SXRPG Version 6.9.999 -- 1.18 Server

[Mabuse]

TOB LeaderKill T1/T3 GrandMage (Mage Class)

SXRPG Chapter IVTemple of Bones T1+T3 GrandMage.gz

this is already with the newest Version, i will load it up.

i found amulett of grand marshall though, alse it might have been not possible (on this run), also switched to no-luck mode somewhere in between
i aimed for t1/t2 though, but ran out of moves and mana


however, mage can also kill early, ofc no weak mage
the new TOB version cannot prevent early kill, but will maybe cause some trouble for players later

[Mabuse]

The story continues, since i hadnt a save at the point of the replay (as i write it i realize that i could have saved the replay as a game and continue), however i replayed the last part and realized how much luck i had in the T1/T3 run, there was an item drop which i recycled for a blue potion, which i missed on this one so i had to wait another turn for T1/T4.


however, i continued from there on to see how mage will perform, (and to test the changes)
and yes, mage is kinda weak, i went precision focus and it worked out so far. also some luck with items

atm turn 30ish

SXRPG Chapter IVTemple of Bones The Story Continues.gz

(466.96 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

[Skyend]

Warrior seems okey on bigger maps, we played a bit on Chaper 2, I didn't had lvl3 Clasher, but Ghoul and Death Knight. Both weaker and more expensive to build in the early. So idk.

But probably in the end game there is still the huge adventage.

I went through all the resi upgrade u got in your game. It feels a bit too much.
Warrior has up to 10 based + 14 + 3 starting + 4 heavy armory + 3x 0.5 physicals. Later you may find 3x 15 magicals and 2 silver rings (2x0.5x6=6) and some random 5%.
With that a high resi warroir (10), has 325% without any, Items found. You ended up with 450%.

Surely that's maybe only/mainly in Solos the case tho I honestly don't like it.
Tho as mention earlier I'd prefer a cap. After 60 or 70% every additionnaly increase will be halved.
And Extra Armory at 3 slots.

For some builds there is also the interest of not taking Dauntless/Steadfast, but rather wanting extra armory only. I'm not sure if it really makes sense that it's a, 2nd tier ability.
Btw I also want to mention that Hero of the Realm is probably to bad? Why spending 2 ability points to get them and then you still need to pay (450 stamima, right?). I think first tier potion is just a no brainer to take, then you the option between spending 2 ability points or only 1 for your late game finish. (Doubt you'll have the ability points left)
I think they should only cost gold.

Do you use them?

[Skyend]

I saw you removed swift foot for ranger with the new upgrade. But can you instead remove light foot. (Yeah it makes a difference)

nvm, thanks for gift to my silver girl.

[Mabuse]

And Extra Armory at 3 slots.

For some builds there is also the interest of not taking Dauntless/Steadfast, but rather wanting extra armory only. I'm not sure if it really makes sense that it's a, 2nd tier ability.

suggestions wil be taken into account. i also thought about non locking it behind dauntless, but then again as you mentioned already, its powerful.

Btw I also want to mention that Hero of the Realm is probably to bad? Why spending 2 ability points to get them and then you still need to pay (450 stamima, right?). I think first tier potion is just a no brainer to take, then you the option between spending 2 ability points or only 1 for your late game finish. (Doubt you'll have the ability points left)
I think they should only cost gold.
Do you use them?

well, i also dont think there is any special usecase for heroes of the reaml ATM, that you could not solve with other abilties more effectively

heroes and summons use stats of bosses+creeps, so in theory, once they start to overpower you, you can fight back with your own creeps and bosses.
thats the only usecase. in general though, you wont have ability points left at this point, and the maps we have atm are too short to utilize that.

and even then it may be questionable and is not well tested.
the faster you are the less useful they will be. useage is probably turn 100 and beyond, you ran out of options and your hero/mage is too weal to engage directly (can still provide leadership bonus to heroes, mercs and summons). also the mana used for heroes/creeps is kinda stored.

problem is that you wont have ability points left in most cases once you become overpowered.

