Heir to the Throne: Portraits

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Guidrion
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Guidrion » May 21st, 2011, 10:59 pm

Loving it... wait, I said it already... Lovint it A LOT!

The elvished version is very nice (the fact he's properly shaved is a nice difference). I really like the glad version. The distinction is interesting: it really tells "I have seen war".

I'll however second Thespaceinvader about the sword. When I look at him, I just want to say: "that is not the way, boy. It is not a great sword that is needing two hands to swing it!" (Syrio Forel's lesson for those who don't watch that show)

The reworked version of Lisa is just perfect!
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Kraus
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Kraus » May 22nd, 2011, 4:07 am

Li'sar is just awesome! Beyond that, even! :D

The new touches to Konrad are very good. I really like that better. But now comes a question: he's not any better armoured without the elvish things, so why should he ever change to the dwarven armour? Would it make any sense to actually rid him of the chainmail while in elven armour, to justify the change of apparel halfway through the campaign? If you really want to keep the chainmail, I'd say you don't really need to bother with both an elvish, and a human look - the elven version would work more than fine 'till the end of the campaign, I'd say.

If I were asked, I'd consider two options:

1) Either just finish the elven concept you have now, or

2) Rid the elven armour fo chainmail, and make the change of portrait halfway through the campaign (once they meet the dwarves) more distinct: as in, keep the chainmail in there. That should be sufficent plating. There either keep the elven stuff and just add the chain (Dwarven mithril?), or add the chain and change the plating too. Add a couple of lines of text about the dwarves granting him the piece of armour, and probably add his defences by +10 to pierce/blade, or something.
Spoiler:
Obviously the second one is more work, but it might be fun. Either option might work fine, though. Right now the elven version is just so much better than the original, that I don't feel it's justified to make more than one set of portraits unless you make it really distinct. :)

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ps. I can't describe how much I love Li'sar. She's perfect.
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LordBob
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by LordBob » May 22nd, 2011, 7:26 am

Aside from angry Konrad's sword size (I do agree with earlier comments), I'd also like to point that something in his face makes him look older than the other variants. I'm thinking it's a combination of a slightly larger chin and a little less neck than expected. It's really not much,but now is the right time to get rid of these minor lineart fixes.

Regarding the elvish/human outfit variants (both looking great by the way), for minimal adaptation work I'd suggest:
- replace the chain mail with a short-sleeved padded leather tunic or gambeson on "elvish" Konrad, since it has rougly the same shape and behaviour as mail.
- replace any metal plating with the kind of polished/hardened leather you used on your later elvish characters: it would increase coherency with other elven-made gear and make it very clear that the boy was equipped by elves, while retaining very similar shapes when it comes to drawing .

Last but not least, I'm not certain you absolutely have to produce two complete sets of portraits for Konrad: it might be worth a check of his actual dialogue lines, considering the amount of work involved.
My two cents anyway :)

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Sgt. Groovy » May 22nd, 2011, 4:37 pm

I think Konrad's sword hilt should be longer if you're going to show him with a two-handed grip like that.
Indeed. There has to be enough room to keep the hands apart:

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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by thespaceinvader » May 22nd, 2011, 4:43 pm

AT the very least, there should be room to get both hands ON the hilt, he's currently got one of them gripping the pommel AFAICT.
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Ellisae
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Ellisae » May 22nd, 2011, 4:54 pm

Isn't it just a hand-and-a-half sword as it is right now? It seems awkward to me too, but I think I remember something about those existing.
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Velensk » May 22nd, 2011, 5:00 pm

A friend I know has a sword about that length and although the hilt is a little shorter it shouldn't be awkward to handle one handed. It would indeed be a little awkward to use one handed though you could (probably be more useful to have your second hand free to defend/grab/use a shield though).
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Dixie » May 22nd, 2011, 5:38 pm

Ellisae wrote:Isn't it just a hand-and-a-half sword as it is right now? It seems awkward to me too, but I think I remember something about those existing.
AFAIK, "a hand and a half" doesn't refer to the size of the hilt as much as it refers to the length of the blade (strenght needed to wield the weapon). The hilt should still be able to accomodate both hands comfortably, I think.
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Kraus
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Kraus » May 22nd, 2011, 6:03 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword

So yeah. :)

Also, I like LordBob's idea of the reinforced leather. But the thing about two sets, one for early campaign and one for later, is, I think, just a matter of whether Kitty has time and energy to do that. It's a cool concept, and would add a lot to the campaign, but the campaign would work just as well without the nifty details. :)

But with the elven gear the chain mail seems a bit weird in any case. Toughened leather it should be. I don't know about the metal plates. They're pretty cool as it is.
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Jetrel
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Jetrel » May 23rd, 2011, 5:44 am

The "konrad glad" one isn't working for me, and from covering it up, I think it's just the mouth that's bugging me. The rest of the portrait (esp, rest of the face, lines around the eyes and such) all look great.

