Looking for suggestions

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NarcolepticFrog
Posts: 2
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:30 pm

Looking for suggestions

Post by NarcolepticFrog »

Hi,

I'm new to Wesnoth. When I play online I usually lose so badly that there is very little to learn from the game... so I've been playing against the computer for the last couple of days.

I have uploaded a replay of my most recent game. I was hoping people here might make general and specific comments about my strategy, specifically geared towards online play.

Thanks,

Travis.
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Bellerophon
Posts: 103
Joined: June 10th, 2009, 8:13 pm
Location: In the nearest bar.

Re: Looking for suggestions

Post by Bellerophon »

Let me put it this way: the only way that you will get better at playing against human opponents is to practice against human opponents, ai just doesn't cut it. Just go on the server and ask nicely if there's anyone that would help a newbie improve on his game or better yet host a game with a title such as: "PROS ONLY NOOBS STAY OUT" which is bound to attract a bucketload of n00bs.

...watching replay...woah, ai perforimng even worse than I remember, seriously; start playing on the server ASAP, watch some replays, especially those from high ranked ladder players, from which you can learn a lot and lurk on the strategies & tips subsection.

...and remember, nobody started out as t3h pwn3r3r :eng:
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norbert
Posts: 368
Joined: June 14th, 2009, 6:57 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Looking for suggestions

Post by norbert »

NarcolepticFrog wrote:[...] general and specific comments about my strategy
I'm not a very good player, but here's some feedback.

Red's village income was higher from the beginning. Red used two Wolf Riders to take villages, while blue didn't recruit any units with many movement points. The Heavy Infantrymen were not fast enough to reach wherever they were headed. Soon, red's income was 22 versus blue's 13. Blue did get to surround an Orcish Assassin, but this meant three fewer units to take villages. So, the first improvement would be: take more villages for income/healing/defense.

Blue attacked with single units from unwise locations. It's not useful to use a single Bowman to attack a Wolf Rider on a village: the wolfs health went to 24/31, but the wolf healed 8 HP when it was red's turn. Blue also used a single Mage to attack and stepped in water (20% defense) while doing so. After that mage got beaten up, blue didn't move the dying mage back but went in for another attack. So, the second improvement would be: attack from and to the right locations and preferably not with single units.

When red moved a Wolf Rider into blue's territory, blue did attack the wolf with several units but did not block the wolf with units on opposite sides. This meant the wolf could walk away into red's territory after the attack to recover. By the time this happened in the match, it was pretty much over for blue. Red started doing the marksman/poison thing with Orcish Assassins, kept taking villages, recruited more units, and so on.
NarcolepticFrog
Posts: 2
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:30 pm

Re: Looking for suggestions

Post by NarcolepticFrog »

norbert wrote:
NarcolepticFrog wrote:[...] general and specific comments about my strategy
I'm not a very good player, but here's some feedback.

Red's village income was higher from the beginning. Red used two Wolf Riders to take villages, while blue didn't recruit any units with many movement points. The Heavy Infantrymen were not fast enough to reach wherever they were headed. Soon, red's income was 22 versus blue's 13. Blue did get to surround an Orcish Assassin, but this meant three fewer units to take villages. So, the first improvement would be: take more villages for income/healing/defense.

Blue attacked with single units from unwise locations. It's not useful to use a single Bowman to attack a Wolf Rider on a village: the wolfs health went to 24/31, but the wolf healed 8 HP when it was red's turn. Blue also used a single Mage to attack and stepped in water (20% defense) while doing so. After that mage got beaten up, blue didn't move the dying mage back but went in for another attack. So, the second improvement would be: attack from and to the right locations and preferably not with single units.

When red moved a Wolf Rider into blue's territory, blue did attack the wolf with several units but did not block the wolf with units on opposite sides. This meant the wolf could walk away into red's territory after the attack to recover. By the time this happened in the match, it was pretty much over for blue. Red started doing the marksman/poison thing with Orcish Assassins, kept taking villages, recruited more units, and son on.
Thanks for the tips :) I should mention that I was red, though.
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norbert
Posts: 368
Joined: June 14th, 2009, 6:57 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Looking for suggestions

Post by norbert »

NarcolepticFrog wrote:Thanks for the tips :) I should mention that I was red, though.
Doh! :P So, you wrote you usually lose badly and then you attach a replay where you win easily. (I agree with Bellerophon that the AI sucked.) It's more useful when you attach a replay where you fail terribly, that also makes it easier for others to point out your mistakes. Also, as Bellerophon wrote: play against humans, on the MP server.
Yoyobuae
Posts: 408
Joined: July 24th, 2009, 8:38 pm

Re: Looking for suggestions

Post by Yoyobuae »

My first advice: Learn to shrug off losses. Wining is not that important, losing is not that bad. There is no real consequence to either result. At the end, the game just ends and you can start another one.

It's very hard to learn to control your own reaction to losing. Playing Wesnoth should be fun. Something to look forward to. Even if that means looking forward to losing. Joke a little. Talk to your opponent after the match. Learn to relax.

I've to work very hard to overcome the bad feeling of losing. But these day I always say to my opponent after losing: "wanna play another game?".

Second advice, villages are quite important. You should not lose a village to your enemy if you can easily take it first. Count hexes, recruit your initial army wisely. Multiplayer maps are designed such as you can always capture all/most villages by your second turn.

Units are also very valuable. In fact, there's a point in where capturing villages becomes counter productive if you end up losing too many units. Learn to balance out the importance of capturing villages vs the units that you would lose in your efforts. Sometimes it's better to retreat and lose villages if you can keep your units and kill the opponent's units instead. It's hard to tell which choice is better though on which situations. Experiment a bit.

Third advice, one way to understand Wesnoth is as several pools of resources. Your initial gold is a pool of resources, so it's the gold gained with village income. Also your units are a pool of resources. In fact combat can be analized as the interaction from your pool of units vs the enemy's units.

Ideally you should choose which unit types to form your pool of units according to what the enemy has. You should somewhat mirror the enemies units with appropiate counters. Ranged vs Melee. Magical vs Elusive. Each faction also has their specific counter for each unit type of the opponent.

Combat can be summarized as each player in turn using units of his pool to eliminate some units of the opponent's pool, by using his own units. This means that when you attack, you can choose in which order you're gonna take out the enemy's units.

For example, if you take out the enemy's melee units first use your ranged attackers, after he will end up with an army of pure ranged units. This means: A) he will have a hard time attacking your own ranged units B) you can freely attack him with your melee ones. So you put ranged units in front to block his attacks, then attack yourself with melee units, making sure you can block with ranged units again.

Your opponent can do the same. So frequently you'll need to decide which units you want to keep and which units you'll lose. Ideally you should keep whatever units that can do good damage to the opponent's units (considering the Time of Day of the following turns), that way your counter attack will be strong. Similarly, units that you cannot use to attack can be used as your frontline. Specially if those units will retaliate effectively against what the opponent has.

You also need to form your army such that the units that can attack, are effective against the opponent's units. Observing other players can be quite useful here. Watch their recruits and their enemy's recruits. You should start noticing what counters what.

Also mind where you place units. A unit is of no use if it can't reach the target you intended to use it against. Defense is not always important, only when the opponent will actually attack. You can easily convince the opponent not to attack by making the potential counter attack very painful. This in turn allows to more freely place your units (even on bad terrain).

I guess it's hard to explain/understand. The best way to learn is to simply play continually. Each game you experience will help you "see" details you previously didn't understand/didn't see. Observing other players also helps.
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