Trash my Knalgan strategy

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Kanapka
Posts: 130
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 2:15 pm
Location: Poland

Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Kanapka » June 3rd, 2010, 2:17 pm

Hi.
I was playing Knalgans(mine, picked) vs. Loyalists(randomed) on Freenlands. While i was able to defend, i suffered to much onslaught to be able to launch a proper attack. That caused the game to be very stalematish and pretty long (after about 30 turns we decided to call it a draw). Moreover, as the first turns involved little killing, many troops were accumulated, and flanking the enemy was kindof impossible for me.

My question is: how could I have broken the Loy's defence? After each Loyalist attack my troops were too worn down to attack, and i never managed to steal a village.

Would it be a good idea to keep it this way (i had an advantage in killed units, and at the end i managed to get L2s), level more units and then attack? Or would the high upkeep destroy me?

The problem is that many of my games turn out as very defensive and lenghty ones. What can i do with it?

I attach the replay.
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The_Freelands_replay_Kanapka_vs_Slarge.gz
Said replay.
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donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » June 5th, 2010, 10:37 pm

Kanapka wrote:Hi.
I was playing Knalgans(mine, picked) vs. Loyalists(randomed) on Freenlands. While i was able to defend, i suffered to much onslaught to be able to launch a proper attack. That caused the game to be very stalematish and pretty long (after about 30 turns we decided to call it a draw). Moreover, as the first turns involved little killing, many troops were accumulated, and flanking the enemy was kindof impossible for me.

My question is: how could I have broken the Loy's defence? After each Loyalist attack my troops were too worn down to attack, and i never managed to steal a village.

Would it be a good idea to keep it this way (i had an advantage in killed units, and at the end i managed to get L2s), level more units and then attack? Or would the high upkeep destroy me?

The problem is that many of my games turn out as very defensive and lenghty ones. What can i do with it?

I attach the replay.
In general, it's best to ask questions where you don't have to watch a 30 turn replay to be able to have an answer. Just describe the situation, as best you can, and then I think you might actually start getting some replies :) If you are looking at ways in which to avoid lengthy, drawn-out games where both sides build up and just stare at each other... which usually ends in the attacker being butchered horribly, or the game being called a draw... you might be interested at looking at my "blitzkrieg" archive. In general, I tend to recruit for mobility early on, then strike the enemy's weakest position. In general, you look to capitalize off of the fact that the enemy hasn't had a chance to put together a fully cohesive defense yet, and his troops are still busy getting villages.
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

Oh_Hi
Posts: 3
Joined: February 6th, 2010, 11:45 am

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Oh_Hi » June 9th, 2010, 6:19 pm

A possible idea is a stall.

When you hit around 11 units you stop buying new ones and just sit on your villages. Your opponent will likely have a very upkeep, so that you gain 3-5 gold per turn. If you have around 70 gold you can make a timing attack to a vulnerable area at night and try to take the game. Because dwarfs are very effective defenders you can have fewer units than your opponent without getting minced right away.

Of course your opponent can diable this strategy if he attacks with full force at daylight before you start buying units. Because your advantage is relativly small even a single lost village in this daylight attack is painful. On the other hand your night attack with 3 dwarfs who hold that front in the early game and then attack with your new forces + 2 footpads who can be moved there + 5 newly recruited units and probably a griffon can be very devasting.

Kanapka
Posts: 130
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 2:15 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Kanapka » June 9th, 2010, 6:33 pm

The problem is that stall works when there's little fighting, and i was attacked every day, and pushed to deep defence.

Anyway, after reading donkey_noob_trash1's post and thinking a bit i figured out that the problem is one of the problems i need to solve alone (watching/playing). I thought that the topic will get outdated, so there's no need to reply.

I think the topic gives little information on strategy, therefore should be closed/deleted. Tell me if i need to notify someone or just leave the topic to die natural death ;)

TheSilentOne
Posts: 21
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 11:32 am

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by TheSilentOne » June 10th, 2010, 6:33 am

The reason you can't break loyalist defence is because knalgan are slow as hell, good static units(therefore you can defend) but not much of moving units.

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Herduk
Posts: 97
Joined: August 18th, 2005, 9:19 am
Location: Bergamo - Italy

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Herduk » June 10th, 2010, 8:01 am

TheSilentOne wrote:The reason you can't break loyalist defence is because knalgan are slow as hell, good static units(therefore you can defend) but not much of moving units.
Not true.
Dwarves are slow as hell.
Griphons, outlaw units NOT.

You should mix your army with strong defenders like dwarves and fast units (outlaws) to grab village and lure enemy units where your army can destroy them.

At the moment i cannot open the replay, sorry if my words sounds a bit generic
Don't bother a dwarf.. you can argue with his hammer!

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Caphriel » June 10th, 2010, 12:29 pm

In general, against Loyalists, the Knalgans need to use a lot of outlaw units. Poachers do 6-4 at night against Loyalist mounted units, and thieves are important damage dealers. Footpad provide you flankers to keep them from getting away at night.

The other way I've seen this matchup played is to recruit almost entirely dwarves, with enough outlaws to fill terrain and cover wide flanks, and attempt to crush the Loyalist offensive during the day.

In terms of breaking the Loyalist's defense, depending on terrain and remaining HP, and traits, ulfs can take out spearmen and cavalrymen at night. If you can break a hole in the line, you can get units behind them and backstab.

Velensk
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Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Velensk » June 10th, 2010, 12:38 pm

Kind of hard to get the flank you need for thieves on the freelands after critical mass though. Ulfserkers are key but it's really hard to get efficient use of them in this case.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Caphriel » June 10th, 2010, 2:36 pm

Freelands is a hard map to play against Loyalists on in many cases because of that one village with no terrain at all around it. Actually, Freelands is probably my least favorite commonly played mainline 1v1 map because the narrowness of the fronts tends to encourage very bland strategy, in my opinion.

Critical mass can be addressed by actively trying to keep the game from reaching critical mass, but that's a style choice in addition to a strategy decision, and can't always be effectively achieved.

Kanapka
Posts: 130
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 2:15 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Trash my Knalgan strategy

Post by Kanapka » June 11th, 2010, 12:46 pm

I was using outlaws at the begining(first night attack), but then day come and i ran like hell, while dwarves took defensive positions. I had some poachers, but thieves seemed useless to me, because i could not flank the enemy (too many units). Maybe i needed more poachers, as i had only one.

The other problem was that the dwarves were too slow to cross the grassland on right and left flank on one turn, whle loyalists could. Due to that, any attack would have to be launched using only outlaws, and the dwarves would cover them on the second turn. As the outlaws are fragile, I wasn't able to attack (having mostly poachers in my outlaw part of the army), because spearmen would kill them/hurt them so bad that they'd become useless. Again, should i have some poachers to cover my archers ? (Probably yes). However, poacher deal little damage and are not really an attacking unit.

The game looked like Caphriel's second way of playing it (dwarven defence). But a good player would see that his attack will fail, and not lose his army during day.

Thanks for your answers.

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