is really infuriating
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear. Heroic objective is great
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
A last glimmer of hope to save the refugees, defend the people sort of thing. Quite pleased
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not losing any important units and those irritating orcish assassins
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Especially when you can easily level knights and horseman when the enemy is so stupid as to wade through the water, attack shock troopers with orcish warriors, etc. Liked the improvement from 1.4.7 that aethyr's troops are now far more useful though
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Leave as is

sabalzen
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by sabalzen » April 13th, 2009, 2:41 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Normal, 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 (leaving on the last boat), i.e. just right.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This is a superb scenario, one of the most memorable for sure. The map is complex and interesting and the storyline is great.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Holding off the first wave without losing any veterans. After that it was easier.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. One of the very best in any of the campaigns.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Leave it as it is.

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Faello
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Faello » June 4th, 2009, 1:40 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard,no loading/saving during the mission, version 1.6.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 if you'll take first ship, 9 for the second and third ship, I started scenario with 200gp (base gp amount I think, as last scenario was impossible to finish with any surplus) and I consider killing the leaders with no loading/saving (aka cheating the game mechanics) on this difficulty level as nearly impossible,I'm stressing this fact because I see a lot of people writing here how they killed all the leaders with initial 100gp on hard level - well, I'd like to see that with their load/save option turned off :P
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, altough it would be nice to know what is the real difference between taking 1st, 2nd and the last ship. I got about 209 bonus gold (but only 87 carried to next scenario) and I still don't know if was it worth losing a Fugitive, Royal Guard and Javelineer.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear & interesting but it would be nice if player could persuade lieutnant to join him if he's boarding the third ship & playing on hard difficulty level. It would be a well deserved bonus for the bloodshed in this scenario :)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping my veterans alive, I stole all the blue villages on the penisula which allowed me to buy/recall units for about 280gp during the game = about 20 units, I lost 5 of them (3vets), sometimes I had to pull some units from the western fortifications to stop black orc from attacking me from behind using water passage near the lighthouse. Also, as much I was almost always able to kill all the attackers during the day phases, new enemy units filled their place always before night come and it forced me to heal as much units as possible using my 3 white mages. Burin (that loyal dwarf) really helps to stop orc advance into the keep with his resistances,+80hp and neutral alignment.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, altough it can easily go down to 0 if you will lose units too fast or if you'll be very unlucky
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- allow Aethyr (Clearwater comander) to join you/persude him to join you, if you'll take the last ship
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Velensk » August 29th, 2009, 5:17 pm

Note to maintainer: When playing this on 1.7.3 I had problems with the lieutenant getting himself killed by charging up to the water to shoot his crossbow at naga. When I had played this before he had been a passive leader. I would appreciate if this were fixed.
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sTi
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by sTi » May 20th, 2010, 8:34 am

1: easy on version 1.6.4

2: 9.the 1st time i played i was like overwhelmed by those stinky orcs..!

3: pretty clear...kill the orcs or wait for the ships to arrive

4: pretty clear...

5: i couldn't get the aethyr to come with me even by taking the last ship...BLOODY HELL

6: 7..

7: do something so the aethyr would join me on the last ship
sTi

shadowblack
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by shadowblack » August 21st, 2010, 2:51 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4, Commander (Normal)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 – a lot easier than I expected

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping all of my units alive – I got careless several times and so had to replay a few turns.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give at least a hint when each ship arrives.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Just my carelessness combined with my bad luck (for example an enemy attacking a unit with 70% def and hitting 3/3)


I started this scenario with 220 gold, so I expected it to be hard. But it wasn’t because Purple and Black wasted most of their time attacking Blue’s units (and the few units I had left to support Blue) while my main force engaged and slaughtered Green. To make things easier both Green’s and Purple’s leaders were nice enough to leave their respective keeps and attack my units, making it much easier to assassinate them. Last, but not least, around 6 or 7 of Black’s units tried crossing the shallow water, where they got stalled and slaughtered (since there’s a choke point where two of my units can attack one of the enemy’s), making things much easier for me.
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fenny
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by fenny » August 23rd, 2010, 12:10 am