[Mabuse]

heroes and summons use stats of bosses+creeps, so in theory, once they start to overpower you, you can fight back with your own creeps and bosses.
thats the only usecase. in general though, you wont have ability points left at this point, and the maps we have atm are too short to utilize that.

and even then it may be questionable and is not well tested.

thing is that they lack some synergies, atm



but will recieve a massive upgrade:
-----------------------------------------------


- heroes and greater summons will be upgraded with leadership that give themself and other units around a +25% damage boost
(like player damage-items), so they can support other minions

- also they will recieve an "attack spell" which works same as player-attack-spell but cheaper, so they can attack more than once and be more versatile and useful

- they will recieve a heal-spell that allows them to heal for mana

(all spells cheaper minionfactor 35%)

- their ranged capabilities will be massively improved (on par with melee, so they will be mixed)

- also they will recieve some kind of drain, that will produce 1 mana for each successful strike



others:
-----------

- outlaws will also recieve scavenger-ability that produce 1 mana on a successful strike, undead will get drain with same effect



thx for pointing that out.
anyways, their main useage will in endgame on large maps, that not yet exist

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also TOB Map i missed a change in the boss list, but will be added

[Skyend]

chII:
Playtime 4h (feels good, but map is rather mid)

Ranger - Silver Mager
Warrior - Paladin (random)

SXRPG Chapter IIThe Evil Dead replay 20250922-225122.gz

(512.87 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Bug: Yellow Potion collected and put into the inventory while having advanced alchemy don't vanish (image stays, potion is gone)
note: warroir didn't felt op here; maybe because the map was bigger or we played in a duo idk (there are more melee based units on this map compared to chIV)

[Mabuse]

chII:
Playtime 4h (feels good, but map is rather mid)

Ranger - Silver Mager
Warrior - Paladin (random)

SXRPG Chapter IIThe Evil Dead replay 20250922-225122.gz

Bug: Yellow Potion collected and put into the inventory while having advanced alchemy don't vanish (image stays, potion is gone)
note: warroir didn't felt op here; maybe because the map was bigger or we played in a duo idk (there are more melee based units on this map compared to chIV)

nice replay

meanwhile i prepared a little update (that may not be final) to spice up player summons.

basically summons can now pck up a lot more stuff, including plants (player benefits, not minion), some summons can
now get mana from attacks (and thus are effetively cheaper, maybe even used for mana farming), and heroes have more options a their disposal, ranging from attackspell and drinking potions (though heal only in shop, regen, external healing or red potions).

[Mabuse]

----------------------
Current Version:6.9.995
Gameplay+Balance+Bug Fix
----------------------


6.9.995
--------

gameplay:
----------
- TOB MAP Boss list change

- Minions can now collect many more Items, harvesting plants etc, only very few Items cannot be collected
(e.g. Yellow potions, certain amuletts)


- Outlaws + Undead Minions will generate Mana with each successful strike on offense
and got a berserk attack.

- Heroes-of-the-Realm and Advanced-Demons recieved +25% leadershipbonus on self and adjacent allies.
- Heroes-of-the-Realm and Advanced-Demons got changed, recieved better ranged weapons,
will generate mana of each successful attack on offense
- Heroes-of-the-Realm and Advanced-Demons have ALWAYS Attack-Spell and can reload their attacks with mana.
- Heroes-of-the-Realm and Advanced-Demons can use Red, Blue and Cyan Potions from Players Stock.

- Basic-Summon Player-Demons have now a ranged SLOW attack

- UNSLOW Spell now benefits from Spellboni and advancements

[Mabuse]

The story continues,

atm turn 30ish

SXRPG Chapter IVTemple of Bones The Story Continues.gz

btw, finished the game. was an old version but nevertheless.

