South Guard 7a. Into the Depths

Feedback for the mainline campaign The South Guard.

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akepooh
Posts: 3
Joined: August 17th, 2006, 8:25 am

Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths

Post by akepooh » August 17th, 2006, 8:56 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- Normal, 1.1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 8/10 My troops probably cannot kill the lich by themselves. Thankfully I paid the trolls off and they come help me. I don't think I can finish this scenario without extensive save/load.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- clear and good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- killing the lich

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 5/10 long trek on the back side without much to do. then meeting overly powerful boss.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- helping the troll fight through the undead, then having the troll kill the lich would be great. i think it's doable...just some suggestion by the dialog.

Stedevil
Posts: 40
Joined: November 29th, 2005, 7:21 am

Post by Stedevil » October 5th, 2006, 9:13 am

SmokemJags wrote: He went from level 2 to level 3 by... dismounting? Strange. Clearly appropriate, but still strange.

Experience... xxx/512? Non purple color experience? I wonder what he becomes after 512 experience.
Can't tell, because hitting 'd' to check unit desciption brings up... a blank page.
That 512xp to next level is clearly a bug. It only happens if you load a savegame. Eg in my case starting with mounted stats:

lvl2 - 38/38hp - 4/52xp

Right after dismounting:

lvl3 - 60/38hp - 4/40xp

From second turn:

lvl3 - 38/38hp - 4/40xp

After first loading of savegame

lvl3 - 38/60 - 4/512xp

This is with about a 2 week old 1.3-svn version but I have seen the same behaviour with earlier versions too (1.1x).
Guess for now Ill have to play the mission without any reloads :roll: :lol:

OS Linux Gentoo

Kamamura
Posts: 112
Joined: January 19th, 2005, 1:04 pm

Post by Kamamura » December 20th, 2006, 2:50 pm

I believe there is a bug in this scenario. If you fight the trolls and kill their king, the scenario ends immediately in victory, and in the following one the people rejoice that the unded are gone. However, I have not even met the undead in the caves.

SkeletonCrew
Developer
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Post by SkeletonCrew » December 20th, 2006, 3:53 pm

Which version of Wesnoth are you playing with?

Kamamura
Posts: 112
Joined: January 19th, 2005, 1:04 pm

Post by Kamamura » December 20th, 2006, 11:28 pm

latest devel, 1.1.14

SkeletonCrew
Developer
Posts: 787
Joined: March 31st, 2006, 6:55 am

Post by SkeletonCrew » December 21st, 2006, 6:42 am

Did you restart the scenario (by using a savegame from the previous secnario or from the savegame before turn 1) or play with an old savegame. (When loading an old savegame the chances in the scenario file are not loaded.) Could you also post a savegame just before you meet the troll king?

Kamamura
Posts: 112
Joined: January 19th, 2005, 1:04 pm

Post by Kamamura » December 21st, 2006, 5:07 pm

I did not use old savegames, I played whole campaign after upgrading to 1.1.14

I surely reloaded few times, but don't remember restarting the level.

I will try to find the savegame in question.

Ethyrdude
Posts: 9
Joined: September 11th, 2006, 2:16 am

Post by Ethyrdude » December 29th, 2006, 2:59 am

Well that certainly wasn't much fun. Played on easy, version 1.2, BTW, I do like the new effects. I got stuck behind the Trolls who I bargained with, before I could get to the spot, they killed the undead Elf leader and victory was mine, without me having to kill a single thing. I realize that this is for beginners but this was just tedious. Would have been more fun to annoy the trolls and kill them too, maybe I will, just to get even. Bwa,ha,ha.

Septim
Posts: 18
Joined: August 2nd, 2006, 12:03 pm
Location: Czech republic

Post by Septim » January 29th, 2007, 11:39 am

(1) third (called normal) v. 1.2
(2) 7 when you offer money, 10 when offer liberty and land
(3) clear
(4) 5/10
(5) not get bored when moved my units; kill lich
(6) 4
(7) Killing lich is like lottery, not strategy! Deoran is strange (level?, experiences?). There are too few villages near your starting point. The map is too big.
One posibility (see 2) is much harder? One way is like prison? In this way you support spoilers!

Kernigh
Posts: 107
Joined: February 13th, 2007, 10:21 pm
Location: United States
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Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths

Post by Kernigh » February 14th, 2007, 5:18 pm

I played "Into the Depths" in January 2007.

