Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Alert! We've just published a big update to Den of Thieves on the add-ons server. DoT version 2.0 polishes, improves and expands on the campaign in several ways. Here are some of the changes...

Final Mission
The campaign now ends with a big showdown in Weldyn where the team you've put together will be put to the test. This mission takes place on a much larger map than the others, with winding streets connecting several districts. Players must hunt down and kill four royal henchmen (picked randomly from a pool of 16), each of which has a special death event to punish players. This final mission becomes available only after you've survived 50 turns on the world map.

Base Building Upgrades
The Den is now a hub of upgrades with extra rooms you can build and bonuses to unlock. You can set up a workshop to expand your base, build a barracks to train your thieves or visit the study to hatch a clandestine plot. Upgrades are purchased with 'renown' which is earned by completing missions.

Tweaks & Fixes
There have been tons of tweaks and fixes. The AI code has been rewritten, removing some unusual alarmist behaviour, and the prisoner code has been changed to prevent players encountering the same hero twice (thanks to mattsc for this fix). If you notice anything weird, let us know.

More Maps & Heroes
The campaign now has 90 randomised mission maps and 20 hero units with unique abilities. In a single game you'll probably only see about 10% of the total content, so no two playthroughs will be the same.
Attachments
Here's the Den, after the barracks and workshop have been built. Each area offers a different selection of upgrades.
Here's the Den, after the barracks and workshop have been built. Each area offers a different selection of upgrades.
The final mission in Weldyn is unlocked on turn 50. Players can go there when they're ready or try to finish off the remaining missions.
The final mission in Weldyn is unlocked on turn 50. Players can go there when they're ready or try to finish off the remaining missions.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by Computer_Player »

Amazing work. Will be trying these out soon :D Thank you!
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Spannerbag
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod) buglet?

Post by Spannerbag »

Hiya,

Posting this here after finding a buglet with 2.0 and notifying vghetto.

Spannerbag wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 1:55 pm Just updated the SP version and was enjoying the game, but hit a minor snag after first visit to and upgrade of the den.

Prior to that everything worked flawlessly. After various upgrades on the very next mission the game issued an error (see screen grab below).
DotSP_2021-01-22.png
Not played the actual scenario yet but message appears each time a unit is recalled. Units seem OK, as does gameplay (but not had chance to properly test it yet).

Also attached is a .zip of hopefully useful replays:
- den visit (only time I went there) prior to this mission
- world map replay for context
- mission .gz and turn 1 autosave (so you can maybe replicate the issue).
vghetto wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 3:03 pm ... seems to be ... when you have the upgrade den_study_covert.
Bug is in the file macros/mission_events.cfg line 409.
I think it should be filtering on ability=invisible instead of ability=assassin...
Can supply replays and saves if needed :)

Your efforts are much appreciated! :D

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by vghetto »

To make this more clear.
DOT_STORE_UNIT is looking for ability=assassin.
If the recalled unit doesn't have that ability, store_unit variable will be empty. Then the macro will try to [unstore_unit] that variable with the data status.started_hidden, which is a malformed [unit] definition and hence the error message.
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by Atreides »

Deleted my old save from v1 (I'd bungled it anyways) and started anew with 2.0. Some feedback.

I discovered the SP version this time around but when I start it it gives me this mysterious choice of 2p or 3p. No explanation given. Since I had no clue I chose the pre highlit 3p. Not sure what this was about. Does it affect the number of leaders I got? I got 3.

Suggest that guardian is renamed sentry! In millions of stories you take out the sentry/sentries. It would look so much better. :)

Analysis of the stealth options:
Ambush/conceal/swim alllow hiding any TIME while nightstalk allows hiding any WHERE. The first 3 seem generally more useful as the maps all have loads of places to hide but night is only 2/6 turns... Skulk is virtually useless as it needs both a specific terrain and time.

Analysis of the other options:
You really only need one trapper/lockpick in a mission as they can be used 1/turn. Best to add to 2 of the leaders so you get them for free every mission. Assassins are precious and you need as many as you can get. Always make leader #1 assassin. Never waste a leader on bomber. (That was a major bungle of mine in the first try) Bombers are tricky, they can be useful in several ways but it seems mainly their utility is duplicated more effectively by assassins and lockpicks. The only unique use appears to be blasting through walls which I've not yet needed to do. I did try it in the den to find the new areas. Good training exercise (not mentioned in the book though I saw it in a post here). I tried to use a bomber to kill an alerted unit but it was a bungle as it ran next to enemy and I guess the ZOC will always stop them meaning the L0 got killed in the retal next turn. The bomb detonated by another did kill the unit at the cost of the bomber... talk about kamikaze... :(

I just realized my other bungle that lost the second L0 was that I failed to use the proper command to view enemy moves. In stealth you must always use the one that ignores ZOC to see how far the sentries can see. If you see what I mean. ;) But I think there is another aspect too. I haven't played BfW long enough to know the gory details of when enemies see you. In normal combat you only worry if they can reach you, not if they can see you. I wonder if a unit can see you if you pass through their vision range or if they see you if you are adjacent to their max moves... not something that matters in most battles...

