Unit Balance and features
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Unit Balance and features
I just played the campaign "A vision blinded". It is a fairly decent campaign. I quit, however, in the scenario where
there were 5 enemies or so, and they had knights level 2 and those impalers too. (That is, five enemies recruiting units). I understand that this is a "hold the line" scenario where I just need to beat the number of rounds played, but I don't want to twiddle thumbs in the middle of the map. I want to go out of the home base and FIGHT.
Anyway - I wanted to give a bit feedback, about the units specifically. I played another campaign before with dwarf berserker (ulzerker or so).
1) The berserk feature is the single attribute/trait I really dislike from A to Z, to ... say 90% or so. Basically it means one unit will die: either your own, or the dwarf. While that gives strategic flexibility, I dislike that this is a coin flip often. I can work around it to some extent, e. g. place units that are fodder units (aka can die) or injure the berzerker, slow him down and what not - but at the end of the day it remains a coin flip. I absolutely hate that a strategy game becomes just a coin flip really. I think this was discussed in elsewhere before, so I am not the only one with that opinion; my personal favourite option would be to either remove this option altogether, or turn it into lesser berserk, e. g. reduce strength and number of attacks away from infinite to some number that still causes a lot of damage but may end up not killing either unit. This could as compensation incur fatigue or so, perhaps like dazzle or daze or whatever the name was or some other one-turn limited effect; perhaps not on the ulfzerker itself but on the target unit, unless it has the endurance trait or something. Anyway, this was not the main gripe I had. (If neither is acceptable, perhaps there could be some counter-feature, like riposte or counter-fencing or so that may deal an extra strike, e. g. like in the old DnD rules you could do a pass-by attack if someone moved by you. For instance a fencer could perhaps have this feature, or perhaps the elven champion or so.)
2) So, knights and lancers in particular are pretty powerful. They just killed my level 4 unit sorceress, which took 32 damage twice. On top of that they are very fast. So this also gives a strategic element, but I can not help but feel that most regular units are just toast compared to them. I am not sure what to do about this as in particular lancers rely on high damage output. Perhaps retain how they are in open terrain but reduce them a bit in hills and woods. Not sure what with, -25% damage output or -20% or something like that. I could have played the scenario differently, making use more of terrain, but some terrain design just favours lancers in particular, e. g. the open type. I would perhaps consider increasing their hitpoints but reducing their damage output. That would still make them useful but not those insta-nukers. When a single lancer can kill my main hero with a bit of luck in one attack, then this is very annoying. I stopped the campaign because of that scenario - granted, this may be the design of the scenario but even then I still think lancers are very overpowered. Knights may be somewhat overpowered, but I don't mind them as much since they don't so easily one-shot my main heroes. Another lancer just rushed in and killed an avenger ranger also with two shots. That guy was in the forest, so 70% defence. Yes, luck plays a role, I get it, but ... some fatso guy on a big pony riding into the forest and the ranger is standing still? The pony can dodge easily from tree to tree and hovers in the air or something? I get that wesnoth does not really want to be complex and complicated, but it is still a bit silly how the expert tree guy is stabbed in one round by a knight guy. (Or, I think it was a lancer actually). The damage needs to be reviewed in my opinion; it is also fine to review the elven ranger of course; it is probably also somewhat overpowered.
3) Elven marksman sniper. I don't complain about the markmanship and high damage output, but boy is that a squishy unit. The enemy lancer just nuked that one down. This was in open terrain so I don't mind as much, but really why would I want to pick a sniper? Any elven ranger is much better. Yes, the damage output is less, but he has more hp and does better in melee, so I think the long term cost actually favours them. This is only a small complaint though, both 1) and especially 2) I consider more problematic.
I understand that balance may cause other balance-related changes, so this should be thought through, but right now the lancer is really the most annoying, followed by ulfzerker. I don't quite have anywhere as much a gripe with most of the other units, they seem to be fairly well designed balance wise, considering all things, but some things are simply broken IMO - or at the least not ideally setup.
Perhaps we can think of more features and traits that are "light" and that may help against some of those overpowered units in 1:1 scenarios. That way we could more strategically plan things too. Right now we seem hugely limited in what we can do - which I again understand is a feature of wesnoth (the old "keep it simple"), but I really would like to see some consideration to make the game a bit more flexible. Perhaps as an option to pick or so.
there were 5 enemies or so, and they had knights level 2 and those impalers too. (That is, five enemies recruiting units). I understand that this is a "hold the line" scenario where I just need to beat the number of rounds played, but I don't want to twiddle thumbs in the middle of the map. I want to go out of the home base and FIGHT.
Anyway - I wanted to give a bit feedback, about the units specifically. I played another campaign before with dwarf berserker (ulzerker or so).
