Count Units Cost - Mod

[ChaosRider]

I would like to introduce you to my newest mod called "Count Units Cost".

This mod counts units cost (right click on unit and choose option "Count units cost" to use it) that depends of unit:

- Max hitpoints
- Max movement points
- Resistances (blade, pierce, impact, fire, cold, arcane)
- Terrains Defense (flat, forest, hills, mountains, sand, frozen, cave, shallow water, swamp water, castle, fungus, unwalkable, deep water, reef, village)
- Movements Cost (flat, forest, hills, mountains, sand, frozen, cave, shallow water, swamp water, castle, fungus, unwalkable, deep water, reef, village)
- Weapons damage and strikes number
- Weapons specials
- Abilities
- Unit lvl (for 0 lvls multiply by 0.75, for 1 lvl multiply by 1, for higher lvls its multiply by number increased by 0.25 more than higher lvl difference)

It works for weapon specials and abilities from Default era, SX RPG, War Of The Gods.

There is also information about maximum unit cost per level.

Count Units Cost mod is able to catch traits on unit that you want count unit cost and variables inside this addon code are modified so traits from default era and WOTG dont change unit total cost.

Below is the list of units from default era and their cost counted by my mod:

Drakes

Drake Fighter 16.3422
Drake Clasher 21.5622
Drake Burner 18.4811
Drake Glider 19.3789
Saurian Augur 16.3267
Saurian Skirmisher 15.4433

Undeads

Ghul 16.7522
Dark Adept 22.0656
Walking Corpse 4.8083
Vampire Bat 11.7233
Skeleton 16.3422
Skeleton Archer 15.9922
Ghost 20.7889
Skeleton Rider 18.0556

Rebels (Elves)

Merman Hunter 15.9278
Elvish Fighter 13.9344
Elvish Archer 15.4744
Mage 16.4989
Wose 21.5533
Elvish Shaman 16.6244
Elvish Scout 18.09

Loyalists (Humans)

Heavy Infantryman 16.8056
Mage 16.4989
Bowman 14.7822
Spearman 16.5322
Horseman 23.2656
Merman Fighter 16.1444
Fencer 15.8356
Cavalryman 17.9156

Knalgans (Dwarves and others)

Gryphon Rider 16.6978
Footpad 13.3633
Thief 15.9467
Thug 13.6989
Poacher 14.3756
Dwarvish Fighter 18.41
Dwarvish Guardsman 19.43
Dwarvish Thunderer 15.5767
Dwarvish Ulfserker 24.9133
Dwarvish Scout 15.4267

Northerners (Orcs)

Goblin Spearman 6.1575
Orcich Grunt 14.4767
Orcish Archer 15.1433
Orcich Assassin 17.7911
Troll Whelp 17.45
Wolf Rider 15.81
Young Ogre 15.4711
Naga Fighter 14.3233

If you guys don't know how many cost your unit should be use my mod.

[the_kaygan]

Does it take into account the movement pattern? Or just amount of movement points?

[ChaosRider]

Does it take into account the movement pattern? Or just amount of movement points?

What do you mean by saying movement pattern? Is it max movement points of unit (yes, it takes it in to unit cost counting) or unit terrain movement cost (no, it doesnt use it, maybe in next version it will count it too).

[the_kaygan]

So your calculator isnt correct

[ChaosRider]

So your calculator isnt correct

Could you tell why?

In newest version total unit cost will depends of the movements cost too.
Also I have decreased cost of max hitpoints but increased cost per max movement points.
I added to code changing values of variables that are added to total unit cost depending on the traits from default era.

[ChaosRider]

Count Units Cost v0.0.3 is out!
Now unit total cost depends also on the unit movements cost.
Also traits from default era won't affect unit total cost.
I changed a bit some other variables in the code so units cost are also different.

