1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

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Velensk
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Velensk » October 27th, 2010, 9:35 pm

For the sake of everyone else who has interest I will repeat what I answered to Rigors pm to me here.
I have noted to you before (I don't know if you remember) that I have been having problems with lawful pushes on the second day before. In this case he didn't even have to push, you as p2 captured one of his villages on the last turn of night allowing him to counter attack at dawn.

That being said, I still agree that loyalists/drakes are a problem. I have made a couple changes to help address them in a more recent version for 1.9 however I don't think it will be enough to fix the problem to a great extent. I am having problems trying to figure out more areas that are good to add terrain that won't damage the dynamics.

I don't think that the way to balance this map would be to shift the ToD around. There is an ugly flip side to shifting the ToD a turn earlier and that is that p1 chaotic rushes become near impossible to resist in some match-ups. Now chances are that running from one of these chaotic rushes would be less of a sacrifice than running from a lawful push on the second day however by the second day a chaotic faction will have a bit more leeway in how they react.
@Black Sword, your replay went corrupt on about turn 4 for me but I did watch through the ensuing mess long enough to see your suggestion. It seems quite valid to me.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Velensk
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Velensk » October 28th, 2010, 7:33 pm

I probably should not be posting this here however I do not know the email of the person who requested this replay and he does not have a forum account to pm this too.

This is a match vs a computer with 200 extra gold and +18 income where I play as rebels without mages or woses against undead (who recruited only ghosts and skeletons). After it is clear that I have victory I droided my side and it started to recruit mages/woses but since none of them reached the fray I don't think it can be considered a strike against the demonstration.

For 1.9.1
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"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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nani
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by nani » November 6th, 2010, 11:05 pm

Days of the Flying Dragons
Image
A match between my Drakes(P1) against Rigor's Dwarves (P2) on the new version of Silverhead Crossing,
featuring a cursed village, hodoric actions including an outlaw leader not having any probs with doing the
dirty work himself, omnipresent gryphs, but all of it together by far not enough to stop the army of flying
fighters led by one of them revealing himself as the lost untouchable Blademaster... ?! see yourself!

p.s.: Rigor forced me to up this. :P
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tekelili
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by tekelili » November 11th, 2010, 6:00 pm

Darves vs Drakes on freelands.

When I play drakes I always feel myslef quite unskilled. I wonder why my progression with this faction is so slow and would like any skilled player teach me how to play them well. General advices as take adventage of movility dont help me to improve further more... so here is a game to use as example. I played darves and I think my oponent played quite good drakes in this game, but he had the same problems I use to have with drakes, mostly lack of units to protect villages all time and cycle to heal.

So, could any drake warlord ilustrate me how drakes could have managed better in this game? :)
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Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Yoyobuae
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Yoyobuae » November 11th, 2010, 8:37 pm

Drakes need not protect all of their villages all the time. The cost of protecting a village in terms either HP (if unit survives) or gold (if it doesn't) frequently makes it holding a village the worst of the two evils.

But drakes are well suited (speed/damage) to kill (or trap/kill) the village stealing units to compensate for the loss of villages. It might even be preferable to do so as the gained exp is very useful for drakes.

All drake/saurian lv2 units are simply amazing. The extra gold might temporarily give the advantage to the opponent, but eventually the resulting lv2 drake units even the odds (or outright win the game for them).

So that's one potential alternative to village sitting (which drakes do so poorly). Just make sure to be able to trap and kill any village stealers. Make the enemy pay dearly for every stolen village :twisted:.

The gold the enemy loses with each kill reduces the advantage gained by village stealing, awards drakes experience and keeps the number of enemy units from exploding (for a while at least).

