Unit Spamming as a Strategy

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Crow_T
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Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Crow_T » July 10th, 2013, 9:09 pm

As much as I like to vary my army I find that spamming a single kind of unit, sometimes even a pretty crappy unit, can be very effective, in SP at least. Do any power players feel the same way? I imagine a constructive conversation could lead to some feedback here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38885

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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by WanderingHero » July 11th, 2013, 2:37 pm

Sometimes against the computour (Fire drakes are fun), but since every unit has strengths and weaknesses, trying this against humans can get your ass handed to you in an embarrassing fashion. I speak from experience here...

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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Paulomat4 » July 11th, 2013, 3:55 pm

I often do it in campaigns, when i'm fighting against drakes, like in the rise of wesnoth. They are all weak to pierce (or at least not resistant), and supported by Leadership and one or two white mages, they are incredibly effective. Also, i dont lose precious veterans against the heavy ranged damage. A nice sideeffect is, that in the end i have a pair swordsmen, or pikeniers more in the end of the scenario.
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Lord-Knightmare » July 11th, 2013, 4:08 pm

I remember when playing The Dark Hordes, there was a scenario in which you had to spam orcs and elves with Walking Corpses. (It was pretty funny seeing about eleven orcs and thirteen elves against fifty zombies :lol2: )

In Song of Fire, the player is actually advised to recruit waves of aragwaithi spearmen in the first part of the campaign. (I ended up spamming with Dwarven Fighters instead... :mrgreen: )

So, in some cases it is actually an effective strategy, especially when the only recruit you have accessed to is the Troll Whelp :twisted: . The campaign about Grog (I forgot the name again....) had this in its gameplay and enjoyed it very much.

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Aelaris
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Aelaris » July 11th, 2013, 10:16 pm

I don't deal with SP stuff. But in Multiplayer, the only spam that works is Orcish Grunt spamming. Mostly because they are the all-around best unit in the game, gold for gold. You can also do it with Drake Fighters, on a large enough map, for a force entirely flying at 6 speed. Both of these require you to be really good at using those units to their full potential, and may require at least a few support units.
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by alluton » July 12th, 2013, 4:33 pm

One scenario on IftU features only walking corpses and dwarven berserkers as recruits. Thats pretty spammy.
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Paulomat4 » July 12th, 2013, 4:46 pm

One scenario on IftU features only walking corpses and dwarven berserkers as recruits. Thats pretty spammy.
but if i remember it well, you get some dwarves at the beginning :D
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Sanae_Kotiya » July 18th, 2013, 6:10 am

Aelaris wrote:the only spam that works is Orcish Grunt spamming. Mostly because they are the all-around best unit in the game, gold for gold.
Wait, what? Seriously? I've found them to be good at flailing around helplessly for 2/3 of the day, but I didn't think that was a positive trait. They're cheap and have decent hitpoints, so they're good at blocking for ZoC, but anemic offense seems to be the rule with Northern units. That's why they have to soften everything up with poison first.


Now... spamming adepts against drakes? I've won that way.

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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by The Black Sword » July 18th, 2013, 1:07 pm

I've found them to be good at flailing around helplessly for 2/3 of the day,
Exactly. Then, in the remaining 1/3 of the day, they kill everything.

Having the large proportion of your army made up of a single unit is reasonably common, but it's almost always an improvement to mix some support in there. Orcs just get the closest without it.

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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by jakhtur » July 22nd, 2013, 5:51 pm

Well i think that spamming one unit type is never optimal strategy. Some times it can be effectve, but its rarely efficient. It can work when you have a unit that excel against most (or most important) unit of your enemy, and good or at least medicore vs the rest (like DA is superb against most of drakes, and not so bad vs burners and augurs). In most cases the power of spamming is becouse your enemies are prone to your "spam unit" like drakes/saurians vs cold and arcane or you are resistant to their attacks (like wose vs pointed sticks or skeleton vs most "normal attacks". Apart of wose case, its "stample unit that has unique characteristic" (wose cant be called stample unit).
Such tactic can work during 1st fights, when your enemy faces your units - with only few units good in fighting spamed units, and against huge "firepower-per-gold" or "hp per gold". Wose can bash spearman, skeletons can fight with them even during night, DA can kill clasher during night with one lucky attack etc.
But if your enemy can survive some time (and if he has mixture of unit he can counter you somewhere and retreat in other places) he will buy units that excel against you. Ulf against DA (with maybe poacher to screen them), burners/orc archers/mages against woses, augurs or shaman+archer vs clashers, skeletons vs spammed spearman, HI vs skeletons. There is always a solution, and after you spammed you can hardly change your tactic, you are slave of your army (as spamming is rather aggresive tactic, i hardly can imagine "defensive spamming tactic") and once the initiative comes to your enemy you are in serious trouble.
So yes it can work, yes it often gives some troubles to enemy (especially when map is small and game is quick, as your enemy dont have time and resource to recruit new troops) but in long run its not optimal.
Taking a lot of some kind of troops - that can work, but there are always some units that will improve your army by giving special abilities (poison, slow, ignoric ZOC), resitance or kinds of attack (like arcane or impact). If you spam one type of unit you will sooner or later face a unit that excel against your unit and you will have problem with advancing even during your part of the day.
Maybe the exception is with clasher against drakes, having some augurs is good but still it can work pretty well if you know that you are fighting drakes and your enemy does not (so you will probably be attack by fighters and burners).