1) 1.8.2 medium difficulty
2) 5 for the easy task, 9 for killing all enemy leaders in time, it's impossible without loosing many units
3) clear
4) ok
5) to keep as much levelled units alive as possible and kill the last orc leader (in my case the northern one) before the end of turns
6) 9, it's one of my favourites
7) nothing
8 ) i lost lady jessene or haldiel or a unit i found essential to get through

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Maiklas3000
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Maiklas3000 » December 18th, 2010, 9:49 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Lord (challenging/hard); 1.9.3 with WML modified to use full recruit list for enemies (recruit_ignore_bad_combat=yes), otherwise no goblins; 254 starting gold (minimum is 200.)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 to leave earliest, 8 to leave latest

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, but I didn't know exactly which turn the last ship would leave, even after reading the WML. I left on turn 28. Could I have left on turn 29?

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Most excellent.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The first time, I embarassingly fell for the AI's flanking maneuver over the northwest strait and had to take the cowardly option to win. I wanted to do better. The next couple of times, I too aggressively tried to push out initially, so my troops were too beaten up when falling back to the castle, and I suffered losses I didn't want to take. In my final attempt, I rushed forward and almost as quickly back to the castle and achieved a fairly crushing victory with lots of advancements and AMLA's and using the latest departure, although I didn't dream of killing any of the leaders. Oh yeah, my biggest challenge was that I have only two White Mages on my roster.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Great level of difficulty and no boring clean up. One of the best scenarios of any campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Final ship should give a warning when about to leave, and there should even be a warning that there will be a warning, so players can time their last departure and don't need to just run immediately.

WML should be modified so that full recruit list is used (see #1).

North leader should be prevented from recruiting Wolf Rider types for the first couple of turns. This would open the strategy option of crossing the strait at the start, plus it might make his initial assault wave more concentrated.

(8) Restarts?
Some restarts from start, but no save-reloads in whole campaign.

(9) WML?
There are no comments. Need to comment boat departures.

(10) Replay?
Attached.
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ManiacTehGreat
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by ManiacTehGreat » July 22nd, 2011, 3:08 am

Great scenario!

Upon winning by defeating all enemy leaders, the following error message appeared:

<WML> Error: empty side= and no [filter_side] is deprecated

Screenshot included.

Playing 1.9.6
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taptap
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by taptap » February 21st, 2012, 11:58 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Lord (Challenging), 1.10.0, 282 gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

It is clear on precedent when the ships are leaving, but saying so explicitly for the last one would still be nice.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Very nice. Aethyr staying there doesn't make sense to me.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I recalled White Mage + MoL + last minute a Huntsman, the rest of my units were recruits, predominantly spearmen.
Surviving the second night, especially the attack across the ford (my northern defence collapsed and I was in big trouble), which I barely managed mainly thanks to the Huntsman (marksman is really useful against those slayers). During the day it started looking good, I got the first spearman to L3 :). However, this Royal Guard unexpectedly died starting from near full health during the next night, leaving me in trouble again. Burin was encircled, a wolf able to attack a White mage. Again I barely managed resolve the problems. No chance to kill enemy leaders. Could have easily ended otherwise and did so on earlier tries when I tried with a more balanced army.

14 losses (but ended with 2 Royal Guards and 2 Halberdiers).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9 - Very good.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Change the daily reinforcement of the AI leaders into equivalent steady income, as is the statistic is misleading. Having no fog, it looks like you know what happens, but in fact you don't.
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line
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by line » December 13th, 2012, 9:23 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Lord (Challenging) 1.10.3
277 starting gold, enemies: 290/290/360
Finished turn 27/32
Ships arrive/leave at turn: 12/18, 20/24, 26/