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leocrotta
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by leocrotta » November 12th, 2010, 1:27 pm

tekelili wrote:So, could any drake warlord ilustrate me how drakes could have managed better in this game? :)
@Dwarf
Turn 4:
Even if the ctk is low, always try avoiding the backstab, let him take 27,16 and send clasher to guard 30,19 probably.
Threaten open vills at night with augurs. While seeing the threat, I think the burner is a misrecruit at that ToD.
Additionally Fighter guarding 20,15 unnecessarily. A lot follows in east ... (no clasher melee unit for ulf, lost augur...
and in near future his eastern units are able to swap over to help in center)
Turn 6:
Don't attack 16,14 with Fighter at night, even ranged, you let him damage a unit while being on good terrain while
having a slight retreat there included. Additionally you partly lose one daytime attacker.
Turn 10:
Basically same procedure with the backstab. Unnecessary trying to guard the vill with a glider.
The almost leveled poacher as a result.
...
Well looking further I move over to
> General drakish hints:
Avoid backstab, try learning to foresee what the enemy will do and base your attack on that info,
don't let yourself caught in your enemy's attack, let them take vills and take them back, when it's
your time (should only be problematic against orcs and loys), don't get yourself into a fight on
terrain-clusters with ≥60% for your enemy. Try avoiding those by using your mobility.
If you get into the economic disadvantage (happens most often for drakes probably),
rise concentration :wink: every move, every recruit is important, think more, getting the upperhand
is often still possible and as Yoyobuae already said the lvl2s are amazing, imho especially the Fighter.

Those were long 2 cents, never mind me if you don't agree with what I wrote.
Just my opinion, nothing more. For better information search the forum for the howtos. :)

best regards.
Live long and prosper.

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tekelili
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by tekelili » November 12th, 2010, 2:41 pm

Thanks leocrotta. Quite specific advices. I will try learn for them and, hopefully, dont suck so much with this faction in future.

EDIT: thinking about your are advices... If drake player has to play so well, think so much and have no mistakes to beat a player whose tactic most time was push his units and "damage any enemy in path/ steal any village available", doesnt that mean drake player has some kind of unadventage. I mean, if a faction give you more chances of do a fatal mistake than other, isnt it some kind of unbalance?

This remember me chess, where is supossed that if you play perfect with black pieces you wont lose even if white also plays perfect, but black side is considered disaventaged because is more difficult play it perfect.

Just asking here, I am not sure about this.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Yoyobuae
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Yoyobuae » November 13th, 2010, 12:28 am

I don't exactly consider it a disadvantage. It's more like a trade off.

The opponent can gain extra gold and start spamming units. But he/she is more likely to lose those units trying to steal/hold villages on enemy territory (specially against heavy hitters, like drakes). He/she will likely need to yield several advantages and expose his/her units in order to steal/hold those villages. This results in higher number of losses for him/her, which can be replaced with fresh units (using that extra gold) but the gained experience points are lost for good. All of the fighting happens far away from his/her keep/leader, any units that are in transit are not actively fighting.

Drakes lose some gold with the stolen villages. But they can keep their units safe more easily, since they don't necessarily need to sit in villages or block the enemy to prevent village stealing. There is lack of gold so it is paramount to keep units alive. But with some of the enemy units tied village sitting, it shouldn't be a problem for drakes to gang up on a target and kill it quickly before it can retaliate. Keeping units alive + killing the enemy means lots of experience accumulation, with the possibility of eventual lv2 units. That's when all the hard work pays off. :) Also they are fighting on their turf, so recruits will probably see action right away and there will be plenty of friendly villages around to heal. The leader (drake leader :)) will also be able to contribute in the battle.

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Rigor
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Rigor » December 1st, 2010, 10:00 pm

Coming back to great games:

Arcanclave Citadel isnt exactely the map everybody wishes for when facing a highly capable opponent because the numberous possibilities can easily make u go crazy. neki played p1 undead, while i received orcs.

