Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

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shevegen
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Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by shevegen »

Props to that - I'd never have the patience to do so. Sometimes I just make silly mistakes and
then I get annoyed and ragequit as-is. I do, however had, also accept the death of units, so
I don't always reload either. :P

Sometimes you may notice you went the wrong way or wasted too much time somewhere, so
reloading may be necessary to avoid getting stuck. Knowledge about the map for example;
it gets much easier when the map is known to the player.
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Atreides
Posts: 344
Joined: March 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm
Location: A Nude Land

Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by Atreides »

shevegen wrote: May 16th, 2021, 5:39 am Props to that - I'd never have the patience to do so. Sometimes I just make silly mistakes and
then I get annoyed and ragequit as-is. I do, however had, also accept the death of units, so
I don't always reload either. :P

Sometimes you may notice you went the wrong way or wasted too much time somewhere, so
reloading may be necessary to avoid getting stuck. Knowledge about the map for example;
it gets much easier when the map is known to the player.
Sometimes my old and shaky fingers fumble and I send a unit where it will die needlessly. That of course is always a valid reason to go back and redo it.
Somedays too I start a saved game and play, well, stupidly. I rush or don't bother to aquaint myself with the situation as I left it. Also a valid reason to quit and load the save again.
wesnothpoet
Posts: 13
Joined: March 26th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by wesnothpoet »

Atreides wrote: May 8th, 2021, 8:42 pm Permadeath. Ah that's what you call it. It's the only way I know to play. :) I've pretty much forsaken campaigns as a result. Not because I believe it impossible for me to get through a campaign but because I don't have fun playing with that much stress.

Curious about that mod now. The name makes me think it is something completely different!
Indeed I did not invent the term, I took it from here (along with inspiration for my quest):

https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=47709
wesnothpoet
Posts: 13
Joined: March 26th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by wesnothpoet »

shevegen wrote: May 16th, 2021, 5:39 am Props to that - I'd never have the patience to do so. Sometimes I just make silly mistakes and
then I get annoyed and ragequit as-is. I do, however had, also accept the death of units, so
I don't always reload either. :P

Sometimes you may notice you went the wrong way or wasted too much time somewhere, so
reloading may be necessary to avoid getting stuck. Knowledge about the map for example;
it gets much easier when the map is known to the player.
Of course I played through each campaign at least once completely before clearing it on permadeath, and often several times. This means I knew about all the maps, possible surprises, challenges etc. so most of my strategy was mapped out beforehand. Still it is not easy to do it without reloads...
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Atreides
Posts: 344
Joined: March 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm
Location: A Nude Land

Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by Atreides »

What would be interesting is to make a list of campaigns that are not designed to require cheating to play.

The novice/beginner mainline quests I think just qualify. I played them while still a newbie so they did seem too hard at the time. But I suspect they qualify.

Also these addon campaigns I found winnable without cheating:
Sand in the Wind
In the Ring
Beastly Tale
Merry Christmas
Price of Capture
wesnothpoet
Posts: 13
Joined: March 26th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by wesnothpoet »

Atreides wrote: May 18th, 2021, 3:17 pm What would be interesting is to make a list of campaigns that are not designed to require cheating to play.

The novice/beginner mainline quests I think just qualify. I played them while still a newbie so they did seem too hard at the time. But I suspect they qualify.

Also these addon campaigns I found winnable without cheating:
Sand in the Wind
In the Ring
Beastly Tale
Merry Christmas
Price of Capture
What do you qualify as "cheating"? Reloads, knowing the maps beforehand, borrowing other ppls strategy, etc.? I guess I showed that the intermediate campaigns *can* be done without reloads even on the hardest difficulty, but some of the expert campaigns appear too difficult for me. I've been trying to do Son of the Blackeye without reloads on the *easiest* difficulty (though it's called "Challenging") but even that is proving hard.
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Atreides
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Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by Atreides »

wesnothpoet wrote: May 19th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Atreides wrote: May 18th, 2021, 3:17 pm What would be interesting is to make a list of campaigns that are not designed to require cheating to play.

The novice/beginner mainline quests I think just qualify. I played them while still a newbie so they did seem too hard at the time. But I suspect they qualify.

Also these addon campaigns I found winnable without cheating:
Sand in the Wind
In the Ring
Beastly Tale
Merry Christmas
Price of Capture
What do you qualify as "cheating"? Reloads, knowing the maps beforehand, borrowing other ppls strategy, etc.? I guess I showed that the intermediate campaigns *can* be done without reloads even on the hardest difficulty, but some of the expert campaigns appear too difficult for me. I've been trying to do Son of the Blackeye without reloads on the *easiest* difficulty (though it's called "Challenging") but even that is proving hard.
Reloads, walkthroughs is what I count as cheating and what I won't do personally. What I do allow myself is to play a scenario more than once if I can't beat it on the first try. I'm not "happy" about that but some campaigns have 20 scenarios! Also I guess once I pass a scenario I consider it as in the can. Of course I am free to go back several scenarios and start further back if I realize that I failed to achieve some critical thing somewhere back.
Ideally... :) being able to get through a campaign in one go (only ever going forward) would be what I consider perfect. It is pretty stressful though and I don't really enjoy campaigns much as a result.
wesnothpoet
Posts: 13
Joined: March 26th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Re: Novice+intermediate campaigns on permadeath

Post by wesnothpoet »

Atreides wrote: May 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm Reloads, walkthroughs is what I count as cheating and what I won't do personally. What I do allow myself is to play a scenario more than once if I can't beat it on the first try. I'm not "happy" about that but some campaigns have 20 scenarios! Also I guess once I pass a scenario I consider it as in the can. Of course I am free to go back several scenarios and start further back if I realize that I failed to achieve some critical thing somewhere back.
Ideally... :) being able to get through a campaign in one go (only ever going forward) would be what I consider perfect. It is pretty stressful though and I don't really enjoy campaigns much as a result.
Something I really enjoyed while playing campaigns many times was to try different strategies on different maps. Sometimes a strategy that you think is decent turns out to be not nearly as good as some other strategy that you have yet to discover ;) That said, occasionally when I was really stuck did I look for replays by other players (whenever available, mostly on HttT I think). The campaigns that I'm most proud of are those for which there was basically no strategy available at all, or I had to think of completely different strategies, so the strategy for the entire campaign was basically "my own".

A big part of my exercise is to discover risk-free strategies that allow you to minimize losses (and stress) while playing campaigns without reloads. However, on some maps there simply isn't any risk-free strategy and the only option is to be aggressive or take your chances anyway.
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