TOB Turn 63 with Grand Mage
all the skeletal dragons got roasted (except one i think ..), they were dead the moment i realized out that they go down when i double my hp with divine health. which was also the moment i realizedf that im a walking yellow potion.

interestingly the same number of turns the warror had. and i tried really hard in the last turn to finish it.
mage used a bit of everything: divine health, alchemy, arcaneball (should have used something else instead though)

in conclusion we can say that warrior is in no way overpowered, if we take into account that he got alle the Armor Items, which will almost never happen
also divine health an simply be used as a compensation for missing armor, and if something is OP than it is divine health

simply buy more (and a lot) hp with mana.
the mage used focus-precision. i agree though thats it was pretty tight and ofc used no-luck mode
mage is pretty versatile with good attackspell-bonus and healingspell-bonus is also pretty good.

i used most of the mana for movement though.
and endgame was pretty much buying and using the potions right

SXRPG Chapter IVTemple of Bones TOB Great Mage Turn 63.gz

(514.06 KiB) Downloaded 5 times

[Mabuse]

one last balance update before new map
all minions (including heros, greater demons) lose skirmisher, as it is no longer needed and OP considering the cheaper minion movement costs

tome get a small boost

hvy armor ability be unlocked before dauntless or steadfast rejected because its not needed and dauntless is always beneficial, also hvy armor late game ability to get it early is in almost every case not good. and considering its potencial its not bad to lock it behind 2 ability points either.


----------------------
Current Version:6.9.999
Gameplay+Balance+Bug Fix
----------------------


6.9.999
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- all Minions that had SKIRMISHER Ability lose it. (all Demons, Heroes)
(is OP with cheap minion moibvementspell)

- Tome-of-Forbidden knowledge increase Mana from Kills by 15%

[Mabuse]

from what i estimate, warrior is still the most difficult class to play

that is mostly because warrior will lose HP like no other class (and thus also be more vulnerable to bad luck) and all things works against it, since
everything is driven by HP. it determines the lenght of kill streaks etc

healing? you need to spend an ability point. and no, there is no bonus you can profit from, except you spend another ability point
so you also have to spend the most mana for the fewest HP. Movement? you have to spend the mos mana for the fewest movement.

ability points in general. are scarce. you wanna be lass clumsy? spend two ability points. which you dont have, since you need
regen+daunless+fearless .. and alchemy for heal

what to buy?

other classes may buy damage and more damage only - but warrior need to think carefully and do the math right.
i also would really need to think more about what the best ration (for each special there is own calculation) would be.
What the best was to play it is.

warrior will always have a hard time, and all he small buffs wont fundamentally change that
sure 33% cheaper armor is nice, but you really need it

and once in mid-game everybody has dauntless+slow and 50% everywhere, you are again the one that bleeds most, and most likely the most clumsy
and this will not change till the end of the game, the bit of extra armor is extremely expensive, and will not cover everything. against the wrong foes you are again help- and clueless.

for he warrior thing always look grim, i guess.

i dont think that will change though. it is what it is.

[Mabuse]

took a bit inspiration from another thread

I found a formula to calculate the cost of a unit for balancing the game but is complex to calculate manual for every unit from Ageless. Any idea how to implement it into a program script to apply for all units (there are over 2750 units)?
The formula is:

Cost = ((HP * (1 + medium resistance) * (1 + medium defense) + medium damage + 2 * (movement - medium terrain movement cost)) / 4 + (number of abilities + 2 * attack types + 2 * damage types + 3 * number of poison attacks + 3 * number of slow attacks + 3 * number of plague attacks))/2

Medium resistance is arithmetic media of damage resistance (sum of resistance divided by 6 type of damage).
Medium damage is arithmetic media of damage of all weapons (sum of damage per strike * number of strikes for each weapon divided by number of weapons).
Medium defense is arithmetic media of all terrain defensive (the sum of all terrain defensive divided by 15 terrain types).
Medium terrain movement cost is arithmetic media of all terrain movement cost (the sum of all terrain movement costs divided by 15 terrain types).
Attack types = melee and range
Damage types = blade, impact, cold, pierce, fire, arcane
The rounding fractional number is made in the end of calculation.