In the beginning you can see a lot of lvl0 recruits on both sides because it simply pays off to buy them now and pay for them...never. nekis recruits were pretty long-term and as i saw that he had a damn lot of units he wont need to pay i got jealous and attacked him asap :mrgreen: so he might lose them/the vills they protect. very soon i lucked out some lvl0s although i would have been content with only damaging as well.

trying the other keep which has no access to the surrounding castle hexes and therefore doesnt support a flank attack was a really special plan of mine: hacking my way through the top-center killing lvl0 on my way and blocking the narrow corridors with my annoying trolls during daytime. the bad thing is, neki can still spit out lots of supporters every turn. separating armies with a cannon fodder attack on both sides resulted in a comfortable situation for me: the new forces were too busy to really threaten the attackers for one village that i manged to keep for longer.

then the coup d'etat:

moving my ldr up to somehow spam units all over nekis place was a reasonable strategy while still being able to avoid being completely pulverized from neki in the south where i had next-to-nothing by now. nicely, neki provided me his leaders position and after the best assassin in the game had poisoned neki he was soon swarmed by freshly recruited trolls that lead to his early demise in turn 14. else he would have simply killed me :lol2:

Image
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Arcanclave neki vs rigor
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Cackfiend
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Cackfiend » December 2nd, 2010, 8:15 am

A ladder game that ended in a DRAW so I can't post it on the ladder page.... worth checking out for sure :)
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Doc Paterson
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Doc Paterson » December 3rd, 2010, 12:57 am

Rigor wrote:Coming back to great games:

Arcanclave Citadel isnt exactely the map everybody wishes for when facing a highly capable opponent because the numberous possibilities can easily make u go crazy.
True words. I'm glad though that we have a map that can supply that sort of mentally demanding match, whenever someone is in that sort of mood.

Anyways, I mainly just wanted to say- That match was really excellent! :)

Thanks for posting it.
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because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
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Just_end_turn
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Just_end_turn » January 15th, 2011, 7:04 pm

This needs to be updated with a funny new game.

So aniway, this was a Ladder game between me vs creepylich in Meteor Lake.

I was p1 and drakes and he was p2 with dwarves.

I can't really describe this game, it was a bit unusual, with changing keeps, changing sides, crazy Rng swings on both sides.
You'll probably spot many mistakes in the replays, but this was played quickly, arround 1h30 for 21 turns.

Thanks creepylich for the great game, and hope you guys will like it aswell.
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Rigor
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Rigor » January 17th, 2011, 4:23 pm

i stumbled upon a game between Zup and rebellofhell while they were laddering on hamlets. both of them used their leader during the long game, and village stealings were countered by constant harassment so that when the day was over orcs could finish them easily. obviously, rebell saw this as an invitation for his leader to always accompany his troops in the future. after an unfortunate accident with all of his 3 village protecting troops he suddenly faced the "somebody else lives in your house now phenomenon".

Image
Figure: reads: "occupied"

coming back from his hard raid, he was first surprised, then undecided and then finally killed the usurpants. Zup didnt make any effort to make it very hard for him to get back either. unfortunately, Zup knew how to play and occupied all 14 villages of the map before and blocked some castle tiles so that rebel couldnt spent all of his 200 gold. if u ever run into such a situation, dont do this!!!!!

PS: heres the link to the details

http://ladder.subversiva.org/gamedetail ... %3A34%3A17
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Wintermute » February 12th, 2011, 10:49 pm

Here was a game played on Hornshark to test out the issues raised here regarding cav and northies.

What turned out to be a short game started off well for my orcs. I stole a village for several turns and there was little action elsewhere. However, I got careless early on with an assassin on the right side that ended up unable to escape during the day. Rather than leave him to his probable fate I decided to advance the rest of my force too early in the hopes of making more backfield village gains and setting up good night press. This was IMO the game losing mistake for me - Rigor's daytime counterattack was brutal and left me unable to retaliate as effectively as I had assumed. With trapped units I continued to engage at dusk with dismal results, and then Rigor quickly destroyed my army.

Overall I think it was too short a game to really determine much useful. Rigor used cavalry to good effect, but I think that my major positioning blunder had more to do with the outcome than any other factor. More games will tell!
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Rigor
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Re: 1v1 Replays! (THE ARCHIVE)

Post by Rigor » February 12th, 2011, 11:27 pm

id have the nice after-game-chat in my savegame explaining some things that both of us thought if anybody is interested. im looking forward to playing the rematch on a more cavalry-favoring map like all of u let me know during the game and made it look like im gonna die for sure :twisted:

so check out round 2 as well!
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