Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

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lujo86
Posts: 41
Joined: January 31st, 2023, 9:50 am

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by lujo86 »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 3:59 pm
lujo86 wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 3:32 pm Does this bug mean that the sceptre doesn't spawn? Because I've uncovered the whole map and couldn't find it anywhere :( Version 1.16.8.

If yes, is there a workaround?

firebug.jpg
Save file to troubleshoot?
Sure, where do I find it? It's the steam version.
lujo86
Posts: 41
Joined: January 31st, 2023, 9:50 am

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by lujo86 »

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

1.16.2
Highest

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

1

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

10

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It was unusually clumsy and awkward, at least compared to some of the dialogue in the scenarios surrounding it, which is generally a bit better than the stuff earlier in the campaign. Can't be helped without a decent rewrite/edit job.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

The first run had some kind of bug which made the sceptre not spawn, I'll upload a savegame when I figure out where they are.

On the second run I just missed the Sceptre and had to backtrack when I ran out of tunnels to explore. It really ought to stand out more visually.

Otherwise, there's no real challenge to these dwarven tunnels levels, since you've got dwarves on favorable terrain and you probably have loads of high-level mages (and healers) to back them up. Beating dwarves usually involves denying them favorable ground, and everything is favorable ground here. I just made 2 dwarf balls backed up by shydes and sylphs and rolled them around the tunnels grinding XP. Only danger were the lava and mispositioning against skirmishers.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5 I guess, it's not unfun, but it's not very challenging.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No idea. The feel of the map is fine, but dwarves on mostly-all-dwarven-home-pitch + flying mages are just never going to face an actual challenge.

I would certainly make the scepter art stand out more.
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ElvishMystical0
Posts: 33
Joined: September 19th, 2018, 12:15 am

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by ElvishMystical0 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Versions 1.12 to 1.16 Easy and Medium. This feedback relates specifically to 1.16 Medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
This scenario averages out at a 6.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear - find the sceptre.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's getting better but it's still weak. Konrad still has no character and Delfador is getting weird as he seems to want to show off his psychic abilities. I don't get this 'it speaks to me' regarding the sceptre of fire. It's an inanimate object. Surely it would be better to say 'voices are telling me' or even 'my intuition is suggesting that it's' or even 'I believe it's in this direction'.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Often by this stage in the campaign I'm playing catch up. It seems like the campaign is designed to assume that you're making progress consistently throughout the campaign with better and better armies and levelled units. I often don't have that much gold so 300 gold helps and I don't have many level 3 units as I'm still trying to get more level 2 units.

The map is randomly spawned and many of the challenges come from having enemies in awkward terrain. However usually I can find a work round.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I give this a 6. I would give this more points if I were a better player and had more high level units but usually I'm more focussed on levelling up units and trying to keep all my level 2 units alive. Some are getting closer to level 3 and losing one due to RNG is usually frustrating. It's also a big cave scenario and I'm not a fan of cave scenarios. I see them as a chore which needs to be dealt with.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The storyline needs work. The basic storyline is fine, and I get the feeling that more editing and revision is needed in certain scenarios. A few years ago I considered making an independent film based on Wesnoth but it fell apart due to the practicalities to figuring out how to portray Goblin Riders in a movie. Maybe it would work better as a cartoon or animation.

However.... other than that no suggestions.
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lhybrideur
Posts: 357
Joined: July 9th, 2019, 1:46 pm

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by lhybrideur »

Totally unrelated but I see Goblin Riders as smaller version of the Warg riders
Orek
Posts: 27
Joined: June 24th, 2020, 1:02 am

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by Orek »

Content Feedback wrote: (1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
(1) Challenging (=Champion=Hardest) in 1.14.17 on permadeath
(2) 4 (16th most difficult = 8th easiest)
... [Difficult] 2, 16, 14, 4, 9, 6, 5b, 10, 13, 12, 23, 8, 7, 3, 15, 17, 19c, 22, 1, 20b, 11, 24, 18 [Easy]
(3) Clear
(4) Clear and interesting enough
(5) Randomly generated map made it difficult to plan things ahead of time.
(6) 2 (21st most fun = 3rd most boring)
... [Fun] 2, 1, 6, 9, 5b, 4, 16, 15, 23, 3, 12, 14, 10, 24, 13, 8, 7, 19c, 20b, 11, 17, 22, 18 [Boring]
(7) None
(8) 500, 523, 541 for Run 1~3
(9) For Run 1~3,
... Lvl 4: 2, 1, 3
... Lvl 3: 17, 17, 12
... Lvl 2: 16, 20, 13

YouTube Link: Run 1 Run 2 Run 3
Walkthrough: HttT walkthrough (hardest, permadeath, v1.14.17) + General campaign guides (Replays for all scenarios can be downloaded from here.)
Orek
Posts: 27
Joined: June 24th, 2020, 1:02 am

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by Orek »

When Konrad spawns at the very bottom of the map (y-coordinate = 68), 1 or 3 castle hexes are outside the map boundary. As a result, only 5 or 3 units can be recruited/recalled per turn. Konrad's x-coordinate determines the number of available castle hexes (5 if odd, 3 if even). Although this situation happens very rarely, this kind of map generation is probably not intended, so I have made a hotfix for this issue. The following code is inserted for the prestart event below the line " {CLEAR_VARIABLE adjacent_to_starting_loc}" in the default scenario file. For the time being, this hotfix should work. However, because I am new to WML, or any programming language for that matter, I am sure that more experienced people can come up with much better codes to fix this problem.