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. I remembered this scenario to be much easier when I played it in earlier versions (but maybe I played on lower difficulty or made use of save-loading, dunno).
That’s why I was sure, it is possible to hold against the orcs not using the castle itself, but the area with the two castle hexes to the west of the castle using my veterans. I have to admit, it took me several restarts (always from the beginning) to make it work. First I optimized my recalling to maximize my income (loyal ST first, the other units just in time to let them reach their defending position as late as possible, maximum village stealing).
Normally your ally delays the first orcish attack until second watch. Therefore, after withstanding that, you do have four rounds to dish out. You can allow the orcs trying to pass you north and south of your defense pack. In the south, it makes the orcs stepping on ice; in the north, you can then use additional castle tiles. (I didn’t have enough troops and healers to man these tiles right from the beginning.)
This phase between first and second night is the decisive phase. I needed many attempts before coming through without casualties. (Can’t stand the loss of a veteran.) Even though I didn’t save-load it felt a bit like cheating, that’s why I replayed it again. I managed a major victory another two times, but I admit you need at least not too much bad luck to get through.
I tried once to hold out along the castle line. But using only my vets my lines were thin without backup and I had not enough healers to cover every defender. Maybe I should have mixed some lvl-1 units in. It went horribly wrong, that’s why I didn’t pursue on that strategy. Reading taptap’s post I’d love to see a replay how he beats it with mostly lvl-1’s.
By the way, the ally’s execution of defensive behavior is … interesting.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Where is the sense in keeping the ally alive, when he decides in the end to suicidal stay at southbay. I don’t mean the scenario objectives shall be changed nor I demand to let Aethy join the player. But there is at least an explanation needed, why it’s necessary to keep him alive. (Like for example the boarding will not work out without him or whatever)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I didn’t get the sense of the orc claiming Clearwater to be their winter home. As explained later on, the orcs originated from the wesfolk’s home island and followed the wesfolk to the Green Isle. In addition, Southbay is still in human’s hand and ever was, that’s what the scenario is about. However, how the orc speaks implies that Southbay is their winter home since a long time ago. Maybe I’m too pedantic, but to me it only makes sense if he means, that Southbay is supposed to become their winter home.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The masses of lvl-2 orcs!

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Good fun. Even though it might take some restarts, to optimize the strategy. But the little space limits the player's possibilities to maneuver.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There is something about the graphics. In a winter landscape, with the hills covered with snow, it’s quite ridiculous, that there seems to be no snow at the mountain hexes.
In addition, I think a peasant was supposed to comment on his attack, but never did.
At least the behavior of the northern orc sucks. He wastes a lot of time by running his troops from the bridge to ford and back without participating in any fights.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Loosing veterans.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Clearwater Port

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 11th, 2014, 5:09 pm

(1) Level and version? hard, 1.11.15, 229 starting gold, L1 Lady Outlaw returns.
(2) Difficult? 7. I think it was harder before. I took the third ship.
(3) Objectives? Pretty clear. It's not clear what turn the last ship leaves.
(4) Dialog? Good, but the criticisms of the previous reviewer are valid.
(5) Challenges? I made the mistake of sending Burin to village grab. I lost four units getting him back alive. It's better to just be conservative at the start. There is a huge enemy wave coming, so there is no point in grabbing villages past the castle walls. Just sit at the castle walls and the point and defend. If you're in good terrain, the enemy is relatively harmless, except when there are a couple of Orcish Warriors together at night.
(6) Fun? 8.
(7) Changes? A couple of suggestions:

1. I think the AI recruits too many Assassins and Slayers. Grunts should be the mainstay of any orc army. (I mean they're the most cost effective, but yeah it's also more befitting their character.) You could probably fix it by removing Assassins and Slayers from the recruitment list of two of the orc leaders and/or making one orc leader recruit just Grunts!

2. In a previous version, I was able to ford to the north and skirmish there for the villages, and it was more interesting that way. This time, the northern enemy sends such a constant stream that I have to just sit at the point and kill them as fast as possible. So, I would suggest changing it to encourage being able to go across, which probably means slashing the northern orc's income. Otherwise, your lighthouse's cute Mage of Light effect is wasted. Similarly, the western front, along the castle wall, was stagnant and after almost all my units were maxed out on levels it was a bit tedious to keep whacking the moles on ice. So, this may be a scenario that benefits from having less enemy income, so that you can get more adventurous towards the end.
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