in general enemy units will be a bit more balanced in next version, keeping l2 units within a certain cost range (maybe have a faction median), and lvl 3 units get either cheaper or more nasty. likely both. this may beef up median game a bit, once l3 enter the game. and also we may find some surpirses as some units may change a bit.

this may also result in some overhaul in enemy composition on some of the older maps.

the above is the formula i took as a base. movement got a bit more weight (double before substracting median_movecost), and more weight to different damage types and ranges. and more weight to specials in general, CTH modifiers directly increase damage calculation.

for SX balance i neglected median-terrain-modifier, as it has no effect in SX, since players get CTH specials early (well, they better do)

this will help balance SXRPG enemy units, as balance in SX is paradox. if i simply overpower Units and make them more expensive as a compensation, it will simply result in AI build fewer units and thus player have less gold.

if units are too cheap then player get more gold, but no nasty surprise.
as i found myself lacking a tool for balance


as for the new map, progress is good, i would lie to make a screenshot but that would only spoil the fun.

[Skyend]

Warrior maybe can get reduce potion cost? Or only blue one, since they are forced to have one at all time for insurance.
I just overreacted the last time they are probably as you said still worse than other classes. (maybe besides chapter 4)

[Mabuse]

Warrior maybe can get reduce potion cost? Or only blue one, since they are forced to have one at all time for insurance.
I just overreacted the last time they are probably as you said still worse than other classes. (maybe besides chapter 4)

hello,

i got a bit distracted from the new Map and spend some time rebalancing creeps, now there is improved balance creep-wise, which lead for ranged-units have a much harder life.

and slightly less income on some early maps, since some creeps cost more gold now, which results in potencially less creeps, and thus potencially less income for players. so difficulty is a bit up now, too as a result. (in general lvl1 creeps cost 22 gold as base, lvl 2 creeps 35 to 45 gold (35 being the standard), lvl 3 creeps start with 55 gold to 65 and have a negative gold/income ratio, so once lvl 3 get into play, things will ramp up in difficulty also. so in some maps (isle of dread e.g. lvl 3 creeps got delayed to turn 30, since for some reason they spawned around turn 20). as in genral lvl 3 creep should only recruited at turn 30, and lvl 2 creeps turned off at turn 50/60).

also it is now balanced to spawn lvl1 creeps, which may be occasionally thrown into the mix.


which results being warrior quite comfortable at start. from my perspective.

instead magic classes got a slight buff via TOME OF FORBIDEN KNOWLEDGE, which grants +34% mana from kill, as well increase circle+santification mana by +20% (every 5th successful attack another +1 mana), so you may go circle/santification + magic item 1 + tome as early strategy

so atm, warrior wont recieve a buff unless all gameplay is sorted out after new release.

i think that going dauntless + armor early for 40% (cheaper than slow) and then adding slow quickly is good for warrior since they have so much higher base damage

as for the blue potion thing, i think that alchemy is quite mandatory for warrior class, but the extra-attack may be better achieved via attack-spell in early+mid game. i underestimated attack-spell and also think it is quite good (maybe meta)

however, the new creeps will have an impact, mostly on ranged heroes, as most (non-ranged) creeps get a (defensive) ranged option now, especially the lvl3 creeps

so in general things got harder, some maps got adjusted, evil dead got some changes, life is harder for ranged, and warrior comes out as quite effective at start. ofc its not that versatile, so warrior needs to plan ahead more. but in general it is not recommended to play on highest difficulty for new maps, and for old maps you may be able prepare better.


i would load the new version up, but i think i will continue finishing the new map before doing so


i also changed the menus a bit, (e.g. dauntless+staedfast can be also bought form armory menu) and tried to update the explanation at start which things to buy and which not to buy, but it is very raw.