The Bees Journey

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Dragon-Friend
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by Dragon-Friend »

The beekeeper returns, having finished the campaign.
Last time I posted about the bee's portraits, now I have a suggestion: I am not a very good artist, but if you want I could sketch a few bees for you.
I have the live (and preserved) specimens of the species easily at hand for modelling.
The only type I would need to draw without a preserved model is a queen.

About the bees faction: from my experience, the manner these wesnoth bees acted, and the abilities they possessed, were too wrong for me to accept. :(
I played a bit into the first scenario, but refused to finish due to this.
So, as one familiar with honey bees, I modified them, all of them.
I played the campaign through, testing my modifications.
I am satisfied with the results, but they may need a few balancing adjustments.

On the story, throughout the campaign, it seemed like there was about to be a big reveal, but I was disappointed almost every time.
Would you want me to tell you what I was expecting?
I may give some ideas for story expansion, but the campaign's current state looks like my own: code completed, but only a basic story.
So I do not know if you plan on expanding the story yourself, which I would prefer (as I am not the author).
Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: December 20th, 2022, 2:44 am The undead join the ranks because KameRamen was shocked by Invasion from the Unknown.
The dialogue when Mal Kaldyn joins the group may have been difficult to understand because it was cut down considerably at the time of publication....
As for Mal Kaldyn's interogation:
First, he seems to be a coward. That needs to be maintained throughout the story.
Second, Dragochan should be more aggressive against him. (Drakes, my favorite faction, fair poorly against undead.)
Third, I agree that Mary should defend the pathetic lich; but Noaille should offer confinement options, as undead are dangerous.
Fourth, Mary should confiscate his staff, not use it. (At least until scenario 10. With my bees, she really doesn't need undead, unless she needs a tank unit.)
Personally, I never used the undead aside from scenarios 6, 18 and 20, but they were only useful in scenario 6.

I think Mary should ask Mal Kaldyn why he became a lich.
Dragochan would ask why that matters, which Mary might ignore or answer that his answer will tell what is most important to him (Mal Kaldyn).
Maybe Mal Kaldyn lost sight of what was important to him, while fighting to survive or any number of things.
But if his objective was worthwhile, then Mary could tell him she can help him achieve it without using immoral means.
If this is the case, Mal Kaldyn would probably become very fond of Mary. (overcoming his cowardice to protect her, which Dragochan would admire.)

If you want inspiration, lookup <i>Girl Undead</i>. It is one of the very few undead-based campaigns I like. (and it is very well made.)

EDIT: :oops: sorry, I forgot to post the bees abilities events; without those, the bees will not work properly!
Attachments
bee_events.txt
bees will not work without their events!
(10.62 KiB) Downloaded 34 times
Bees.zip
modified bees
(25.35 KiB) Downloaded 30 times
'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.' Aragorn to Eomer The Lord of the Rings
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Konrad2 wrote: January 4th, 2023, 12:00 pm All the items in the campaign:
It would be useful if the player was told what the item can do, before assigning it to a unit.

(Pending more.)

Replays
Spoiler:
Hello, Konrad2.
I have taken your advice and modified the English text. It will be released as v1.2.1 in the near future.
I will also fix the events of the items. Thank you!
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 6th, 2023, 6:16 pm The beekeeper returns, having finished the campaign.
Hi, Dragon-Friend.
Thanks for playing.

I'm so glad you suggested portraits! If you can give us a sketch, please attach it here :D

Interesting modification to the honeybee unit! However, I am not very good at programming and it took me quite a while to decipher the BEE_EVENTS. If possible, we would like to incorporate these improved bees into our campaign, if you don't mind (and we would like to credit Dragon-Friend's name when we do so)?
However, I think attack, HP, and resistance need a little adjustment. Due to their low offensive power in situations without balling or venom and their overall weak HP and resistance, they may be at a disadvantage when fighting default Wesnoth units (especially Mage).
So, if you would like, we would like to discuss this again here.

Stories are a problem for me as well.
There had been virtually no add-ons in the past featuring wildlife such as honeybees. We wondered if the story should be like a regular human tribe campaign or if it should be its own wild story, resulting in the half-baked story we have now.
The campaign was originally conceived as a gag campaign, Relatively serious stories, such as heading to the continent and meeting the elves or fighting the great mage of Weldyn, were not initially planned.
I will completely revise the story in the future. However, I am not sure if I alone can improve it, so any ideas would be appreciated.

