Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

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Hushpuppy
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Hushpuppy » August 18th, 2009, 1:25 pm

The1exile wrote:A few more to add to the previous post:
...
Cavalryman: The bad news is that there is a second army moving to join the orcish hord...
"hord" --> "horde". Also "orcish" --> "Orcish", I believe.
...
Why would "orcish" be capitalized? It's a species, not a nation. In other words, "orcish" is to "human" as "catlike" is to "doglike", no?
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Huston
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Huston » August 19th, 2009, 1:50 am

you are correct in your thinking pup.

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The1exile
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The1exile » August 21st, 2009, 5:53 pm

Hushpuppy wrote:It's a species, not a nation.
Yeah, that was the ambiguity here (hence "I believe"). Unlike in the days of the Northern Alliance, there's no indication that I saw that the orcs aren't one large nation of orcs now. It's just the difference between "the Army of the Orcs" or "an army of orcs".
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Hushpuppy » August 22nd, 2009, 4:41 pm

In that case, wouldn't it be "The Orcan Nation"? Because "orcish" is still an adjective that describes a species. Although I didn't know there was a nation called "Orc", but I have not read all that there is to read about the world of Wesnoth yet...
-the Pupp
Last edited by Hushpuppy on August 22nd, 2009, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Hushpuppy » August 22nd, 2009, 4:43 pm

I have been reading this over a few days, so if I repeat anything please forgive me. And as they say, "take what you like and leave the rest..."

Here's my review:

Scenario 1: properity (should be "prosperity")
Too many commas. It breaks the flow. Examples:

Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars, as one petty warlord fought another to possess the crown

Should be:

Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars as one petty warlord fought another to possess the crown

Similarly:

They renounced the pact with the orcs and undead, and for a time the Kingdom regained some of its properity

There are numerous others, in my opinion.

I think this reads better:
Such raids were common since Haldar renounced the treaty with the orcs, but now they were larger and more coordinated.

This should be one paragraph:
The few remaining villages in the area, poor and largely defenseless, relied on only a handful of royal troops to protect them.
In the small village of Alben east of the fords of Abez, Sergeant Gwadoc of the Wesnothan army musters the villagers to repel a raid, while a messenger rides desperately to bring help from the forts at Abez.

...By the way, should that be "Wesnothan" or "Wesnothian"?

In "Time Over":
Prince Murdoch: After them! Drive them back from the fords!

I think this sounds better:
Prince Murdoch: After them! Drive them from the fords!

In Scenario 2: The Meeting with Prince Murdoch

Here you need the commas :-) :
Everyone was surprised that the Prince, of all people, showed up with reinforcements.

I wonder if this should be capitalized:
Why does the Crown not act?

This sounds kind of Vulcan:
Indeed I am aware of what you speak

Maybe this?
But know that I am aware of what you speak

Also: "no mend to send" should be "no men to send".

Here, you have "Another purpose" and "as well", which is kind of repetitive:
Another purpose they served as well was to guard the Fords of Abez against invasion from the North.

Should be:
Another purpose they served was to guard the Fords of Abez against invasion from the North.

Again an extra comma: "They are burning the villages, and killing all they find"

Try reading it like this: "They are burning the villages and killing all they find"

I think this should be one sentence:
I have managed to make contact with a Dwarvish Lord- the Dwarf Lord Glamaithsol of the Northern Alliance to be precise.

I would rewrite this paragraph. At first I thought the dwarves hated the orcs, but then as I read towards the end I could see that they were at peace. Well anyway, I leave this for you and you can decide if you like it (in any event, "arrive" is used when you're going someplace, I think "return" is better for the last word of this paragraph).

Cavalryman: While I was with him I told him of the alliance between the orcs and the undead. He told me that he has known for some time now that the orcs were mustering but had no reason to attack, for they had done no harm. He did not know the orcs were waiting for an undead army to join them. He has sent a messenger to his superiors to find out what course of action he should take. He has also requested that I return with an ambassador in 10 days. I rode as fast as I could but it still took me 4 days to return.

