1.17 Dunefolk (at least for now)

[doofus-01]

This is a WIP for the falconer line of the Dunefolk. This isn't the most important Dunefolk portait, and I'm not LordBob, but maybe this can spur some progress.

falconer-1.jpg (61.17 KiB) Viewed 5279 times

(facial expression needs some work)

[ThroneGame]

I think the proportins are off. Left arm is too long, right arm is too beefy, legs are very short.
Understandable, it's WIP but pointing out early in the process is important.

[GodOfTomatoes]

The falcon looks really nice, however the glove looks way too large and the face looks very strange to me. Red is an odd-hair choice to show representation as that's a hair color typically seen on lighter skinned characters and makes this character's hair feel dyed. The face also looks quite off and gives a feeling like it's mixing orcish features with a darker-skinned character.

I think using some images like these could help a lot with improving the looks of the character. Also extra note: It feels off how the clothes, skin, and falcon are all done with sharp variances in detail and color. It makes it feel like three separate drawings combined together rather than a cohesive style.

[dwarftough]

Don't forget, Dunefolk Falconer can only be women

[GodOfTomatoes]

Ah, mb. I forgot Falconers are women only. The first image I sent is a woman though, sort of similar to Casca from Berserk. Either way the images I sent were to show how darker skinned characters look, hence neither of them are specifically a falconer. More reference images could be found if trying to get precise things from them.

[doofus-01]

I think the proportins are off. Left arm is too long, right arm is too beefy, legs are very short.
Understandable, it's WIP but pointing out early in the process is important.

For sure, thanks for the reality check.

I've opened a draft PR for this, for future updates on this see #7061

[Mirion147]

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason that this post was made if no updates were going to be made here? I see that there has been an update in github but why make the post here at all?

Even so, searching through the github file to find the portrait, the hair color is unnatural looking and unexplained, the right arm is still seemingly quite massive, the face still seems poorly designed, and tbh I'm not sure how the coloring works in the setting (though you could chalk it up to blue desert flowers since it's a fantasy setting).

Either way, I know I don't have much to say but I don't think that's mainline quality. It may be the best we have, but does that mean it should be added?

[Heindal]

I like the falconers portrait, however the glove and the blue ribbon needs some shadows as the look different from the rest of the portrait.
But these are just details.

[doofus-01]

Either way, I know I don't have much to say but I don't think that's mainline quality.

You've said a fair amount, not all of it was helpful.

I get the message that some people don't like the face, but given the vagueness of the complaints, I don't know if it's because something is really wrong or it's just because it's not a 14 year old girl.

Beefy arm was for padding against the talons, and the glove is obviously similar. If that's too hard to understand, I could put the padding outside to make it more clear.

[beetlenaut]

I hope you are not feeling unappreciated, doofus. We don't have enough artists right now, and I'm glad you are working on this. I don't think anybody commenting could have done better, or they would have sketched some revisions themselves! (I know I couldn't have.)

I get the message that some people don't like the face

I think what I'm seeing is that the left and right sides of her face have different perspectives. I think we should see less of her cheekbones and eye on the shadowed side. I also think the smaller nose, fuller lips, and softer shading of the WIP look more feminine than the current version. I'm not hoping for a 14-year-old girl, but I don't think I would be sure that it was a woman at all if I hadn't been told.

Beefy arm was for padding against the talons, and the glove is obviously similar.

I've held birds like this, and the glove looks about right to me. I think the sleeve is fine as well. I think the problem is the contrast with the other hand. On the near side, the hand, wrist, and fingers are all too narrow, and the forearm is too long. You have changed it slightly, but I feel like more than a slight change was necessary.

[doofus-01]

Thanks, beetlenaut. It's not so much a question of feeling unappreciated (this is a FOSS project, so being unappreciated is part of the benefits package) as it is getting negative feedback that is thoughtless or trollish - maybe the trolls are just trolls, maybe they are getting at something real, or maybe they are full of [censored]. Figuring that out is meta-work that I don't need, so in the end I will ignore it.

That said, it is still necessary to have other eyes engaged, especially for something like these Dunefolk. Thanks for the specifics.
(And thanks to GodOfTomatoes, ThroneGame, and Heindal, for specifics as well)

[Hejnewar]

Even so, searching through the github file to find the portrait, the hair color is unnatural looking and unexplained

That's actually good point, I think that portraits should (for standard units) be actually standard and as close to average as possible, does that mean that all dunefolk have hair like that? If you want to have hero sure, but this is not meant for hero.

Additionally, I have no idea who is wearing hat on top of the hood but that doesnt seem very practical at all, I know that in game sprite has something similar but there it looks like feathers with mangeta on them, and here it looks like "please shoot me, Im making the same mistake that French army did once and got anihhilated" (-10% dodge right there).

And lastly, in game sprite and potrait looking as close as possible seems to the a thing that people value the most and complain about the most form my experience (youtube, discord, reddit etc.) and in game her face is covered, so why even have face when you can have face mask? (Other than that its actually pretty good in that aspect unlike Quenoth and many other units.)

Wesnoth quality is going up and up and up, it is normal that people will start to have expectations and when they see something that is not up to the new higher standard (in their opinion) they start to think if this should be in game. Especially if in the same portait you see something that is of much higher quality, aka. the Falcon that looks great (except for the right leg that should be closer to the middle of the body and not stick out like that) and then there is the unit that doesn't actually look as good (she has very big nose imo btw.) (refering obvoiusly to the github version).

Pics for reference:

[ThroneGame]

I hope you are not feeling unappreciated, doofus. We don't have enough artists right now, and I'm glad you are working on this. I don't think anybody commenting could have done better, or they would have sketched some revisions themselves! (I know I couldn't have.)

I get the message that some people don't like the face

I think what I'm seeing is that the left and right sides of her face have different perspectives. I think we should see less of her cheekbones and eye on the shadowed side. I also think the smaller nose, fuller lips, and softer shading of the WIP look more feminine than the current version. I'm not hoping for a 14-year-old girl, but I don't think I would be sure that it was a woman at all if I hadn't been told.

Beefy arm was for padding against the talons, and the glove is obviously similar.

I've held birds like this, and the glove looks about right to me. I think the sleeve is fine as well. I think the problem is the contrast with the other hand. On the near side, the hand, wrist, and fingers are all too narrow, and the forearm is too long. You have changed it slightly, but I feel like more than a slight change was necessary.

Good, I decided to prove you wrong on the first one!

[ForestDragon]

Very nice portrait I like it (ThroneGame)

Honestly might fit the game better than doofus's image

[beetlenaut]

Good, I decided to prove you wrong on the first one!

Indeed, I stand corrected!