Code: Select all

        [store_locations]
            [and]
                [filter]
                    id=Konrad
                [/filter]

                radius=0

                x=1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47

                [not]
                    y=1-67
                [/not]
            [/and]

            variable=starting_loc_odd
        [/store_locations]

        [foreach]
            array=starting_loc_odd
            [do]
                [terrain]
                    x,y=$this_item.x,"$($this_item.y - 2)"
                    terrain=Cud
                [/terrain]
            [/do]
        [/foreach]

        {CLEAR_VARIABLE starting_loc_odd}

        [store_locations]
            [and]
                [filter]
                    id=Konrad
                [/filter]

                radius=0

                x=2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48

                [not]
                    y=1-67
                [/not]
            [/and]

            variable=starting_loc_even
        [/store_locations]

        [foreach]
            array=starting_loc_even
            [do]
                [terrain]
                    x,y=$this_item.x,"$($this_item.y - 2)"
                    terrain=Cud
                [/terrain]
                [terrain]
                    x,y="$($this_item.x - 1)","$($this_item.y - 1)"
                    terrain=Cud
                [/terrain]
                [terrain]
                    x,y="$($this_item.x + 1)","$($this_item.y - 1)"
                    terrain=Cud
                [/terrain]
            [/do]
        [/foreach]

        {CLEAR_VARIABLE starting_loc_even}
Image

Current default scenario file, hotfix scenario file, and turn 1 game files for all 4 pictures above are attached below.
All of these are tested in version 1.16.10, but nothing should be different for all of the recent stable and development versions as well.
Attachments
17_Scepter_of_Fire_v1_16_10_Default.cfg
(23.34 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
17_Scepter_of_Fire_v1_16_10_Hotfix_01.cfg
(24.99 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Default-Odd-v11610-HttT-The Sceptre of Fire Turn 1.gz
(89.58 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Default-Even-v11610-HttT-The Sceptre of Fire Turn 1.gz
(89.5 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
Hotfix-Odd-v11610-HttT-The Sceptre of Fire Turn 1.gz
(89.79 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
Hotfix-Even-v11610-HttT-The Sceptre of Fire Turn 1.gz
(89.72 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
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Atreides
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm
Location: On the 2nd story of the centre village of Merwuerdigliebe turning the lights on and off

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by Atreides »

Content Feedback wrote: December 7th, 2005, 4:08 pm (1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
1) easy 1.12 no reloading
2) 10
3) Clear enough without ruining the mystery
4) It was quite good
5) Not rage quitting when the DAMN LAVA ATE MY UNITS!
6) 1
7) Like, you know dude... not randomly and without recourse annihilate valuable units... At the EASY level we should be immune to this sort of culling
8) 500ish
9) About 3 3's and maybe 10 2's

So now I wonder, looking at these questions... was this scen meant to decimate (in the truly literal Roman Legionnaire sense) people's "swollen" recall lists? I played well enough to not lose 1 unit in combat which doesn't often happen for us easy level players.
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Dyrcona
Posts: 15
Joined: December 26th, 2021, 12:59 pm

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by Dyrcona »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
The attached replay is from version 1.16.10 on Challenging (Hard) difficulty.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I am playing through the mainline campaigns again because I lost my saves recently when I switched distributions on my laptop. (No, I didn't have backups of my game saves. I am backing them up, now.) I have played through HTT multiple times on both Normal and Hard because I like doing the different routes through the campaigns, so after completing it, I'll go back to the scenario where a choice is made and play through the rest of the campaign making a different choice. (Is that weird?) Anyway, I'm just playing through it once on Hard this time to complete it.

So, all of that preface is to say that I found Sceptre of Fire to be a 2 on difficulty this time through because I have played it so many times and because the RNG was totally biased in my favor this time. Have a look at the Inflicted and Damage taken statistics at the end. I don't think I've ever seen it so skewed, except when I've been save scumming, which I did not do this time.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and story line of the scenario?
The dialog is interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I didn't have any major challenges, except that I lost a Dwarvish Steelclad who was tanking for Li'sar and another Dwarvish Fighter that I wanted to level up. The Dwarvish Fighter did level up, so I traded the one for the other.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It's hard to say. This time, I had a blast because the RNG was so messed up. I'd say normally it is about an 8, but this time it was a 10.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The only reason that I am posting this is to suggest a modification to the random dungeon creation. As you can see from the replay and the attached screenshots, I shared a starting base with Side 2, a Goblin Rouser. The enemy leader was touching two of my heroes, Delfador and Li'sar. The latter got an easy first kill, and I had one less enemy to face. I think the dungeon creation could be modified to ensure that there is some minimum distance between Side 1 and Side 2. Failing that, the closer of Side 2 or Side 3 could be eliminated instead of choosing one at random.