1) The berserk feature is the single attribute/trait I really dislike from A to Z, to ... say 90% or so. Basically it means one unit will die: either your own, or the dwarf. While that gives strategic flexibility, I dislike that this is a coin flip often. I can work around it to some extent, e. g. place units that are fodder units (aka can die) or injure the berzerker, slow him down and what not - but at the end of the day it remains a coin flip. I absolutely hate that a strategy game becomes just a coin flip really. I think this was discussed in elsewhere before, so I am not the only one with that opinion; my personal favourite option would be to either remove this option altogether, or turn it into lesser berserk, e. g. reduce strength and number of attacks away from infinite to some number that still causes a lot of damage but may end up not killing either unit. This could as compensation incur fatigue or so, perhaps like dazzle or daze or whatever the name was or some other one-turn limited effect; perhaps not on the ulfzerker itself but on the target unit, unless it has the endurance trait or something. Anyway, this was not the main gripe I had. (If neither is acceptable, perhaps there could be some counter-feature, like riposte or counter-fencing or so that may deal an extra strike, e. g. like in the old DnD rules you could do a pass-by attack if someone moved by you. For instance a fencer could perhaps have this feature, or perhaps the elven champion or so.)
2) So, knights and lancers in particular are pretty powerful. They just killed my level 4 unit sorceress, which took 32 damage twice. On top of that they are very fast. So this also gives a strategic element, but I can not help but feel that most regular units are just toast compared to them. I am not sure what to do about this as in particular lancers rely on high damage output. Perhaps retain how they are in open terrain but reduce them a bit in hills and woods. Not sure what with, -25% damage output or -20% or something like that. I could have played the scenario differently, making use more of terrain, but some terrain design just favours lancers in particular, e. g. the open type. I would perhaps consider increasing their hitpoints but reducing their damage output. That would still make them useful but not those insta-nukers. When a single lancer can kill my main hero with a bit of luck in one attack, then this is very annoying. I stopped the campaign because of that scenario - granted, this may be the design of the scenario but even then I still think lancers are very overpowered. Knights may be somewhat overpowered, but I don't mind them as much since they don't so easily one-shot my main heroes. Another lancer just rushed in and killed an avenger ranger also with two shots. That guy was in the forest, so 70% defence. Yes, luck plays a role, I get it, but ... some fatso guy on a big pony riding into the forest and the ranger is standing still? The pony can dodge easily from tree to tree and hovers in the air or something? I get that wesnoth does not really want to be complex and complicated, but it is still a bit silly how the expert tree guy is stabbed in one round by a knight guy. (Or, I think it was a lancer actually). The damage needs to be reviewed in my opinion; it is also fine to review the elven ranger of course; it is probably also somewhat overpowered.
3) Elven marksman sniper. I don't complain about the markmanship and high damage output, but boy is that a squishy unit. The enemy lancer just nuked that one down. This was in open terrain so I don't mind as much, but really why would I want to pick a sniper? Any elven ranger is much better. Yes, the damage output is less, but he has more hp and does better in melee, so I think the long term cost actually favours them. This is only a small complaint though, both 1) and especially 2) I consider more problematic.
I understand that balance may cause other balance-related changes, so this should be thought through, but right now the lancer is really the most annoying, followed by ulfzerker. I don't quite have anywhere as much a gripe with most of the other units, they seem to be fairly well designed balance wise, considering all things, but some things are simply broken IMO - or at the least not ideally setup.
Perhaps we can think of more features and traits that are "light" and that may help against some of those overpowered units in 1:1 scenarios. That way we could more strategically plan things too. Right now we seem hugely limited in what we can do - which I again understand is a feature of wesnoth (the old "keep it simple"), but I really would like to see some consideration to make the game a bit more flexible. Perhaps as an option to pick or so.
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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: Unit Balance and features
Move Shydes and Enchantresses and Sylphs on Mountains so Knight and Lancers cannot reach you. Take care of the infantry ones with Enchantresses and Shydes. This is the intended tactic which many seem to miss. You are the first one to be spanked by this scenario. Most certainly not the last.I quit, however, in the scenario where
there were 5 enemies or so, and they had knights level 2 and those impalers too.
Also, check 1,1 on right click on that scenario. you might find something hacky (a cheat).
Berserk poses little issue when you can counter with a Champion or Marshal. Be sure split clusters of berserkers as they can gang up.
Marksman one...well yeah. high damage should be accompanied with either low Hp or slow speed (Ancient Wose). Seen this design thing in many games.
Lastly, your feedback is way too loaded with too many words so the base point was hard to see. Concise would be better. I had to feed this to Claude to get the issue you were ranting about.
Creator of "War of Legends"
Creator of the Isle of Mists survival scenario.
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User:Knyghtmare | My Medium
Creator of the Isle of Mists survival scenario.
Maintainer of Forward They Cried
User:Knyghtmare | My Medium
Re: Unit Balance and features
as stated, certain units for certain causes - your weak HO archers need protecting so keep them out of the range of high damage enemies who can be lured in by something that might survive or even something expendable and then your elf's arrows will make mince of the horse unit
The first time I played Heir to the Throne the horse units in Scenario 22 - Return to Wesnoth slaughtered my army. The next time I following the info on the wiki and had a better army and was able to kill most of the knights. Just a bit of practice and experience.
The first time I played Heir to the Throne the horse units in Scenario 22 - Return to Wesnoth slaughtered my army. The next time I following the info on the wiki and had a better army and was able to kill most of the knights. Just a bit of practice and experience.