Drakes

Drake Fighter 17.5533
Drake Clasher 20.4225
Drake Burner 18.0533
Drake Glider 21.4178
Saurian Augur 18.6156
Saurian Skirmisher 16.208

Undeads

Ghul 17.73
Dark Adept 21.8843
Walking Corpse 4.6
Vampire Bat 14.5525
Skeleton 17.3422
Skeleton Archer 17.0756
Ghost 25.0167
Skeleton Rider 18.4667

Rebels (Elves)

Merman Hunter 14.8833
Elvish Fighter 13.9499
Elvish Archer 14.6291
Mage 15.7767
Wose 21.2923
Elvish Shaman 16.1198
Elvish Scout 19.9575

Loyalists (Humans)

Heavy Infantryman 14.571
Mage 15.7767
Bowman 13.9732
Spearman 15.5299
Horseman 23.6977
Merman Fighter 14.8833
Fencer 14.9958
Cavalryman 18.6322

Knalgans (Dwarves and others)

Gryphon Rider 19.1004
Footpad 14.2414
Thief 14.8186
Thug 12.7544
Poacher 13.5533
Dwarvish Fighter 17.8878
Dwarvish Guardsman 19.5633
Dwarvish Thunderer 16.0188
Dwarvish Ulfserker 25.4189
Dwarvish Scout 16.41

Northerners (Orcs)

Goblin Spearman 7.32
Orcich Grunt 13.8044
Orcish Archer 15.0442
Orcich Assassin 17.7244
Troll Whelp 16.8734
Wolf Rider 16.536
Young Ogre 16.0001
Naga Fighter 15.3067

[the_kaygan]

Glider for 21g. Think you doing something wrong

[Mabuse]

cool thing

since i also prepare new map, with essentially 4 new factions (well not really comeplete factions ... but units ), calculating units cost is always a good thing and interesting.

now im aware that it might be not perfect, but i think it can give valuable clues

[Mabuse]

Glider for 21g. Think you doing something wrong

i think movement has this impact, maybe could tone down at higher values a bit

So your calculator isnt correct

i think no calculaor will ever be "correct", but as a tool for a raw estimate it might be useable or interesting to try

but pointing out that movement cost have to be included in the calculation was helpful.

[Mabuse]

So your calculator isnt correct

Could you tell why?

btw, i just skimmed through

also i dont know if a "level-multiplicator" makes sense, because if we have identical units the lvl 2 unit would be more expensive than level 1 unit
this is kinda back-engineering

if anything than exagarated lvl1 stats should be more expensive than having it locked behind lvl2 or higher

so theres a bit to think about


i think there were other approaches in the past (from other faction developers) trying to make something like a cost calculation based on unit stats, maybe also try to look what they have done, it may give some inspiration

[ChaosRider]

So your calculator isnt correct

Could you tell why?

btw, i just skimmed through

also i dont know if a "level-multiplicator" makes sense, because if we have identical units the lvl 2 unit would be more expensive than level 1 unit
this is kinda back-engineering

if anything than exagarated lvl1 stats should be more expensive than having it locked behind lvl2 or higher

so theres a bit to think about


i think there were other approaches in the past (from other faction developers) trying to make something like a cost calculation based on unit stats, maybe also try to look what they have done, it may give some inspiration

For your scenarios Mabuse I propose you to download Random Colosseum and check shop options. You can create there weapon and set it stats and cost of the weapon is calculated as well. There are also other interested things which you could use too. Below are screenshots of it:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/Y9djsrM

[Mabuse]

For your scenarios Mabuse I propose you to download Random Colosseum and check shop options. You can create there weapon and set it stats and cost of the weapon is calculated as well. There are also other interested things which you could use too. Below are screenshots of it:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/Y9djsrM

will take a look at it,

i found another formular in ageless era thread. will corporate this formula into your frame and see what it turns out
(for testing purposes only taking default and SXRPG special/abilities into account)

[IPS]

Few things you should consider when pricing units, which aren't considered right now:

Damage types matters: Some damage types are more costy than others, even if value is the same. Will list from most expensive to cheapest in order.
Arcane: With the 1.18 arcane rework this damage type is stupidly good in default era. Hard counter things and almost all time does neutral dmg.
Fire: can hard counter things (wose, skeletons) and more often deals neutral dmg to more things than other damage types.
Blade: in default era considered the most consistent damage type for melee attackers.
Cold: Slightly worse than blade because more units are resistant to it and less weak to it with exception of drake faction.
Impact: Almost in pair with cold, but impact usually does good (skeletons, heavy infantry, swift foot) or bad (calvaryman, drakes), but is often required to counter some matchups.
Pierce: considered the worst damage type because more often units are resistant to this

By my own observations, damage type cost rate should be something like this:
Arcane damage : x1.15 or x1.2 price modifier
Fire: x1.10 or x1.15 price modifier
Blade: x1 or x1.05 price modifier
Cold: x1 price modifier, no increase or decrease
Impact: x1 or x0.95 price modifier, hard to debate because it sometimes does really good, but at least in default universe
Pierce: x0.95 price modifier, even if it's dwarf killer dmg type because being "cheap"


With my idea in mind a fire attacker a lv1 having an attack of 6-4 fire should cost slightly more than a pierce attacker 7x4 if both no specials. Both deal same damage to dwarves almsot as often but sometimes fire will do clearly better than pierce attack.


Some other things to think about:

- Traits matters in pricing: for living units if the pool of traits is 4 and each unit can get 2, this means that each unit has 50% chance to get any of this traits. This means.... YES and its impact in price is mathematically possible to be found
a) living units gain 0.5 melee damage (Like spearman should be rated as 7.5 with 3 strikes) because 50% chance of 1 more dmg
b) living units should be considered like they're moving 0.5 more movement points, because 50% chance of 1 more movement.
c) Resilient is +4 HP and +1 HP per level, meaning unit in lv1 should be considered like having 2.5 more health than usual.
d) Intelligent is hard to rate, because it means the unit needs fewer XP to lv2, hardest trait to consider when pricing because it also depends in how good the advancement is.


Units in default with a pool of other traits:
Elves: Adds dexterous in possible trait pool.... as 5 different traits can be rolled, meaning 40% chance to get any in a specific elf. This changes melee damage modifier to +0.4 per strike, quick bonus to 0.4 (40% chance off getting it) , adds +0.4 ranged damage bonus to elfs.

Troll: can't get intelligent but can get fearless. Fearless is no damage handicap in wrong time of day, which in normal circumstance is 2/6 of the turns adding 25% more base damage in this bad time of day. This means it's 25% more damage in 1/3 of the game, which would raise the total damage to +8.33% in average at helping this unit being 25% more consistent 1/3 o the game.

Heavy Infantry: Can roll 5 traits too, because those can roll fearless, so damage per hit increases to +0.4 but can get 8.33% average damage increase from fearless but this worses quick chances with harms heavy infantry a lot.

Walking Corpse: All ones you hire are fearless, so they're dealing +8.33% fearless thing all time

Goblin: Goblin has 1/3 chance of getting a bad trait (Weak, Slow, Dumb) , this mean goblin losses -0.33 on melee strikes, and is rated as 4.66 movement unit, not sure how you should

Dwarf: They also gain another trait to their pool which is healthy, lowering chances of the other traits to 40% but also counting as health bonus itself too.

Undead bonus: they are inmune to poison and plague in the other hand, that should add some bonus too, but living traits bonus seems to usually be stronger in more cases.

Liminal Alligment: counts as fearless so +8.33% free damage when getting it.


Regards Lv0:
Yes, they mathematically should be this bad, they cost no upkeep meaning you can get some more of them and have more army bulk and damage. Walking corpse is very rigged because it can copy itself after a kill so I think Walking Corpse needs x2 cost because plague bonus.