Mal Kaldyn Discussion:
Girl Undead has been played before by me as well. That's funny!
We will put the hiring and summoning of the undead on the agenda for consideration.We will put the hiring and summoning of the undead on the agenda for consideration. I will also try to rework the scene where he joins the group and the subsequent storyline.

Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy article :shock:
The opinions of beekeepers are very helpful. I look forward to hearing from you again, including sketches of the bees and any modifications to the unit.
Kame means turtle in Japanese. I chose this name because I love turtles and ramen.
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by Dragon-Friend »

Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 4th, 2023, 12:42 am (Question #2. How did these news reach her?)
-There was a story about a barely surviving bee that emitted a messenger pheromone and Mary sensed it, but I deleted it. I will consider whether to add it again.
I have been thinking about this question, and I know a solution. (KameRamen gets +5 points, for knowing that bees use pheromones to communicate. That makes a total of 15 points; his first 10 were from knowing about the life and distinction of drones vs bees.)
The way a bee would know of the collapse of a neighboring hive would be drifters. Surviving bees from the collapsed colony would drift (attempt to move into) to other hives. Usually this is bad because they bring any mites and diseases, which aided in the collapse of their hive, to the colony they are moving into.
Maybe that scenario should start with a have a few extra level 1/2 bees. (Maybe give them the 'Aged' trait?)
Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 8th, 2023, 6:10 am I'm so glad you suggested portraits! If you can give us a sketch, please attach it here :D

Interesting modification to the honeybee unit! However, I am not very good at programming and it took me quite a while to decipher the BEE_EVENTS. If possible, we would like to incorporate these improved bees into our campaign, if you don't mind (and we would like to credit Dragon-Friend's name when we do so)?
However, I think attack, HP, and resistance need a little adjustment. Due to their low offensive power in situations without balling or venom and their overall weak HP and resistance, they may be at a disadvantage when fighting default Wesnoth units (especially Mage).
So, if you would like, we would like to discuss this again here.

Stories are a problem for me as well.
There had been virtually no add-ons in the past featuring wildlife such as honeybees. We wondered if the story should be like a regular human tribe campaign or if it should be its own wild story, resulting in the half-baked story we have now.
The campaign was originally conceived as a gag campaign, Relatively serious stories, such as heading to the continent and meeting the elves or fighting the great mage of Weldyn, were not initially planned.
I will completely revise the story in the future. However, I am not sure if I alone can improve it, so any ideas would be appreciated.
we would like to incorporate these improved bees into our campaign Yes you can, that is why I modified them.
However, I think attack, HP, and resistance need a little adjustment.
I based my version of the bee faction on low attack, hp, and resistance because bees are small and weak, so they need balling and venom. (But I have no idea how to tell the AI how to use those abilities.)
Basically their defense and low cost is their balancing factor (hard to hit spam units), unless they fight units with 'Marksman' or 'Magical' attacks, they have rather good balance. (Please notice I did not say perfect balance. I adjusted the units twice, they were a bit stronger and more resistant the first time.)
Personally I would wait for players complaints suggestions before I modify them, but I give you the right to modify/balance them. I thought maybe 'skilled bee' and 'elder bee' should have the 'Marksman' special for their stings, and perhaps all of the house bee's upgrades should retain their sting, but that might be a bit too strong. Spy bee should probably get the 'balling' ability.

In situations without balling or venom
At first, I thought there it might be a problem too, I really think there wouldn't exist any such situation against the default factions. (I did play a test scenario, pitting them against Loyalists, Rebels, Undead, and Hornets, to see if they were too weak, and to perfect their BEE_EVENTS.)
Stings will not work on undead, but balling does; and undead have a low resistance to 'fire'. Balling will be ineffective against drakes, they have high 'fire' resistance, but stings will. Also, the drone has 'slows', which is a great help in saving bees. (So everything is okay-ish until scenario 9, I allied with the yeti, without that, my bee faction probably could not have won.)

Portraits
I apologize in advance, sketching is going to take me a long time (Plus I am a perfectionist.), but I will work on it. Additionally, I intend to record my bees buzzing for the unit sounds.