One theory is that the portrait is such that his head is viewed from below, but the curvature of the upper-jaw's teeth suggests them being viewed from above.

Another thing that occurred to me, and this might be a particular of some facial types, but that the lips seem more natural if the sides of the upper-lip "fold flat" (or that the lip rotates inward there) when pulled back, whereas the middle center remains "pillowed" and round.


Edit: took a cheap swing at it, see what you think. I edited absolutely nothing but the mouth, and that, only just the bit I'd mentioned about the upper-lips, and the teeth.
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Daxion
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Daxion » May 23rd, 2011, 7:52 am

Regarding the sword:
There are numerous examples of sword with such a hilt (Gehilts), e.g. in Wiener Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer. However most fencing books from 1400 onwards show swords (swords that are wielded with 2 hands) that have enough room for 2 hands on the hilt with the pommel (Knopf oder Kloss) visible. It is notable, that the later the source is that you look at the longer the hilt is up to a length for 3 hands plus pommel.
However even a 2 handed sword can be wielded by one hand, since they usually weight only around 1.5kg. If you (Kitty) want to know more details you should probably visit Zornhau e.V. in Offenbach, since most of them have alot more knowledge than I do.

But historical facts don't really count in fantasy, I would say it looks unbalanced seeing that 2 handed grip without the pommel...

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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by Sgt. Groovy » May 23rd, 2011, 3:04 pm

I'm not sure about the lips, but Jetrel's edit certainly fixes the "horse's teeth" problem that was bugging me too, though I couldn't see why exactly.
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

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johndh
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by johndh » May 25th, 2011, 2:10 am

Does Konrad perhaps look a little too much like Deoran?
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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kitty
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by kitty » May 26th, 2011, 8:46 pm

Some progress on Konrad... The elvish version will be a bit more different from the human one than in my previous attempts, but I feel that it is there now.
Plus a series of expressions, I will do most of them in both costumes since he changes it pretty much in the middle of the campaign not after two or three scenarios so that it would make sense to count which ones will be needed... The glad one got a new mouth per Jet's to the point critique of the teeth' angle, but the lips stayed the same, I see enough caucasians where the lips work like that. And the angry one's chin shrank and neck extended as per LB's critique. The Sceptre of Fire version will likely spark some debate about the sceptre's design - the ruby is giant as Jetrel always described him plus it has the typical handle (is there a historical prototype to reference?). I'm pretty angry with myself I just realized that Konrad wears his gear the wrong way in this version - I flipped all the portraits all the time and completely missed it. Grr. Changing that is nearly a complete redraw...


And thank you all for tons of input - just too much to reply in detail. Sorry.

johndh: Seriously? Yes, both are young white males. Deoran's face is more elongated and his nose is more slender, he has freckles and his hair is really red - Konrad's face is wide and his hair is brown with only a slight reddish tint plus he has a really wide nose. I really don't see it...
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zookeeper
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Re: Heir to the Throne: Portraits

Post by zookeeper » May 27th, 2011, 6:41 am

Looking good, just a few things to consider:

Most importantly, even after giving it some thought I'm not sure how the scepter variant should be used: when he gets the scepter, should the scepter variant simply become his new neutral portrait, or should it also replace some (all?) of his other expressions too? I doubt you want to make a scepter variant of all his expressions nor prevent him from displaying expressions when he has the scepter, so I suppose the best way is to simply replace the neutral portrait with it? Of course, one solution would be to have no scepter portrait at all, but that doesn't sound very nice either. :hmm:

Secondly, in the angry expression he has his hands close together, whereas with a two-handed sword you'd really want to have the hands spaced out for leverage, meaning in this case that the lower hand ought to be on the pommel or just above it.

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