Plague: Hard to calculate ,but doable, unit should gets +plague-unit price depending in what the kills gives to player, if walking corpse gives a 6g walking corpse (example) plague should increase units price by +6g considering the fact you successfully get one copy from kill that can also plague more things, which if working well you paid well money for. If following this same example, a 13g souless if getting walking corpse after a kill it should raise it's price to (13g +6g) , but if it was plaguing more lv1 souless its price would go up to (13g +13g -itself's price, because plaguing something better). But if the plague can also plague.... then the plague multiplier should be bit higher itself because then you can get a full army from just one recruit.... so plaguing an unit that also plagues should add greater plague multiplier too? meaning the unit that can plague should be increased in unit's pricing by x1.5 or x2 the unit it can plague (6g walking corpse + (1.5)6g walking corpse = 14.5g) ehhh don't ask me, but one lv0 walking corpse can build an entire army if you want to = fodder to protect better units from even lv5+ enemies....

Whatever you consider in plague, true thing is it has to cost more.


Traits can be considered in pricing, it's how that should work.

[ChaosRider]

Few things you should consider when pricing units, which aren't considered right now:

Damage types matters: Some damage types are more costy than others, even if value is the same. Will list from most expensive to cheapest in order.
Arcane: With the 1.18 arcane rework this damage type is stupidly good in default era. Hard counter things and almost all time does neutral dmg.
Fire: can hard counter things (wose, skeletons) and more often deals neutral dmg to more things than other damage types.
Blade: in default era considered the most consistent damage type for melee attackers.
Cold: Slightly worse than blade because more units are resistant to it and less weak to it with exception of drake faction.
Impact: Almost in pair with cold, but impact usually does good (skeletons, heavy infantry, swift foot) or bad (calvaryman, drakes), but is often required to counter some matchups.
Pierce: considered the worst damage type because more often units are resistant to this

By my own observations, damage type cost rate should be something like this:
Arcane damage : x1.15 or x1.2 price modifier
Fire: x1.10 or x1.15 price modifier
Blade: x1 or x1.05 price modifier
Cold: x1 price modifier, no increase or decrease
Impact: x1 or x0.95 price modifier, hard to debate because it sometimes does really good, but at least in default universe
Pierce: x0.95 price modifier, even if it's dwarf killer dmg type because being "cheap"


With my idea in mind a fire attacker a lv1 having an attack of 6-4 fire should cost slightly more than a pierce attacker 7x4 if both no specials. Both deal same damage to dwarves almsot as often but sometimes fire will do clearly better than pierce attack.


Some other things to think about:

- Traits matters in pricing: for living units if the pool of traits is 4 and each unit can get 2, this means that each unit has 50% chance to get any of this traits. This means.... YES and its impact in price is mathematically possible to be found
a) living units gain 0.5 melee damage (Like spearman should be rated as 7.5 with 3 strikes) because 50% chance of 1 more dmg
b) living units should be considered like they're moving 0.5 more movement points, because 50% chance of 1 more movement.
c) Resilient is +4 HP and +1 HP per level, meaning unit in lv1 should be considered like having 2.5 more health than usual.
d) Intelligent is hard to rate, because it means the unit needs fewer XP to lv2, hardest trait to consider when pricing because it also depends in how good the advancement is.


Units in default with a pool of other traits:
Elves: Adds dexterous in possible trait pool.... as 5 different traits can be rolled, meaning 40% chance to get any in a specific elf. This changes melee damage modifier to +0.4 per strike, quick bonus to 0.4 (40% chance off getting it) , adds +0.4 ranged damage bonus to elfs.

Troll: can't get intelligent but can get fearless. Fearless is no damage handicap in wrong time of day, which in normal circumstance is 2/6 of the turns adding 25% more base damage in this bad time of day. This means it's 25% more damage in 1/3 of the game, which would raise the total damage to +8.33% in average at helping this unit being 25% more consistent 1/3 o the game.

Heavy Infantry: Can roll 5 traits too, because those can roll fearless, so damage per hit increases to +0.4 but can get 8.33% average damage increase from fearless but this worses quick chances with harms heavy infantry a lot.

Walking Corpse: All ones you hire are fearless, so they're dealing +8.33% fearless thing all time

Goblin: Goblin has 1/3 chance of getting a bad trait (Weak, Slow, Dumb) , this mean goblin losses -0.33 on melee strikes, and is rated as 4.66 movement unit, not sure how you should

Dwarf: They also gain another trait to their pool which is healthy, lowering chances of the other traits to 40% but also counting as health bonus itself too.