Anyways keep up the good work!
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by vghetto »

Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pm Deleted my old save from v1 (I'd bungled it anyways) and started anew with 2.0. Some feedback.

I discovered the SP version this time around but when I start it it gives me this mysterious choice of 2p or 3p. No explanation given. Since I had no clue I chose the pre highlit 3p. Not sure what this was about. Does it affect the number of leaders I got? I got 3.
Sorry for the confusion.
You downloaded the wrong version, please download the MP version of Den of Thieves, the one that doesn't have SP or my name attached to it.
I'll see about fixing this once #5403 works.

The SP version is meant to be played from "Campaigns" not from the Multiplayer screens.
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Hi Atreides. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the feedback.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pmI discovered the SP version this time around but when I start it it gives me this mysterious choice of 2p or 3p. No explanation given. Since I had no clue I chose the pre highlit 3p. Not sure what this was about. Does it affect the number of leaders I got? I got 3.
Den of Thieves is played through the multiplayer game set-up, with either 2 or 3 players.The SP fork is supposed to be played via main screen > campaigns.
(I don't even know why single player campaigns are visible in the MP set-up screen.)
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pmAnalysis of the stealth options:
Ambush/conceal/swim alllow hiding any TIME while nightstalk allows hiding any WHERE. The first 3 seem generally more useful as the maps all have loads of places to hide but night is only 2/6 turns... Skulk is virtually useless as it needs both a specific terrain and time.
You're right that some hiding abilities favour location while others favour timing, though nightstalk has its moments when the terrain is against you. I actually find skulk really useful when you're prowling through alleys and breaking into buildings, especially on a lockpicker.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pmAnalysis of the other options:
You really only need one trapper/lockpick in a mission as they can be used 1/turn. Best to add to 2 of the leaders so you get them for free every mission. Assassins are precious and you need as many as you can get. Always make leader #1 assassin. Never waste a leader on bomber. (That was a major bungle of mine in the first try) Bombers are tricky, they can be useful in several ways but it seems mainly their utility is duplicated more effectively by assassins and lockpicks. The only unique use appears to be blasting through walls which I've not yet needed to do. I did try it in the den to find the new areas. Good training exercise (not mentioned in the book though I saw it in a post here). I tried to use a bomber to kill an alerted unit but it was a bungle as it ran next to enemy and I guess the ZOC will always stop them meaning the L0 got killed in the retal next turn. The bomb detonated by another did kill the unit at the cost of the bomber... talk about kamikaze... :(
Another way to think about it is that bombers can do the job of a lockpicker AND an assassin. They're a versatile back-up. You can also lure enemies with a tough unit on good terrain so the following turn you can drop a bomb and back off - taking out several enemies/doors/walls at once. The ability becomes even better when the bomber has skirmisher (either with a Rogue, or by drinking a sprint potion). This way you can simply walk up to a group of enemies, plant the charge and then go hide.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pm I just realized my other bungle that lost the second L0 was that I failed to use the proper command to view enemy moves. In stealth you must always use the one that ignores ZOC to see how far the sentries can see. If you see what I mean. ;) But I think there is another aspect too. I haven't played BfW long enough to know the gory details of when enemies see you. In normal combat you only worry if they can reach you, not if they can see you. I wonder if a unit can see you if you pass through their vision range or if they see you if you are adjacent to their max moves... not something that matters in most battles...
Yeah, sometimes you need to count the hexes if the displayed movement of an enemy is restricted by another unit's Zoc. You'll soon get used to it. As for the vision/movement range, the campaign handles it exactly like normal Wesnoth. If an enemy unit can attack you, it will. Otherwise it will carry on doing whatever it was doing, standing or moving.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by Atreides »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 4:54 pm Hi Atreides. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the feedback.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pmI discovered the SP version this time around but when I start it it gives me this mysterious choice of 2p or 3p. No explanation given. Since I had no clue I chose the pre highlit 3p. Not sure what this was about. Does it affect the number of leaders I got? I got 3.
Den of Thieves is played through the multiplayer game set-up, with either 2 or 3 players.The SP fork is supposed to be played via main screen > campaigns.
(I don't even know why single player campaigns are visible in the MP set-up screen.)

Hmmm I _think_ I loaded it via campaigns. I guess I'll have to pay more attention at the start up, didn't think I needed to do anything except choose it and go. All this talk of multiple versions and MP vs campaign is confusing.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pmAnalysis of the stealth options:
Ambush/conceal/swim alllow hiding any TIME while nightstalk allows hiding any WHERE. The first 3 seem generally more useful as the maps all have loads of places to hide but night is only 2/6 turns... Skulk is virtually useless as it needs both a specific terrain and time.
You're right that some hiding abilities favour location while others favour timing, though nightstalk has its moments when the terrain is against you. I actually find skulk really useful when you're prowling through alleys and breaking into buildings, especially on a lockpicker.