Missing? Story Suggestions
In scenario 2, Dragochan says he will explain his joining me after the battle, but doesn't. (It was probable cut.)
In scenario 3, we are already discussing Mal.
In scenario 6, Nechan could be a spy, so he should prove himself; most likely in an 'attack' event. Dragochan would still be suspicious, Mary welcoming (in honor of their former pact/relationship), and Mal, needs to show good nature and accept him.
In scenario 7, has a good beginning chat, but it mentions nothing of the ants betrayal.
In scenario 8, Tilan doesn't ask Dragochan about the bees or the undead. The undead have no comments when being attacked by 'pathetic insects' (attack/sighted events).
In scenario 9, there is no [story] about Tilan and Dragochan or if the bees stayed with the drakes at all.
In scenario 17, the elves do not react to the undead.
In scenario 19, there are no sighted events, the humans don't care if they see bees, undead or a drake. (In my case, sneaking past them.)
In scenario 20, there are no sighted events, the humans don't care if they see bees, undead or a drake.
I will certainly have more ideas later, but this is what I have for now.
'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.' Aragorn to Eomer The Lord of the Rings
Konrad2
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by Konrad2 »

Decision
Spoiler:
Irony
Spoiler:
A Border
Will add later.

Long Night
Will add later.

The Bees Journey
Will add later.

Epilogue
Will add later.

(I'll try to finish it within a week.)
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:57 pm I have been thinking about this question, and I know a solution. (KameRamen gets +5 points, for knowing that bees use pheromones to communicate. That makes a total of 15 points; his first 10 were from knowing about the life and distinction of drones vs bees.)...
Hi, Dragon-Friend.
Thank you for your prompt reply.
+5 points glad to hear it :D
Dragon-Friend wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:57 pm ...The way a bee would know of the collapse of a neighboring hive would be drifters. Surviving bees from the collapsed colony would drift (attempt to move into) to other hives...
Thanks for the good suggestion!
I will try to place several bees with Aged traits at the start of scenario 07. If so, should that unit have the Loyal traits?

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:57 pm ...Basically their defense and low cost is their balancing factor (hard to hit spam units), unless they fight units with 'Marksman' or 'Magical' attacks, they have rather good balance...
I think it is certainly quite balanced. After playing a few times, I found the very high evasion rate and mobility to be very impressive, showing the hidden strength of the bee.
I made my own balance adjustments based on your version. I adjusted attack power and HP to be a little higher (+1~), and Balling and Venom were given to Bee Scout type units.
The major change is ALMA: We have added ALMA enhanced attack, increased strength, and resistance events to some units.
The current Insects folder is attached (it is only a beta version).

The opinions of beekeepers are very helpful. Please give me feedback again.

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:57 pm ...I apologize in advance, sketching is going to take me a long time (Plus I am a perfectionist.), but I will work on it...
Thanks for the sketch. It is okay when you have time, so please take it easy. (Also, bee buzzing!? Is there such a thing!?)

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 8th, 2023, 8:57 pm ...Missing? Story Suggestions...
Very helpful. I think some of it has been cut down considerably. I will try to improve it by adding messages and events.
If you have any areas of concern, please do not hesitate to reply us again!

Thanks for the feedback.

EDIT : Sorry, there were quite a few bugs, so I fixed them (Insects.zip,ABILITY.cfg,WEAPON_SPECIAL.cfg) :oops:
I also adjusted the attack power as I felt it was slightly too high.
Attachments
BEE_EVENTS.cfg
(10.63 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
ABILITY.cfg
(1.91 KiB) Downloaded 27 times
WEAPON_SPECIAL.cfg
(634 Bytes) Downloaded 29 times
insects.zip
(28.76 KiB) Downloaded 39 times
units.cfg
(2.17 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
Last edited by Wesnoth-KameRamen on January 9th, 2023, 6:21 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Konrad2 wrote: January 8th, 2023, 9:41 pm Decision
Spoiler:
Irony
Spoiler:
Hello, Konrad2.

Thank you for the English text suggestion :)
I will try to correct it. However, I am working on modifying the unit and scenario files now, so it may be a little while before I can release it to the public.

Thanks for playing.
We hope to see you again!
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by Konrad2 »

Something I forgot to point out:
There are likely some things that get mistranslated because of my changes. I can only guess at the original intent, and sometimes I'll simply rewrite things so they make sense, grammatically wise. So if there is a ever a chance that someone who is both fluent in japanese and english could take a look at the english translation, that would be great.

A Border
Spoiler:

Long Night
Spoiler:
The Bees Journey
Spoiler:
Epilogue
Spoiler:
Done.
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by Dragon-Friend »

Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 9th, 2023, 1:39 am I will try to place several bees with Aged traits at the start of scenario 07. If so, should that unit have the Loyal traits?

