Real Ranged Attacks (Modification for 1.18.x)

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 15th, 2024, 6:25 pm

Real Ranged Attacks is a modification that has been created and maintained by me.

This modification introduces attacks over multiple hexes, replacing basic ranged attack.
!Without need for right-click menu.
Some functions are still in progress, or current engine doesn't support them.
(especially some graphic-related)

Any constructive criticism, bug reports and/or advice on the AI, UI, or balance options would be greatly appreciated.

Straff · Post by **Straff** » August 15th, 2024, 6:44 pm

Does not work for me.
Maybe because I don't have your add-on Bandits from Brown Hills installed?

Log file

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 15th, 2024, 7:49 pm

Hell, I forgot to change the data directory.
Thanks, repaired now. `:D

Straff · Post by **Straff** » August 15th, 2024, 8:23 pm

It works now, and it’s really fun.I don’t know how much it changes the balance yet, but it’s really fun.

Just a thought:
I don’t know if it’s possible, and not how complicated it is, but it would be cool if bows had a bigger range than thrown knives, And longbows should have the biggest range. That would be brilliant.

Post by **Ravana** » August 15th, 2024, 8:25 pm

This is quite impressive. Would be useful if you added list of planned changes, and list of aspects that are desired but not possible in engine.

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 16th, 2024, 4:51 am

Straff wrote: ↑August 15th, 2024, 8:23 pm I don’t know if it’s possible, and not how complicated it is, but it would be cool if bows had a bigger range than thrown knives, And longbows should have the biggest range. That would be brilliant.

With this, I would have to balance damage or hitpoints if high-range units and also if the enemy outranges your archers... you cannot retaliate.
So it would have to get really balanced, which seems really hard.

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 16th, 2024, 1:20 pm

Ravana wrote: ↑August 15th, 2024, 8:25 pm This is quite impressive. Would be useful if you added list of planned changes, and list of aspects that are desired but not possible in engine.

I have this list:
1. [Engine change required] don't select enemy unit after attack, no black stripes while the attack.
2. [working on the cpp ...] Move and ranged attack preshow
3. [made a PR] Orbs orange, if visible enemy in range.
4. [made an issue] AI need to filter specials active (+Graphic can't show active abilities in attack menu)
5. [doable, working on it] attack cauculations missing some multiplier tags.

6. (final) [Engine change required] Call the Lua dialog, instead of the current cpp one. (would be neat if it could be hooked in add-ons)

Is it helpful for you?
Is something misding there?

Post by **Ravana** » August 16th, 2024, 10:04 pm

Move+attack would be nicest to have out of these. I would try implement it as [teleport] next to target unit, while cancel the movement in exit_hex. That would not be +attack yet, but would move to max_range distance so you wouldnt have to count for move.

white_haired_uncle · August 16th, 2024, 11:23 pm

ZombieKnight wrote: ↑August 16th, 2024, 1:20 pm
3. [I think I could edit some cpp logic, seems simple] Orbs orange, if visible enemy in range.

You might look at an ability with no name and an overlay_image_self along with a filter to only set the ability active when an enemy is in range. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure you could do this all from wml/lua/wfl

https://wiki.wesnoth.org/AbilitiesWML

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 17th, 2024, 5:31 am

Ravana wrote: ↑August 16th, 2024, 10:04 pm Move+attack would be nicest to have out of these. I would try implement it as [teleport] next to target unit, while cancel the movement in exit_hex. That would not be +attack yet, but would move to max_range distance so you wouldnt have to count for move.

Yeah, using the same system as now, only with a pathfind to closest hex in X radius

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 17th, 2024, 5:34 am

white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑August 16th, 2024, 11:23 pm You might look at an ability with no name and an overlay_image_self along with a filter to only set the ability active when an enemy is in range. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure you could do this all from wml/lua/wfl

https://wiki.wesnoth.org/AbilitiesWML

Not a bad idea, throught I'd at leasy try it in cpp too.
Or is there a reason to not do that in cpp?

white_haired_uncle · August 17th, 2024, 10:52 am

ZombieKnight wrote: ↑August 17th, 2024, 5:34 am
white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑August 16th, 2024, 11:23 pm You might look at an ability with no name and an overlay_image_self along with a filter to only set the ability active when an enemy is in range. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure you could do this all from wml/lua/wfl

https://wiki.wesnoth.org/AbilitiesWML
Not a bad idea, throught I'd at leasy try it in cpp too.
Or is there a reason to not do that in cpp?