I was slightly confused here. Do you think this is better?
Gwadoc: If you send a small force over the river, they can join the Alliance forces and outflank the orcs to the north. If after a few days' time you cross the ford with the bulk of your forces, perhaps we can then trap the orcs and ambush them in their camp. Then we can withdraw and face the undead host at the Forts.
General Addraenvan: You are assuming that the dwarves will be willing to help us.

In Scenario 4:
"watch posts" is one word: "watchposts"

"The Alliance forces were some miles to the north" should be "are" instead of "were".

...I think the issues regarding "their" and "there" have been covered.

Extra comma:
Gwadoc: You may join with us, and help us clear this rabble of orcs from these lands

Also I think the word rabble is a little weak. I would think that orcs are a
scourge, as in:

Gwadoc: You may join with us and help to clear the scourge of orcs from these lands.

Under "Scenario 5":

Some problems with sentence structure and vernacular here:
The Pathfinder who stopped us at the signpost said the orcs are on the move. And led us as quickly as possible to Lord Glamaithsol. Only problem was, we found more than just dwarves there...

How about this?
The Pathfinder who stopped us at the signpost said the orcs are on the move, and led us as quickly as possible to Lord Glamaithsol. To our grave misfortune*, we found more than just dwarves there...

* (or simply, "Unfortunately," but I like the hoity-toity sound of "grave misfortune". Queue the ominous organ... :-) )

In the Introductory Dialog, "attacking" is missing an "a".

Also, I think the flow is better like this:

Scout: The camp is not far ahead, Gwadoc.
Gwadoc: We shall use this camp as a rallying point.
Scout: But wait! What is this?! The orcs are attacking it!
Alolonna: We must first take it from the them.
Scout: I place myself at your disposal, Gwadoc.
Lord Glamaithsol: Greetings, men of Wesnoth! I regret we could not meet under happier circumstances!
Vadash: Wesnothians to the South. Kill them!

Under Time Over, the word "Orcish" is capitalized. In other places, it's not. As it describes a certain species, I don't think it needs to be capitalized. (think about this, "The manly soap cleaned my armpits..." "the human toll was very great..." all lower case)

Under "You Have undoubtedly..." the "Have" is capitalized.

Here:
Gwadoc: Wesnoth is not as powerful as it once was, but we do not forsake our friends easily.

...eep, if I was Lord Glamaithsol, would I accept such a wishy-washy declaration? Get rid of the word "easily."

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The1exile
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The1exile » August 24th, 2009, 7:37 am

Hushpuppy wrote:Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars as one petty warlord fought another to possess the crown
I'm pretty sure "wracked" isn't a word, actually. Either "racked" or "wrecked", probably the first.
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Hushpuppy » August 25th, 2009, 1:48 am

The1exile wrote:
Hushpuppy wrote:Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars as one petty warlord fought another to possess the crown
I'm pretty sure "wracked" isn't a word, actually. Either "racked" or "wrecked", probably the first.
See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wrack. The word "wracked" is alive and well. :-)

"racked" wouldn't work in the sentence. And to me, it carries a bit more doom than "wreck". "Wracked" is to "wrecked" as "annihilated" is to "defeated".

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » August 25th, 2009, 8:22 pm

Hushpuppy wrote:I have been reading this over a few days, so if I repeat anything please forgive me. And as they say, "take what you like and leave the rest..."

Here's my review:

Scenario 1: properity (should be "prosperity")
Too many commas. It breaks the flow. Examples:

Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars, as one petty warlord fought another to possess the crown

Should be:

Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars as one petty warlord fought another to possess the crown
Hmm. I think its sometimes nice to add a pause for emphisis, but its possible I'm over using commas. Skipping the next bit of this post since its seems to be a continuation of the above point.
This should be one paragraph:
The few remaining villages in the area, poor and largely defenseless, relied on only a handful of royal troops to protect them.
In the small village of Alben east of the fords of Abez, Sergeant Gwadoc of the Wesnothan army musters the villagers to repel a raid, while a messenger rides desperately to bring help from the forts at Abez.