The current Insects folder is attached (it is only a beta version).

Thanks for the sketch. It is okay when you have time, so please take it easy. (Also, bee buzzing!? Is there such a thing!?)
Loyal?... I would say no, because they came from another hive. (In most cases, they would be stung to death, because their smell would be different. :shock: )

I will have to look at the units (and play with them) later, but I am interested in the differences.

Bee buzzing... yes, and it is very helpful to the beekeeper; they fan their wings in different tunes that indicate calm, aggression, loss of the queen's presence, the distinctive "I'm stuck!"... Yeah, bees are complex creatures.
Youtube video: Where is the queen? Listen closely and you will find her https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1NcgIHREw
'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.' Aragorn to Eomer The Lord of the Rings
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Konrad2 wrote: January 9th, 2023, 2:32 pm Something I forgot to point out:
There are likely some things that get mistranslated because of my changes. I can only guess at the original intent, and sometimes I'll simply rewrite things so they make sense, grammatically wise. So if there is a ever a chance that someone who is both fluent in japanese and english could take a look at the english translation, that would be great.

A Border
Spoiler:

Long Night
Spoiler:
The Bees Journey
Spoiler:
Epilogue
Spoiler:
Done.
Hello, Konrad2.
Thanks for advice the English text!

Something I forgot to point out
-All corrections are done. We are checking and correcting here as well, so it will probably be fine.
I'm very grateful!

^ Why can I recruit elves again? Nothing was said about new elves joinging my army.
-Added dialogue to Clovis. Thanks for the feedback.

Thank you for your continued support. :D
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 10th, 2023, 12:16 am
Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 9th, 2023, 1:39 am I will try to place several bees with Aged traits at the start of scenario 07. If so, should that unit have the Loyal traits?

The current Insects folder is attached (it is only a beta version).

Thanks for the sketch. It is okay when you have time, so please take it easy. (Also, bee buzzing!? Is there such a thing!?)
Loyal?... I would say no, because they came from another hive. (In most cases, they would be stung to death, because their smell would be different. :shock: )

I will have to look at the units (and play with them) later, but I am interested in the differences.

Bee buzzing... yes, and it is very helpful to the beekeeper; they fan their wings in different tunes that indicate calm, aggression, loss of the queen's presence, the distinctive "I'm stuck!"... Yeah, bees are complex creatures.
Youtube video: Where is the queen? Listen closely and you will find her https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1NcgIHREw
Hi, Dragon-Friend.
Good to see you again :D

Come to think of it, bees are enemies of each other if they smell differently. I will try to put only Aged on it.

Now, as for the unit, I am attaching a reworked version with bug fixes and balance adjustments.
We will release it as v1.2.1 in the near future. Starting with v1.2.1, we will operate this units on a "hard" level on a trial basis (we will call it "Queen [Real Edition] (Experimental)" because the actual difficulty level will not change much).
We plan to move to this eventually after making adjustments.

I saw the video! Bees are so angry, aren't they? I didn't think that the sound of the wings would be that different with and without the queen :shock:
(By the way, the beekeeper was touching the bees with his bare hands, but won't he get stung?)



Other changes and additions will be made in v1.2.1, including corrections and additions to the English text and dialogue. Nechan has added attack events, and the option to recruit or can't hrecruit undead is now optional. We have also added sighting events in later scenarios and added more story text.
Please look forward to it.

Thank you for everything. I look forward to working with you again.
Attachments
units.cfg
(3.12 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
insects_real.zip
(28.97 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
WEAPON_SPECIAL.cfg
(657 Bytes) Downloaded 27 times
BEE_EVENTS.cfg
(10.65 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
ABILITY.cfg
(1.94 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by Dragon-Friend »

Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 10th, 2023, 5:04 am I saw the video! Bees are so angry, aren't they? I didn't think that the sound of the wings would be that different with and without the queen :shock:
(By the way, the beekeeper was touching the bees with his bare hands, but won't he get stung?)

