Northerners, need help

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silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Northerners, need help

Post by silent »

Despite how simple people make playing this faction, I cannot seem to get my head around it at all.

I really do not know where I'm going wrong with them, I go with the standard heavy push but it always seems to end in failure for me :annoyed:

A replay should be below, to demonstrate my point. It was a ladder vs Henry the 12th, we both random'd into our factions, he chose map and starting positions. The only significant thing I would say is I would normally play with a timer, rather than no time limit. Otherwise fairly standard.
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need_northerner_help.gz
Hopefully this works. 1.8.2 BTW
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Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3991
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: Northerners, need help

Post by Velensk »

Northerners are a difficult faction for me too. This is what I got when looking through the match.

Turn 1: I generally find that it is a good idea to have at least one water unit first turn on this map but this is a stylistic choice and the way you are doing it could be quite advantageous for an early rush.

Turn 2: No comment

Turn 3: No comment

Turn 4: A little bit strange that you choose to poison the one whom it will affect the least. It doesn't matter too much though it’s still best for him to retreat either way however it might have been good to send one unit back to heal a bit longer.

Turn 5: No comment

Turn 6: I’d have put the other goblin on the right side. You have enough defenders on the left already.

Turn 7: I feel you surrendered the village too easily. That grunt was a strong resilient grunt in order to break him he’d have had to take a risk with the horsemen. If you’d moved two goblins close by and kept the wolf on the flank for the counter then you’d present quite a credible threat with your counter attack. If you do not feel like taking a risk with the grunt then you should not have moved your leader out of the castle as it would serve no point. If he takes the village you certainly aren't going to want to take it back with your leader because that would leave all the counter attackers exposed at the wrong time of day (and probably wounded).

Turn 8: It may have been better to wait for the attack on the left for a better time of day. Probably fine though.

Turn 9: I didn’t see it last turn but leaving you naga in the deep water was a mistake. Had he been in the shallow water he might have gotten chewed up less badly however now you are in a very poor position as he will likely be able to kill the naga and capture the water village while you have no good counter attack ready. You could have moved much more aggressively on the right and gotten away with it because if he attacks you at dusk he’ll have to stick around to fight at night, the way you moved makes it easy for him to retreat.

Turn 10: No comment.

Turn 11: You made a critical tactical error during the attack on the village probably owing to assuming that one of your two grunts would land a blow. You did not scoot the grunt on the south-east hexside north a hex to attack from between the unwounded spearman and cavalry which denied your other grunt the opportunity to break open the defense. Now as that is a rather poor tactical position it probably would have been better to attack with the other grunt first to check to see if it would be necessary to have better odds of attacking the village, if you had you would have found out that it was necessary and it could definitely have been worth it.

Turn 12: No comment

Turn 13: It very well may not have been worth it to send those units back to grab those kills.

Turn 14: It seems a bit too early to press forward again to me.

Turn 15: I suspect a wolf is not what you want against the force you are facing. If it were more fencers/mages/archers/ and less cavalry/spearmen maybe the speed would be worth it but I imagine that at the moment you’d get better use out of an assassin or an archer.

Turn 16: It might actually have been worth it to poison the spearman on the village as bait. If he attempts to defend by leveling the spearmen then he’d have to bring several units (or the horseman) to weaken the assassin which would have left them vulnerable to counter attack. In this and other I feel that you should have moved less with how exposed you were in mind and more with what opportunities to attack your location would present and how exposed the enemy would be if he attacked you.

Turn 17: The attack on the left felt a little half hearted and the move on the right seemed unwise. Though with your positioning on the left I suppose there wasn’t much you could have done. I’m curious why you choose to finish off the archer with the wolf rather than with the grunt, the grunt had a better chance to kill (75% vs about 50%) that would have freed the spot and allowed another unit to attack.

Turn 18: At this point the strategic situation has turned against you because you failed to force a retreat at night so now his cavalry will have a chance to run you down at day. The wolf on the right is trappable thus effectively marked as dead.

Turn 19: No comment

Turn 20: Your lack of navel power is going to become a pain.

Turn 21: It is going to be very hard to come back from that. Northerners have no real way of dealing with level two cavalry other than poison and brutal attrition.

Turn 22: No comment

Turn 23: No comment

Turn 24: Although very successful, your offense will leave you very susceptible to a potentially brutal counter attack. It still might have been worthwhile simply because the tide is against you and any risk that could tip it back might be worthwhile but still it could also have been better to retreat and play it safe.

Turn 25: No comment

Turn 26: No comment

Turn 27: Some of your old bad luck turned around for you though probably a bit late.

Turn 28: Unless you are really worried about counter attack it would have been better to attack the fencer. Sure you don’t have great odds to kill however all that rolling the dice will cost you is about 10-15 hp from each grunt and could solve problems down the line. I think that it might have been better to pick up either archers or goblins for the right side than another wolf but we’ll see.

Turn 29: You are getting reckless (probably a bit tired too). Pushing that deep will make it hard to retreat.

Overall: You played a bit defensively at the wrong times, remember that it doesn't matter how exposed your units are if your opponent isn’t going to attack you regardless. There were a couple of moments where you could have bumped up your chances of success on important engagements that could have changed the game in your favor. I would also lay claim that the choice of map did not help (not that I think that northerners are underpowered on it, merely that it inflates the effects of luck and has narrow fronts that can make attacks chancy. It seemed that in the case of this match a large number of small mistakes added up over time.

EDIT: the other major factor was your opponents random leader which rendered you unable to force the cavalry to retreat via poison, not allot you could have done about that though.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
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