...By the way, should that be "Wesnothan" or "Wesnothian"?
I'm honestly not sure, and you're guess is as good as mine. I guess I could ask a developer regarding this point.
In "Time Over":
Prince Murdoch: After them! Drive them back from the fords!

I think this sounds better:
Prince Murdoch: After them! Drive them from the fords!
Better, if only because it marginally reduces the ammount of dialog in what I already acknowledge to be an unusually wordy campaign.
In Scenario 2: The Meeting with Prince Murdoch

Here you need the commas :-) :
Everyone was surprised that the Prince, of all people, showed up with reinforcements.
Ok.
I wonder if this should be capitalized:
Why does the Crown not act?
I don't know. Propper grammar isn't my greatest strength.
This sounds kind of Vulcan:
Indeed I am aware of what you speak

Maybe this?
But know that I am aware of what you speak
I don't find the current version to be a problem, frankly.
Also: "no mend to send" should be "no men to send".
Obviously. If Huston hasn't already changed it, I will.
Here, you have "Another purpose" and "as well", which is kind of repetitive:
Another purpose they served as well was to guard the Fords of Abez against invasion from the North.
Agreed, I'll make sure its changed.
Again an extra comma: "They are burning the villages, and killing all they find"

Try reading it like this: "They are burning the villages and killing all they find"
Does it really matter? Ie, is this just a question of preference, or an actual gramatical error? Again, propper grammar is not a strength of mine.
I think this should be one sentence:
I have managed to make contact with a Dwarvish Lord- the Dwarf Lord Glamaithsol of the Northern Alliance to be precise.
What was it originally (I believe Huston added this bit of dialog, as I don't recall writing it)?
I would rewrite this paragraph. At first I thought the dwarves hated the orcs, but then as I read towards the end I could see that they were at peace. Well anyway, I leave this for you and you can decide if you like it (in any event, "arrive" is used when you're going someplace, I think "return" is better for the last word of this paragraph).

Cavalryman: While I was with him I told him of the alliance between the orcs and the undead. He told me that he has known for some time now that the orcs were mustering but had no reason to attack, for they had done no harm. He did not know the orcs were waiting for an undead army to join them. He has sent a messenger to his superiors to find out what course of action he should take. He has also requested that I return with an ambassador in 10 days. I rode as fast as I could but it still took me 4 days to return.
For one thing, I'm hesitant to add exact ammounts of time, because that must be reconciled with both the distances involved and the length of the scenarios, and its too easy to make a mistake.

Secondly, I think that the above elaborates needlessly in what is already a very long and wordy dialog-only scenario. I haven't played this lately, so maybe Huston has added some more dialog here as well, but I think the above is a bit longer than what I originally wrote.

Keep in mind that as I was writing this, I was actively trying to reduce the length of what is probably the most dialog-heavy Wesnoth scenario I've ever written or for that matter seen.
I was slightly confused here. Do you think this is better?
Gwadoc: If you send a small force over the river, they can join the Alliance forces and outflank the orcs to the north. If after a few days' time you cross the ford with the bulk of your forces, perhaps we can then trap the orcs and ambush them in their camp. Then we can withdraw and face the undead host at the Forts.
General Addraenvan: You are assuming that the dwarves will be willing to help us.
It's ok, but I would have to check and make sure that it doesn't add to the length of the scenario dialog. I'm really only interested in changes that leave the scenario shorter, not longer, for reasons described above.
In Scenario 4:
"watch posts" is one word: "watchposts"
Noted.
"The Alliance forces were some miles to the north" should be "are" instead of "were".
Well, I was writing that from the cavalryman's point of view. He would have known where the Alliance forces were when he encountered them some days earlier.
...I think the issues regarding "their" and "there" have been covered.
Its a mistake I often make, I'm aware.
Extra comma:
Gwadoc: You may join with us, and help us clear this rabble of orcs from these lands

Also I think the word rabble is a little weak. I would think that orcs are a
scourge, as in:

Gwadoc: You may join with us and help to clear the scourge of orcs from these lands.
Noted. "Rabble" conveys contempt, but the orcs should at this point be viewed not only with contempt, but as a serious threat, comparable to the "barbarian hordes" that overran Rome. I agree with this change.
Under "Scenario 5":

Some problems with sentence structure and vernacular here:
The Pathfinder who stopped us at the signpost said the orcs are on the move. And led us as quickly as possible to Lord Glamaithsol. Only problem was, we found more than just dwarves there...