(1) Hard "Soldier", Wesnoth 1.2.0
(2) Scenario difficulty: 10 (very hard), I had to replay the scenario multiple times and use the "back to turn X" feature multiple times before I could even win the scenario once. I started the scenario with only 80 gold. This was my most difficult scenario in Wesnoth to date.
(3) Clear objective, defeat Mal M'Ebrin from two scenarios ago.
(4) Apparently the trolls do not mind that I occupy villages in the cave to raise the 100 gold. I was confused by this for awhile, because I figured that if this was permissible, then the trolls would just raise the gold themselves and not accept my help.
(5) Since I attempted this scenario several times, I can explain why I found this scenario so difficult:
  • Lawful humans in a chaotic cave. Apparently Sir Gerrick had taken all of the elves away from my recall list. I needed strong units, so I recalled two level 2 humans and two level 3 humans. These lawful units fought poorly against chaotic undead in a dark cave. (Maybe I should have instead recruited Elvish Fighters! I stuck to recalling strong humans, even after I learned of the trolls. I had originally assumed that I would need to tackle the undead with only those humans.)
  • The breaking ice. I could not afford to strand a unit (to have it die to Ghosts or Shadows) so I learned to cross not the ice that breaks.
  • The problem with Deoran. Deoran becomes a "Dismounted Commander" in this scenario. His stats are exactly like before, except that he has less max HP (60/38 instead of 60/60). The second turn, Deoran loses 22 HP to become 38/38. Even worse, if I save and restore the game, Deoran's stats change! He loses a movement point, but his HP becomes 38/60, and Etheliel or Minister Hylas can heal him over the next several turns. I wondered if I was cheating, whether I had one Deoran or the other Deoran.
  • Unpredictable trolls, unpredictable undead. Having promised 100 gold to the trolls, they fought on my side. I observed that the trolls could easily fight most undead, but not Wraiths. The ability of the trolls to advance depended much on how often the undead decided to send Wraiths. In one game, my units and the trolls became stuck; a troll that may have wanted to retreat could not go anywhere, because too many other trolls (and a few of my units) were lined up behind it. The choke point was the one-hex-wide path entrance to the old dwarf road. I ran down the turn counter, being unable to proceed through the mass of trolls, and lost the scenario. The next game, by the time that I reached the same point, the attacking trolls had already advanced through.
  • The question of the thundersticks. The ability to blow a rear entrance to the lich's camp added some strategic death, but left the question of whether I should advance with the trolls or advance through that entrance. In one game, when I opened the rear entrance, the undead slew Deoran. In the next game, I tried to proceed with the trolls, but found myself stuck behind a non-moving mass of trolls.
  • The strength of the lich. Mal M'Ebrin is difficult to attack. Use a ranged attack, and my unit will die. Use a melee attack, and I could be unlucky and have the lich heal. I could not afford to risk a blue-shield unit like Minister Hylas against the lich.
I would have never won this scenario, but that the lich made a crucial mistake. As my main army advanced with the trolls, I put my units upon the castle squares north of the lich's castle. The lich chose to advance and attack. This allowed me to melee from favorable terrain, and it also allowed Deoran and a partner to claim the keep, and recruit some Elvish Fighters to use as melee fodder.

Sink41
Posts: 1
Joined: March 13th, 2007, 5:16 pm

Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths

Post by Sink41 » March 13th, 2007, 5:28 pm

Eleazar wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium 1.22

I think my game is bugged or something... first time i started everything looked ok but i lost elf leader due to the breaking ice so I restarted the game. The second time i started game went i went to recall there were a load of level 3 human and elf fighters at the top of the list that wernt there before. So, i load map a third time and this time I have one human and one elf level 3 like before. The first time i played i chose to pay trolls, but this time i decide to go all out after trolls and chose second option. After a tough fight i kill the troll king only to find i have won scenario??? Found this a little strange.

cph
Posts: 129
Joined: May 12th, 2007, 4:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by cph » June 5th, 2007, 6:53 pm

1) Normal, 1.2.4
2) 5
3) Clear
4) Okay
5) Defeating the wraith, or was it a spectre, that gets embroiled fighting the trolls, was tricky given how slow the white mage is to position.

Tackling the lich is tough, given how quickly he can kill your units.

6) 4
7) There's a long, rather uneventful walk-in-the-dark to get to the lich; a few more wandering skeletons would make things more interesting.
8 ) start gold 80

Edward V Riley
Posts: 265
Joined: June 28th, 2007, 4:42 pm
Location: Baldwyn Mississippi

My strategy for this

Post by Edward V Riley » June 29th, 2007, 11:54 pm

After one blown game to figure out just what I was supposed to do and where I was supposed to go, I tackled it again.

1-basically, don't send anyone over the trap. sidestep it
2-have the minister and one elven bodyguard unit battle the trolls(nope, didn't buy them). Get them in the narrow corriders and use the archer to range them down, then every turn the minister heals him. Their goal? Simply stand there and level up as high as they can go.

Meanwhile I brought my other units, relying on the faster ones like the dragoons, to circle around to come at the trolls from behind. With the majority of the trolls engaged in the mindless slaughter from my archer and minister, they were easy to penetrate from this direction, especially since there's towns nearby.

3-while all this was going on, I simply moved elithillel and the hero around to battle the lich...

4-What stunk is that I killed the troll leader before I even reached the lich and the whole scenario was over. I thought the lich was the true object of the scenario..imagine my chagrin.

Side note: If you start the scenario, then hit start over, every unit you have...doubles. Twins of every character...not that you can call them or use them all in THIs scenario.
Who Knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
The Shadow knows

Kernigh
Posts: 107
Joined: February 13th, 2007, 10:21 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Related bug

Post by Kernigh » July 16th, 2007, 4:00 am


nowhereman
Posts: 3
Joined: July 18th, 2007, 2:55 pm
Location: Grenoble, France

Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths

Post by nowhereman » July 18th, 2007, 3:41 pm

Eleazar wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1) Normal on 1.2.5, Windows
2) 9 stupid tunnels are not wide enough, lich too strong
3) 0. Had to google around and read forums to find out how to finish this! As I didn't meet the troll leader at the beginning, I fought both undead and trolls, and even after I got rid of the lich, couldn't figure out what to do next. Didn't have enough turns left to go back and kill off all the trolls...
4) Unclear.
5) Understanding what to do, killing the lich. A few re-loads for the latter...
6) 2. Don't like tunnels, took me 24 turns to get to the lich's back door!
7) Wider tunnels, shorter distances, clear objectives. Wouldn't mind killing off the trolls if there was time!

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