Defend action

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
mbabuskov
Posts: 89
Joined: April 7th, 2004, 1:23 pm
Contact:

Defend action

Post by mbabuskov »

I have the idea that you could issue "defend" action to a unit that hasn't attacked. It ends its move at that moment and has +30% defense during opponent round. Something like "fortify" in civilization.

I can be useful, because often I want units to just "hold their ground" while some other units are doing something.

Guest

Re: Defend action

Post by Guest »

mbabuskov wrote:I have the idea that you could issue "defend" action to a unit that hasn't attacked. It ends its move at that moment and has +30% defense during opponent round. Something like "fortify" in civilization.

I can be useful, because often I want units to just "hold their ground" while some other units are doing something.
units gain health when they stay in the same place: it is called resting. there is no point in making staying still give more of a bonus than it already does.

mbabuskov
Posts: 89
Joined: April 7th, 2004, 1:23 pm
Contact:

Post by mbabuskov »

I didn't write that it needs to give them health, but increase their defense.

Ave
Posts: 221
Joined: February 28th, 2004, 4:42 pm
Location: Hungary

Post by Ave »

If it would involve don't fight back, then it would be a nice feature. Sometimes i want to hold a position, but don't want to fight back. At this moment people use weak damage units to get this effect.

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Post by Sangel »

Perhaps a unit would gain +10xLevel% defense for selecting "defend", but at the cost of not striking blows in return?
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Eponymous-Archon
Posts: 558
Joined: February 1st, 2004, 6:17 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Post by Eponymous-Archon »

Ave wrote:If it would involve don't fight back, then it would be a nice feature. Sometimes i want to hold a position, but don't want to fight back. At this moment people use weak damage units to get this effect.
There are several contexts in which this would be nice, but it would also involve a lot more user interaction and make the game more complicated. (KISS again)

Which is not to say that I'm not in favor of it. :-)
The Eponymous Archon

mbabuskov
Posts: 89
Joined: April 7th, 2004, 1:23 pm
Contact:

Post by mbabuskov »

Eponymous-Archon wrote: There are several contexts in which this would be nice, but it would also involve a lot more user interaction and make the game more complicated. (KISS again)
IMHO, This fits the KISS. When you have unit selected, just right-click, select "defend" for menu, and that's all.

Doing that:
- Sets unit's defend flag to true
- Sets unit's movement points for that move to 0

No more no less.

Eponymous-Archon
Posts: 558
Joined: February 1st, 2004, 6:17 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Post by Eponymous-Archon »

mbabuskov wrote:
Eponymous-Archon wrote: There are several contexts in which this would be nice, but it would also involve a lot more user interaction and make the game more complicated. (KISS again)
IMHO, This fits the KISS. When you have unit selected, just right-click, select "defend" for menu, and that's all.
Well, more choices = more complexity. So not KISS.

And, again, I didn't say I didn't like it. :-)
The Eponymous Archon

Darth Fool
Retired Developer
Posts: 2633
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 11:22 pm
Location: An Earl's Roadstead

Post by Darth Fool »

Would this same mechanism work to set a default weapon to defend with?.(the snare/thorns argument for the elvish shaman comes to mind)

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

mbabuskov wrote:I didn't write that it needs to give them health, but increase their defense.
right, but i was saying that right now it does give them health, and it works out strategically well. units that don't move get a slight bonus, but not a large one.

[rant]
you know what bugs me? when new players come in and try to get their favorite feature from another game into this game. this is wesnoth, not Civ, and it should not be like Civ. same with catapults, multi-hexed ranged weapons, etc etc. please read the wesnoth philosophy before posting these ideas!
[/rant]

sorry, i had to say that. :)
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

Kamahawk
Posts: 583
Joined: November 9th, 2003, 11:26 pm
Location: Foggy California

Post by Kamahawk »

turin wrote:[rant]
you know what bugs me? when new players come in and try to get their favorite feature from another game into this game. this is wesnoth, not Civ, and it should not be like Civ. same with catapults, multi-hexed ranged weapons, etc etc. please read the wesnoth philosophy before posting these ideas!
[/rant]

sorry, i had to say that. :)
Everyone new to this forum proposes something that never be incorperated into the game, this a fact of (forum) life. So, just nod politely and wach as Miyo, Dave, fmunoz or one of the oldtimer forum goers smashes the new idea to bits and give it the "KISS of death". After that the newbie will probely leave in a huff or sit down for a bit and come up with something usefull, this happened to me: my firt proposal of a balista was politely rejected, but my second idea is now an oficial Loyalist unit.
My contributions to the Wesnoth Project over time are inversly proportional to the number of registered forum users!
Piet Hein wrote:Knowing what thou knowest not is in a sence Omniscience

Dave
Founding Developer
Posts: 7071
Joined: August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Post by Dave »

- if we wanted to make a 'defend' bonus, I don't see any reason why you would have to issue a 'defend' command to gain it. Simply any unit that had not moved/attacker/whatever you have to do to get 'defend' would automatically get the bonus.
- something like this could perhaps be nice as a special ability for a certain type of unit. Perhaps the Pikeman and Halbardier -- when resting they also take half damage, or something. We can think about it.
turin wrote: you know what bugs me? when new players come in and try to get their favorite feature from another game into this game.
Don't worry about it too much. The main concern I have about it is that I don't like to feel like we're rejecting everyone's ideas. Hopefully the way we handle things doesn't turn people away unnecessarily.

Anyhow, I have started this thread which will hopefully alleviate the problem:

http://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpB ... php?t=1158

If anyone posts an idea that's in the thread already, we can just point them to it.
Kamahawk wrote: nod politely and wach as Miyo, Dave, fmunoz or one of the oldtimer forum goers smashes the new idea to bits and give it the "KISS of death"
I've actually pretty much given up on quoting the 'KISS' thing to people anymore. I figure everyone must be pretty tired of it by now, and probably think it's juvenile.

It also starts losing its meaning when all the sides in a debate start claiming why their solution is the 'KISS way to do it', and/or do the reductio ad absurdum thing and start up on how if we really want a KISS approach we should simply strip the game of all of its features altogether.

I do hope that some people read my signature though ;)

(Btw, I did chat to the starter of this thread on IRC today, and he was very understanding that there are an insane number of feature requests for a game like this, and that it's likely that few or none of his ideas would be implemented.)

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Post by Sangel »

Personally, I'd rather see the Pikeman/Halbardier get an ability which means they strike first in defense as well as attack. Though the idea of some units getting a defense bonus for staying still is nice.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

miyo
Posts: 2201
Joined: August 19th, 2003, 4:28 pm
Location: Finland

Post by miyo »

Sangel wrote:Personally, I'd rather see the Pikeman/Halbardier get an ability which means they strike first in defense as well as attack. Though the idea of some units getting a defense bonus for staying still is nice.
Sounds reasonable those unit getting 'first strike'

- Miyo

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Post by Sangel »

Yep. It would also give more significant pause to units which would suffer the most (ie, charging cavalry could be seriously injured before they even strike), while keeping the balance for other units (ie archers would still have a reasonable damage rate against them).
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Post Reply