Other changes and additions will be made in v1.2.1, including corrections and additions to the English text and dialogue. Nechan has added attack events, and the option to recruit or can't hrecruit undead is now optional. We have also added sighting events in later scenarios and added more story text.
Please look forward to it.
Yes he might get stung, but unless the bees are an aggressive breed, they are very mindful of the fact that stinging something larger than an insect is suicide, literally. When they attempt to remove their stinger, (from non insects) their body tears from the stress, leaving their stinger and the venom sack (and sometimes something else) behind. The life of a bee is... hard to say the least. (Some beekeepers prefer not to wear gloves, so their sense of touch is not impaired. This can be helpful in not crushing bees. I personally prefer to wear gloves, unless I need maximum hand mobility for detailed work.)

I am looking forward to seeing (and playing) the new version.
'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.' Aragorn to Eomer The Lord of the Rings
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

Dragon-Friend wrote: January 11th, 2023, 2:26 am
Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 10th, 2023, 5:04 am I saw the video! Bees are so angry, aren't they? I didn't think that the sound of the wings would be that different with and without the queen :shock:
(By the way, the beekeeper was touching the bees with his bare hands, but won't he get stung?)

Other changes and additions will be made in v1.2.1, including corrections and additions to the English text and dialogue. Nechan has added attack events, and the option to recruit or can't hrecruit undead is now optional. We have also added sighting events in later scenarios and added more story text.
Please look forward to it.
Yes he might get stung, but unless the bees are an aggressive breed, they are very mindful of the fact that stinging something larger than an insect is suicide, literally. When they attempt to remove their stinger, (from non insects) their body tears from the stress, leaving their stinger and the venom sack (and sometimes something else) behind. The life of a bee is... hard to say the least. (Some beekeepers prefer not to wear gloves, so their sense of touch is not impaired. This can be helpful in not crushing bees. I personally prefer to wear gloves, unless I need maximum hand mobility for detailed work.)

I am looking forward to seeing (and playing) the new version.
I see, once a bee stings an enemy, it dies... Indeed, that is a spectacular life.

We released v1.2.1 (and v1.2.2).
I think the new version has improved a lot, but there are still many pending issues (units, stories, etc). We are looking for feedback :)
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by egallager »

Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 11th, 2023, 6:01 am
Dragon-Friend wrote: January 11th, 2023, 2:26 am
Wesnoth-KameRamen wrote: January 10th, 2023, 5:04 am I saw the video! Bees are so angry, aren't they? I didn't think that the sound of the wings would be that different with and without the queen :shock:
(By the way, the beekeeper was touching the bees with his bare hands, but won't he get stung?)

Other changes and additions will be made in v1.2.1, including corrections and additions to the English text and dialogue. Nechan has added attack events, and the option to recruit or can't hrecruit undead is now optional. We have also added sighting events in later scenarios and added more story text.
Please look forward to it.
Yes he might get stung, but unless the bees are an aggressive breed, they are very mindful of the fact that stinging something larger than an insect is suicide, literally. When they attempt to remove their stinger, (from non insects) their body tears from the stress, leaving their stinger and the venom sack (and sometimes something else) behind. The life of a bee is... hard to say the least. (Some beekeepers prefer not to wear gloves, so their sense of touch is not impaired. This can be helpful in not crushing bees. I personally prefer to wear gloves, unless I need maximum hand mobility for detailed work.)

I am looking forward to seeing (and playing) the new version.
I see, once a bee stings an enemy, it dies... Indeed, that is a spectacular life.
While that might be how bees work in real life, I think it's ok to ignore that fact about them in a fantasy video game like Wesnoth; what's more important is whether the gameplay is fun and does what you want it to do.
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Re: The Bees Journey

Post by KameRamen »

egallager wrote: January 11th, 2023, 2:27 pm While that might be how bees work in real life, I think it's ok to ignore that fact about them in a fantasy video game like Wesnoth; what's more important is whether the gameplay is fun and does what you want it to do.
Hello, egallager.
Thanks for the advice.

Of course, the most important thing is the fun of gameplay, so we would like to give priority to that. It is hard to make a game work if you die after stabbing once, so we do not plan to introduce that system.
However, I noticed that by making the bees closer to real bees, the game becomes more interesting at the same time. So, I hope to mix the realistic aspect with the fantasy aspect and strike just the right balance.

My goal is for this campaign to be a catalyst for thinking about the little insects. In Japan in particular, insects are not present in many people's daily lives and are not well-liked. I hope that through the game, more people will come to love bees and other insects.

Please let me know if you notice anything else :)
Kame means turtle in Japanese. I chose this name because I love turtles and ramen.
Author of The Bees Journey, A Starry Forest, and Beyond the Eternal Morning
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