Since the change would pretty much only apply to your mod, I'd be kind of surprised if it was accepted, especially if it can be done with existing UMC tools anyway. I suppose it's possible, and it might be fun to try, but I doubt it would go anywhere.

Spannerbag · Post by **Spannerbag** » August 17th, 2024, 11:46 am

Just wanted to say that this is a slick piece of work!
Good job.

ZombieKnight wrote: ↑August 16th, 2024, 4:51 am
Straff wrote: ↑August 15th, 2024, 8:23 pm I don’t know if it’s possible, and not how complicated it is, but it would be cool if bows had a bigger range than thrown knives, And longbows should have the biggest range. That would be brilliant.
With this, I would have to balance damage or hitpoints if high-range units and also if the enemy outranges your archers... you cannot retaliate.
So it would have to get really balanced, which seems really hard.

Heh, I came up with loads of complicated ideas, all of which are probably unworkable/not worth the effort of implementing.
E.g. not only variable ranges but damage reduction as range increases (at variable rates of decay with distance for different attacks, of course

).

IMHO it does significantly change the game and some mechanism might be desirable to maybe balance the added advantage enjoyed by ranged attacks.
In particular, ranged poisoning is greatly enhanced (as I discovered when I tried out your mod in LoW1:The Uprooting... I'd forgotted slayers could now throw knives over the water north of the eastern keep

).

Haven't had time to properly explore your mod yet but did stumble across an animation issue on my very first use.
I played a few turns of DM1:This Valley Belongs to Me and found that Methor's attack animation was played over a friendly unity rather than the target.
Didn't see this with other attacks - but testing was hardly comprehensive as I was short on time.
Difficult to catch the effect but managed to get the last gasp via a screen grab.

: RRA.png (277.79 KiB) Viewed 698 times

As you can see the attack animation is over the friendly mage not the actual target.

Anyway, thanks for the mod, most enjoyable!

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

ZombieKnight · Post by **ZombieKnight** » August 17th, 2024, 3:20 pm

Spannerbag wrote: ↑August 17th, 2024, 11:46 am
Heh, I came up with loads of complicated ideas, all of which are probably unworkable/not worth the effort of implementing.
E.g. not only variable ranges but damage reduction as range increases (at variable rates of decay with distance for different attacks, of course ).

You can do this actually using specials and formulas that count distance and -5% damage per tile, for example. Or any other function.

I will include an example in the next update.

IMHO, it does significantly change the game, and some mechanism might be desirable to maybe balance the added advantage enjoyed by ranged attacks.
In particular, ranged poisoning is greatly enhanced (as I discovered when I tried out your mod in LoW1:The Uprooting... I'd forgotten slayers could now throw knives over the water north of the eastern keep ).

I tried to add the close lock to make it weaker, if you have any ideas on how to balance it, I'd like to hear them ^^.

Haven't had time to properly explore your mod yet but did stumble across an animation issue on my very first use.
I played a few turns of DM1:This Valley Belongs to Me and found that Methor's attack animation was played over a friendly unity rather than the target.
Didn't see this with other attacks - but testing was hardly comprehensive as I was short on time.
Difficult to catch the effect but managed to get the last gasp via a screen grab.
RRA.png

As you can see the attack animation is over the friendly mage not the actual target.

This is really complicated, currently all animations are played relative to the main unit, not defender.
This would need whole new system, including lots of animations data :/.

Anyway, thanks for the mod, most enjoyable!

Thanks

Atreides · Post by **Atreides** » August 17th, 2024, 4:27 pm

As Spock would say: fascinating. : )

So if I got it right it teleports next to the target does the ranged attack then ports back? Hehehe. One thing though... what happens if the target has no free hex next to it?

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