I was thinking that an underground tunnel would favour a skulker, I guess I have only seen a very limited portion of what I might encounter.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pmAnalysis of the other options:
You really only need one trapper/lockpick in a mission as they can be used 1/turn. Best to add to 2 of the leaders so you get them for free every mission. Assassins are precious and you need as many as you can get. Always make leader #1 assassin. Never waste a leader on bomber. (That was a major bungle of mine in the first try) Bombers are tricky, they can be useful in several ways but it seems mainly their utility is duplicated more effectively by assassins and lockpicks. The only unique use appears to be blasting through walls which I've not yet needed to do. I did try it in the den to find the new areas. Good training exercise (not mentioned in the book though I saw it in a post here). I tried to use a bomber to kill an alerted unit but it was a bungle as it ran next to enemy and I guess the ZOC will always stop them meaning the L0 got killed in the retal next turn. The bomb detonated by another did kill the unit at the cost of the bomber... talk about kamikaze... :(
Another way to think about it is that bombers can do the job of a lockpicker AND an assassin. They're a versatile back-up. You can also lure enemies with a tough unit on good terrain so the following turn you can drop a bomb and back off - taking out several enemies/doors/walls at once. The ability becomes even better when the bomber has skirmisher (either with a Rogue, or by drinking a sprint potion). This way you can simply walk up to a group of enemies, plant the charge and then go hide.

OK, I was thinking about skirmisher, didn't realize it would become available. I guess I need to play deeper in to see some of the possibilities.
Atreides wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:31 pm I just realized my other bungle that lost the second L0 was that I failed to use the proper command to view enemy moves. In stealth you must always use the one that ignores ZOC to see how far the sentries can see. If you see what I mean. ;) But I think there is another aspect too. I haven't played BfW long enough to know the gory details of when enemies see you. In normal combat you only worry if they can reach you, not if they can see you. I wonder if a unit can see you if you pass through their vision range or if they see you if you are adjacent to their max moves... not something that matters in most battles...
Yeah, sometimes you need to count the hexes if the displayed movement of an enemy is restricted by another unit's Zoc. You'll soon get used to it. As for the vision/movement range, the campaign handles it exactly like normal Wesnoth. If an enemy unit can attack you, it will. Otherwise it will carry on doing whatever it was doing, standing or moving.
Ahhhh! (sound of penny dropping) Thanks, that clears it up perfectly
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by vghetto »

Sorry for confusing everybody. I updated the fork's server.pbl description to explain that it's a fork and that a multiplayer version exists.
I also disabled the 2p/3p selection for those that might start the SP version from the multiplayer screen.
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by dwarftough »

Hi everyone! I don't know where the support topic for the singleplayer version of this campaign is, in the add-on menu it has no topic listed, so I write it here. I've encountered a bug in a Recon mission, with escorted piligrims: it can't be done, killing escort for some reason doesn't count. Look at this two saves on the 4th turn, the first escort guy was counted but killing others doesn't add up to the counter, so I can't accomplish the mission.
Attachments
DOTSP-Den of Thieves - Recon Mission Turn 4EndBug.gz
After the bug
(111.75 KiB) Downloaded 177 times
DOTSP-Den of Thieves - Recon Mission Turn 4.gz
Before the bug
(112.61 KiB) Downloaded 172 times
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by vghetto »

Thanks for the bug report, dwarftough.
The bug also affects the MP version.

The role of the escort is "hunter", the filter is looking for role=escort. Maybe it should filtering on ability instead.
I'll wait for Bob's input before trying to fix this in the SP version.

Edit:
comma separating roles doesn't give the expected result.
https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=52361

filtering on role=vip,escort will not work as expected. I think it's because it will see the unit as having the role "vip,escort" and not vip or escort.

Edit2:
@dwarftough I updated the SP version with the fix. Thanks again for the bug report.
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by Atreides »

vghetto wrote: January 24th, 2021, 5:44 am Sorry for confusing everybody. I updated the fork's server.pbl description to explain that it's a fork and that a multiplayer version exists.
I also disabled the 2p/3p selection for those that might start the SP version from the multiplayer screen.
If I want to play this solo (I do, well unless I can find some players actually willing to commit!) should I be using your fork? Ewww. :) That sounds gross.

Also is it better to load it via the campaigns or does it matter at all now that you've altered it?
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by dwarftough »

Hi, was it a bug? In the replay, on the 5th turn of the second side, the wall wasn't destoyed
Attachments
Den of Thieves - Rescue Mission replayWallNotTouched.gz
(62.55 KiB) Downloaded 180 times
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by dwarftough »

Also, a Goblin prisoner can't level up to Wolf Rider, although intended to in the code
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Re: Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

Post by vghetto »

dwarftough wrote: February 2nd, 2021, 9:10 am Hi, was it a bug? In the replay, on the 5th turn of the second side, the wall wasn't destoyed
Probably. That wall didn't get destroyed because it was a wall + torch. Xoc^Efs
dwarftough wrote: February 2nd, 2021, 9:18 am Also, a Goblin prisoner can't level up to Wolf Rider, although intended to in the code
What did it advance to?
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