How about this?
The Pathfinder who stopped us at the signpost said the orcs are on the move, and led us as quickly as possible to Lord Glamaithsol. To our grave misfortune*, we found more than just dwarves there...

* (or simply, "Unfortunately," but I like the hoity-toity sound of "grave misfortune". Queue the ominous organ... :-) )
Fair point.
In the Introductory Dialog, "attacking" is missing an "a".
Noted.
Also, I think the flow is better like this:

Scout: The camp is not far ahead, Gwadoc.
Gwadoc: We shall use this camp as a rallying point.
Scout: But wait! What is this?! The orcs are attacking it!
Alolonna: We must first take it from the them.
Scout: I place myself at your disposal, Gwadoc.
Lord Glamaithsol: Greetings, men of Wesnoth! I regret we could not meet under happier circumstances!
Vadash: Wesnothians to the South. Kill them!
I'm not on my computer right now, and can't access the document where I saved the dialog. When I get home, I'll compare it to this, and see if it does flow better.
Under Time Over, the word "Orcish" is capitalized. In other places, it's not. As it describes a certain species, I don't think it needs to be capitalized. (think about this, "The manly soap cleaned my armpits..." "the human toll was very great..." all lower case)
Ok.
Under "You Have undoubtedly..." the "Have" is capitalized.
Ok.
Here:
Gwadoc: Wesnoth is not as powerful as it once was, but we do not forsake our friends easily.

...eep, if I was Lord Glamaithsol, would I accept such a wishy-washy declaration? Get rid of the word "easily."
Noted. I agree this should probably be changed.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll agree this campaign still needs a good deal of work story and dialog-wise, and any suggestions or criticisms are welcome.
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The1exile
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The1exile » August 27th, 2009, 11:29 am

Hushpuppy wrote:"racked" wouldn't work in the sentence. And to me, it carries a bit more doom than "wreck". "Wracked" is to "wrecked" as "annihilated" is to "defeated".

- the Pupp
Yeah, I don't think you meant "wreck", but I was unaware of the word's existence, as google had never heard of this form.

I still feel that "racked" is better (OED says "wracked" is merely an alternate spelling), if only because it's not a spelling error in firefox, but it's your choice.
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » September 2nd, 2009, 4:35 am

The1exile wrote:
Hushpuppy wrote:"racked" wouldn't work in the sentence. And to me, it carries a bit more doom than "wreck". "Wracked" is to "wrecked" as "annihilated" is to "defeated".

- the Pupp
Yeah, I don't think you meant "wreck", but I was unaware of the word's existence, as google had never heard of this form.

I still feel that "racked" is better (OED says "wracked" is merely an alternate spelling), if only because it's not a spelling error in firefox, but it's your choice.
If the current spelling is a legitimate alternative, I don't see any need to fix it. In any case, I'm working on getting the next few scenarios in right now. Once that's out of the way I can worry about going back and correcting errors. :)
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The_Latin_King » January 24th, 2010, 2:37 am

Whenever I get to the scenario "The council of Weldyn" I get an error message that reads: "Unknown Scenario", any solutions?

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » January 26th, 2010, 10:52 pm

My guess would be because no scenarios after that have been coded. This campaign is kind of on hold right now, due to Huston being busy and me not knowing coding (I'm just a writer for this one).
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Huston » February 15th, 2010, 9:41 pm

The_Latin_King wrote:Whenever I get to the scenario "The council of Weldyn" I get an error message that reads: "Unknown Scenario", any solutions?
i have gotten to coding it but i haven't gotten to coding scenarios past that, and what is the point of realeasing just a dialog scenario?
coded Rebellion During the Dark Age
Currently working on:
Era of the Future

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