You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

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Turuk
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Turuk » May 26th, 2009, 8:54 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:will there ever be a time when the factions are perfectly balanced and wont need to be changed anymore?
Nothing is ever perfect, but most of the ongoing changes are minor tweaks by the MP devs in order to work towards the perfection.
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by csparrow » June 5th, 2009, 10:20 am

I think the poacher is underpowered comparing it to units that cost the same. the bowman who has 33 hp (compared to the poacher 32) an attack of 4-2 and 6-3 and the same in every thing else but the poachers attacks (3-1 and 4-4) are inferior completely.

also a unit which is rarely ever used,the ogre a young ogre only does 5-3 damage it may have 42 hp but i would take puny elven fighter (5-4 melee) any day and the young ogre costs more!
and ogres even with 68 hp are still pathetic with a 10-3 attack at level 2

but for the most part alot of the units are well balanced
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by teg » June 5th, 2009, 12:22 pm

csparrow wrote:I think the poacher is underpowered comparing it to units that cost the same. the bowman who has 33 hp (compared to the poacher 32) an attack of 4-2 and 6-3 and the same in every thing else but the poachers attacks (3-1 and 4-4) are inferior completely.
You can't just compare poacher and archer, you have to compare Knalgan and Loyalists. Poachers are realy useful as a Knalgan unit. The terrain defenses of the poacher are also better than the archer's.

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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by JW » June 5th, 2009, 4:24 pm

csparrow wrote:I think the poacher is underpowered comparing it to units that cost the same. the bowman who has 33 hp (compared to the poacher 32) an attack of 4-2 and 6-3 and the same in every thing else but the poachers attacks (3-1 and 4-4) are inferior completely.

also a unit which is rarely ever used,the ogre a young ogre only does 5-3 damage it may have 42 hp but i would take puny elven fighter (5-4 melee) any day and the young ogre costs more!
and ogres even with 68 hp are still pathetic with a 10-3 attack at level 2

but for the most part alot of the units are well balanced
Poachers are chaotic in a neutral faction, bowmen are lawful in a lawful faction. Also read previous post.

But yes, Ogres and Young Ogres suck. They suck even more since they have no level 3 unit either.

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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by lindsay40k » June 6th, 2009, 2:29 am

Hi

As y'all can see, I'm pretty new here, but I've been playing TBS & skirmish games for a good decade. I'm mostly playing Wesnoth with a friend who favours the Rebels, whilst I like the Undead. I seem to be quite easily thrashing her most of the time and, from what I gather, there seems to be quite a few people regard this match-up as unbalanced in the Undead's favour. Now, I've played some games as Rebels against Undead, and not had much luck in developing a reliable counter-strategy, so I was hoping some confident Rebel players could give my Undead a good kicking to show us how it's done?

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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by csparrow » June 6th, 2009, 7:34 am

another unit (yes, i know this is about factions but you need balanced units to have a chance of having balanced factions) i think is unbalanced is the fencer compared to the saurian skirmisher.

the skirmisher has the same speed and melee attack (but the fencers is blade and skirmishers is pierce) also comparable resistances and hp, but the skirmisher has no range attack like the skirmisher and cost more. even with its better defense it still doesn't hold up to its saurian counter part. :x
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by shodan » June 6th, 2009, 7:53 am

csparrow wrote:another unit (yes, i know this is about factions but you need balanced units to have a chance of having balanced factions) i think is unbalanced is the fencer compared to the saurian skirmisher.

the skirmisher has the same speed and melee attack (but the fencers is blade and skirmishers is pierce) also comparable resistances and hp, but the skirmisher has no range attack like the skirmisher and cost more. even with its better defense it still doesn't hold up to its saurian counter part. :x
wat

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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Velensk » June 6th, 2009, 11:00 am

You shouldn't compare units to units but what you said didn't even make sense in that context.

Saurians have a ranged attack and better movement costs and some better resistances
Fencers have higher defence everywhere (except swamp/sand/cave) and other resistances are better

That is a short summery of the diffrences. I don't understand what you were saying, and I don't see why this is a problem.
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Turuk » June 6th, 2009, 3:24 pm

Units fulfill a function within a faction, each faction is not supposed to have an exact counterpart in another faction.
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by csparrow » June 7th, 2009, 12:30 am

even so they should still get the same bang for their buck no matter which faction they choose. units shouldn't be made identical but their cost should reflect the unit they are. Simply put better unit more cost. I don't care how strong or weak a unit is as long as that is reflected in the cost.
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Turuk » June 7th, 2009, 12:33 am

Uh-huh, and you do not think the multiplayer developers who have sent years balancing the factions have not taken all of these points into account?
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by lindsay40k » June 7th, 2009, 1:50 am

Indeed. A chaotic ranged unit in a neutral faction can be worth more in its context than a slightly stronger and tougher lawful ranged unit in a lawful faction.
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by csparrow » June 7th, 2009, 5:52 am

I see what your saying, but the skirmisher is powerfull for its cost and it is a chaotic unit in a lawful faction


:hmm: maybe it is just that saurian skirmishers are just too strong because comparing them to the loyalist fencer makes the fencer look weak
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by silent » June 7th, 2009, 11:33 am

csparrow wrote:I see what your saying, but the skirmisher is powerfull for its cost and it is a chaotic unit in a lawful faction


:hmm: maybe it is just that saurian skirmishers are just too strong because comparing them to the loyalist fencer makes the fencer look weak
It might be because loyalists are pretty pierce heavy, or pierce vulnerable, that the saurian skirmisher seems so good in comparison. In certain match-ups, some units seem god-like counters, while in others, they are pretty poor. Saurians are great against loyalists for their pierce resistance and high def, but are lousy against the undead.

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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by lindsay40k » June 7th, 2009, 12:40 pm

csparrow wrote:I see what your saying, but the skirmisher is powerfull for its cost and it is a chaotic unit in a lawful faction
Even better! This means that when your line units are at their weakest, your supporting skirmishers are at their strongest, and can either act as a scarecrow to make attackers wary or sneak through their lines to nerf Dark Adepts and the like.

The Fencer, on the other hand, is of limited use when Loyalists are at their weakest.

Balance is a tricky thing that needs a bigger-picture view based on testing, it really can't be figured out with theory alone.
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