Screenshot of the starting position:
Starting position
Starting position
Attachments
HttT-The Sceptre of Fire replay 20231125-122749.gz
HTT The Sceptre of Fire Replay
(62.03 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
It varies a lot depending on the map-generation; probably around 6 on average.
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This is where, in my impression, the storyline around the princess starts to break down a bit. First of all, why does she have this spare 300 gold sitting around? It's obviously important for the gameplay progression, but the explanation needs help. If she had all this gold then she should have spent it in the previous scenario, when all of her troops were dead and she was sitting there alone with 10 HP. If she didn't spend it, maybe that means she had no troops left to recruit/recall. But then that raises another issue – how is she still so cocky and sneering when she's all alone in the caverns, having wasted her entire army, and totally dependent on our honor and goodwill? That is an attitude of an immature brat, not a seasoned, world-weary commander as she is made out to be in the previous scenarios. The character just doesn't hold together here. When the earth trembles she grabs onto Delfador, "What is that? What will happen to us?!" She starts appearing like a fragile, spoiled child here, rather than a capable leader. This only gets worse at the end of the scenario, where she says "I think I know what I'm doing, thank you" and so forth. Delfdor responds appropriately, calling her a "child," but it seems really incongruous in relation to how she is presented earlier, and to everything that comes later in the campaign. Makes me wonder why they are tolerating her at all rather than just dropping her in a lava pit, or carrying her back to Wesnoth in shackles. Based on the way she acts here, it's hard to believe that any of them could come to like or respect her. It would be a lot better if he showed some maturity and humility in response to her situation.

I like to give the scepter to the princess, both because it suits the gameplay and for the story; but it's hard to take that route when she also starts suddenly coming across as a totally inept and immature brat. She seems like a total flake here who is utterly incapable of leading a kingdom.

My suggestion would be that she is an honorable commander who has become cynical and hardened after what she has seen under the queen, but now gradually starts to see in Konrad's band a potential alternative and way out of her situation. She is in a humiliated position but they treat her honorably, so she should start to feel like, maybe this is the opportunity she's been looking for to switch over to a just cause. She should think, "This Konrad person seems truly and unexpectedly honorable, and is an effective commander; his rebellion has a real chance of succeeding; maybe it's time that I can make my move against the queen's evil by joining his cause." Wouldn't that be better than just whaaa, whaaa, I'm a bratty princess?
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The biggest challenge here is the time-factor and the need to explore the caverns to locate the objective. It's easy to get caught up in trying to kill the enemy leaders only to realize that you've run out of time to reach the scepter. Depending on the map layout there is also a risk of getting bottlenecked in narrow corridors and running the clock out. The spreading lava also poses a major risk, at least until you figure out how the mechanics around that work.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 – This is a really cool map, but it has some bugs and drawbacks that can be frustrating (as per below).
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
While the randomized map concept is extremely cool, it currently seems to have some glitches. I ran into the same problem mentioned by a previous poster (glitch #1) where one of the enemies started just a couple of hexes away from our keep, which meant we could walk over there and kill him before he even had a chance to recruit. After reloading a few times, I also encountered the issue (glitch #2) where our starting keep is embedded in the wall of the cave, so that only a couple of castle tiles were available to recruit into. This obviously slows things down and makes it much harder!

Another thing I noticed is that (glitch #3) the number of villages around the starting location can vary drastically, from just one or two to up around 12 or more. This again makes an insane difference in the difficulty – both for this scenario and in how much gold you have moving forward.

I'm not a programmer but perhaps it would be possible to have some parameter checks, so that the map is just redrawn if it doesn't meet certain conditions? I wouldn't want to remove the randomization entirely, because that is a really awesome feature. But it could be like, if the number of villages withing 10 tiles of Konrad is <4 or >8 then redraw. If an enemy leader is withing 12 tiles of Konrad then redraw. Etc.

Another thing here is that it's easy to miss the lava killing troops. I knew about this from previous playthroughs, and it's kind of hinted at in the opening dialogue – but I do remember being confused the first time I played the map. Like suddenly realizing "where did my leveled guardsman go?" and having to review back to figure out what actually happened to him. Maybe something like centering on a unit and having it flash when it is killed by lava to alert the player to what is going on.

As noted above, I'd recommend completely revising the princess's dialogue here, so that she doesn't suddently start coming across as a complete dipshit.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

The maps and storyline here are well-made and polished, though not as completely epic as some of the other campaigns. I like that it is lengthy, giving you time to develop your army, and gradually introduces many different terrains and unit types. This seems like a great beginner campaign since it's fairly easy and the early scenarios are framed as a kind of mentoring environment for the young hero. (However, it's a bit strange that some of the basic dialogue tips, like "hey, loyal units don't require upkeep!" are just now arriving, after I've already played through several previous campaigns without that advice.) There are some glitches that can come up in the Scepter of Fire scenario, and some of the princess-related dialogue around scenarios 17–21 felt a bit confusing and unbelievable (more specific comments in the relevant threads). This campaign is very close to full marks, but due to those few lingering issues and the lack of any real epic blow-you-away maps I'm going to rate it 4 out of 5.
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