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Aelaris
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Aelaris » July 26th, 2013, 4:30 am

Sanae_Kotiya wrote:
Aelaris wrote:the only spam that works is Orcish Grunt spamming. Mostly because they are the all-around best unit in the game, gold for gold.
Wait, what? Seriously? I've found them to be good at flailing around helplessly for 2/3 of the day, but I didn't think that was a positive trait. They're cheap and have decent hitpoints, so they're good at blocking for ZoC, but anemic offense seems to be the rule with Northern units. That's why they have to soften everything up with poison first.
For me it's more like "not dying for 2/3 of the day" and then "being effective during the night". They actually have the highest offense for Northies, and make themselves vital in normal play for that reason. But the combination of not dying while holding villages, and a decent offense, supported by their extreme cost effectivity, makes them, in my opinion, the all around best unit in the game.

Or to put it a different way, orcish grunts have the most offensive power per gold spent for any level 1 unit, sharing the title with spearmen. (Charging Horsemen, Backstabbing Thieves, and Goblin Spearmen have higher damage/cost ratios.) (It's a 1.5 ratio - 12 gold for 11x2=18 attack, and 14 gold for 7x3=21 attack.) They do suffer from force concentration problems, but honestly, having more units is overall a plus.

And, of course, each gold spent on a Grunt gives you 3.14 HP or so, which is awesome.
Sanae_Kotiya wrote:Now... spamming adepts against drakes? I've won that way.
Fun fact: Drake Fighter spam can counter that, due to superior movement. Adepts move 5 on foot, drake fighters move 6 in the air. If you're sufficiently clever, combat only ever connects during the daytime, and a third of the DAs are dead by the time they get a turn. Unlike Grunts, Fighters aren't an efficient unit. But when they don't have to protect anyone else, their speed is truly useable. (Same reason why some people go heavy Cavalry and Horsemen when fighting Rebels.)
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by arnaldo_br » August 27th, 2013, 12:22 am

I've just won the 3 first scenarios of The Rise of Wesnoth on hard with unit spammimg. First 2 scenarios i went all horsemen, and although i ended the first scenario 1 day later than i used to with a mix of spearmen and bowmen(mostly spearmen) i think it was a good strategy, because at the end of the scenario i had 2 knights(regreted this, should have made 1 lancer because of next scenario) and 1 horseman at 27/35 xp, which helped me to win the second in 7 turns, before orcs could kill my free heavy infantarymen

The 3rd scenario was pretty long, had 31/42 turns, but the all spearmen recruiting made the game tactically much simpler, as long i didnt have to complain about protecting ranged units, and left me with 5 swordsmen and some high xp spearmen, plus lvl 2 outlaw girl and lvl 2 haldric(he was lvl 0 when the scenario started) in the end of the scenario. By now i have 3 knights and 5 swordsmen and hope to get some lvl 2 mages on the next scenario. spamming may not be the best strategy on this campaign, but its working, and giving me lots of fun =D

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Crow_T
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Crow_T » August 27th, 2013, 12:47 am

Hey Arnaldo that is very interesting feedback. I spammed spearman in the first scenario of Antor, Son of Rheor, as well as Elf Horseman and Troll Whelps in different scenarios in A Vision Blinded. I remember reading here that someone spammed Elf Shaman to beat a pretty tough scenario in wither LoW or AOI. :lol2:

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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Elfarion » August 27th, 2013, 10:12 am

The scenario "Valley of Trolls" in AOI is a walk in the park when you recall shaman advancements and spam some other shamans. The same goes for "A Detour through the Swamps".
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Re: Unit Spamming as a Strategy

Post by Thrawn » August 27th, 2013, 6:12 pm

Crow_T wrote:Hey Arnaldo that is very interesting feedback. I spammed spearman in the first scenario of Antor, Son of Rheor, as well as Elf Horseman and Troll Whelps in different scenarios in A Vision Blinded. I remember reading here that someone spammed Elf Shaman to beat a pretty tough scenario in wither LoW or AOI. :lol2:
I'm pretty sure several people (myself included) beat HttT with only shamans recruited, back in the day.
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