Undead bonus: they are inmune to poison and plague in the other hand, that should add some bonus too, but living traits bonus seems to usually be stronger in more cases.

Liminal Alligment: counts as fearless so +8.33% free damage when getting it.


Regards Lv0:
Yes, they mathematically should be this bad, they cost no upkeep meaning you can get some more of them and have more army bulk and damage. Walking corpse is very rigged because it can copy itself after a kill so I think Walking Corpse needs x2 cost because plague bonus.

Plague: Hard to calculate ,but doable, unit should gets +plague-unit price depending in what the kills gives to player, if walking corpse gives a 6g walking corpse (example) plague should increase units price by +6g considering the fact you successfully get one copy from kill that can also plague more things, which if working well you paid well money for. If following this same example, a 13g souless if getting walking corpse after a kill it should raise it's price to (13g +6g) , but if it was plaguing more lv1 souless its price would go up to (13g +13g -itself's price, because plaguing something better). But if the plague can also plague.... then the plague multiplier should be bit higher itself because then you can get a full army from just one recruit.... so plaguing an unit that also plagues should add greater plague multiplier too? meaning the unit that can plague should be increased in unit's pricing by x1.5 or x2 the unit it can plague (6g walking corpse + (1.5)6g walking corpse = 14.5g) ehhh don't ask me, but one lv0 walking corpse can build an entire army if you want to = fodder to protect better units from even lv5+ enemies....

Whatever you consider in plague, true thing is it has to cost more.


Traits can be considered in pricing, it's how that should work.

At the beginning I would like to say that I didnt replay for your post earlier cause I was doing manual units cost changes (for nearly 3800 units, from 0 to 2 lvl) and it took me some time.

I dont agree with this that some types of the damage should cost more. In WOTG there is a lot units with different weapon type and resistances for it. So I wont change it.

Second is that my addon will catch trait on unit that I use count unit cost menu option and later it will change some variables values depending on which trait unit has. It works on traits from default era and WOTG. Traits dont change unit total cost. I thought about it too.

About plagues weapon specials I decided that each plague weapon special which spawns 0 lvl will increase unit cost by 0.5, and for 1 lvls spawned by plague unit total cost will be increased by 1 and for each higher lvl spawned by plague 0.5 cost more.

You are free to copy my addon Count Units Cost and modify as you want. You IPS as person which makes a changes for Ageless could add to the code lines with cost for weapon specials and abilities from Ageless era.

[ChaosRider]

So your calculator isnt correct

Could you tell why?

btw, i just skimmed through

also i dont know if a "level-multiplicator" makes sense, because if we have identical units the lvl 2 unit would be more expensive than level 1 unit
this is kinda back-engineering

if anything than exagarated lvl1 stats should be more expensive than having it locked behind lvl2 or higher

so theres a bit to think about


i think there were other approaches in the past (from other faction developers) trying to make something like a cost calculation based on unit stats, maybe also try to look what they have done, it may give some inspiration

Mabuse how its going your making new map with new 4 factions? Is these factions will have new unique units images? Im curious cause maybe I could add them to WOTG.

About "level-multiplicator" in calculator it makes sense cause without it even with bigger stats as max hit points, weapons damage/strikes and other things unit total cost would be to low. Thanks to multiply it higher with each next unit level to total cost is higher too. Remember that in unit cost counting it isnt taken unit xp that is require to lvl up it. So we can say that multiply unit total cost with each next lvl its cause you need to get that xp in battle so thats a hidden reason for increasing total cost for higher lvls.

Even with this multiply total cost with next unit lvl some 2 lvl units cost less than 1 lvl units. Some 3 lvls can cost less than 2 lvl but this require to lower lvl unit had weapon specials and abilities when the other unit with higher lvl doesnt have it. Such a examples are in WOTG.

Once again Im curious on your progres in making your new map cause you didnt post anything in last days on wesnoth forum. Feel free to send in to this topic examples of your work or a link to the topic where you will post it .