The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

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Krogen
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Krogen » October 25th, 2019, 9:05 pm

Sounds more like poor scenario design than anything. Not unusual for NR. Leaving a unit overpowered to compensate for a lazy design is not the ideal solution. I would redraw the scenario itself.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister

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Sadaharu
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Sadaharu » October 27th, 2019, 5:30 am

I am inclined to think so too, but this particular characteristic of NR's finale has been so since the first time I played it, back in BfW 1.10, so maybe the developers disagree.

Also (no names given, in order to avoid starting a flame war) I have noticed that many campaign scenarios in which there are dwarvish AI-controlled allies devolve into escort/first-strike missions because of the terrain settings.

Mawmoocn
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Mawmoocn » October 29th, 2019, 12:22 am

So this is basically your counterargument. Mainly for PvE...
  1. Dwarf line is bad on chasing enemies without movement speed unit support. (Other units can help with this)
  2. Poison kills these units but takes many turns...
  3. Mountains don’t appear in the middle of the road... yeah basically they’re dead without resistances due to lack of mountains and hills on a map without them or have scarce terrain allocation to their advantage.
  4. They lose the power to initiate counteroffensive when the day of time favors them and even with support, they barely manage to go to these zones.
    Basically, they’re trapped once they fail to plan ahead. For large maps they become useless unless you’re fighting mindless zombies.
  5. Slow probably cripples them, trolls can stall or trap them, mages could probably kill them, though I’m sure they’ll be killed by them when they failed. Lancers though? they probably eat them for breakfast...
Basically, they suck at most offensive strategies that involve move speed, and rely mostly on using terrains to do something decent rendered useless, when time of day matters in a fight.

I guess, reducing hit points may work better.

Yomar
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Yomar » November 26th, 2019, 4:32 pm

I know, this threat is a bit old, but nothing happened in meantime ?

Cause I completely agree, Steelclad and Guardsmans (especially levelled versions) are game braking, making survivals a joke.
Steelclad is simply crazy, he deafeats easly Swordsmen and Pikemen (and most other units) for example, cause the 30% def (then at lv 3 it goes up to 40%).
Ok let's see a Red Mage, He needs much more XP and also to advance (and also costs more), if he hits Steelclad with 8 magic attacks in 2 turns the Dwarvish Lord will be still alive (cause the 10% fire resistance), while the Dwarf only needs to hit him 3 or 4 times to kill him (depending on the attack type).

A simple solution would be just to keep the resistances like a lv1 Dwarf.

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Sadaharu
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Sadaharu » November 26th, 2019, 10:11 pm

Perhaps they could be tweaked like Heavy Infantry, to have a weakness against fire or cold attacks. Being protected against both at the same time is a bit weird.

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Krogen
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Krogen » November 28th, 2019, 9:37 pm

Wow... I guess we really just left this thread hanging here.
Apparently, this was not the only place where we discussed the issue.
The reason the conversation ended here is a really simple one: we have won. The developers have been contacted and at this point it's more than likely that the Steelclad line will indeed be nerfed. I'm not sure how, but in my opinion the more important part is that it will be.
We said here everything worth saying, so there was just no reason to go on.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister

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Sadaharu
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Re: The case against the Dwarvish Steelclad/Lord

Post by Sadaharu » November 29th, 2019, 4:36 am

Oh. Well, a link would have been nice.

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