Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Contribute art for mainline Wesnoth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Post Reply
User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1532
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » November 10th, 2019, 5:01 am

The two on the left are the flamethrower units, right? The revision kinda looks a lot more like a torch… though not enough that I can confidently say it is a torch.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

User avatar
doofus-01
Art Contributor
Posts: 3809
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
Location: USA, the civilized part.

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by doofus-01 » November 10th, 2019, 11:37 pm

The_Gnat wrote:
November 9th, 2019, 10:41 pm
However, I think the Strider's new posture might be a bit too dynamic for a standing pose?

Also I have a feeling that the lvl 3 Harrier:

Image

Is now wearing too much armour, considering it is a skirmisher.
Thanks, The_Gnat. You might be right about the strider pose, but it was to show the "skirmisheriness". The Harrier doesn't really have that much armor, I wonder if the big shields are an issue. :hmm: Big shields and pole-arms aren't really what I'd think of as tools for a fast, nimble, and dodging unit, but I'm no expert.
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
November 10th, 2019, 5:01 am
The two on the left are the flamethrower units, right? The revision kinda looks a lot more like a torch… though not enough that I can confidently say it is a torch.
It has to be a downgrade from the other flamethrower sprites, and in a somewhat natural pose.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects

User avatar
Aldarisvet
Translator
Posts: 768
Joined: February 23rd, 2015, 2:39 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Aldarisvet » November 11th, 2019, 7:43 am

They are already in the units database.

http://units.wesnoth.org/1.15/mainline/ ... l#Dunefolk

Often I do like doofus's work, but in this case I would really prefer the previous version of skirmisher line.
They became more squat now and also you cannot even distinguish that they are females.
Two first have fat legs but not third (lvl3).

About Warmaster - I have a feeling that his lower part of a body is somewhat too short.

In general it is too obvious that you see units made in doofus's style (Archaic Era style) that is not quite of Wesnoth style. I would say the same for Apothecary-Luminary, they somehow look too "doofusish".
facebook.com/wesnothian/ - everyday something new about Wesnoth
My campaign:A Whim of Fate, also see Zombies:Introduction single map campaign
Art thread:Mostly frankenstains

User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2390
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by beetlenaut » November 11th, 2019, 11:10 am

The more-dynamic poses are an improvement--especially the warmaster. I'm fine with the strider as well. I like the cloth on the apothecary line better (Is that the doofusish part?), and the lack of a shield makes sense. All in all, these are some good improvements IMO.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

User avatar
doofus-01
Art Contributor
Posts: 3809
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
Location: USA, the civilized part.

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by doofus-01 » November 17th, 2019, 3:39 am

Aldarisvet wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 7:43 am
They are already in the units database.
Vultraz must have thought they were an improvement. I hadn't meant for them to be committed yet, but I didn't make that clear in the PR. There's a new PR for this now: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/4573
Aldarisvet wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 7:43 am
Often I do like doofus's work, but in this case I would really prefer the previous version of skirmisher line.
They became more squat now and also you cannot even distinguish that they are females.
Two first have fat legs but not third (lvl3).
Possibly changing the boots color will help with the "fat legs". As for them being females, it should just be believable that they could be, not glaringly obvious that they are. They are out there to kill an elf or something.
Aldarisvet wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 7:43 am
About Warmaster - I have a feeling that his lower part of a body is somewhat too short.

In general it is too obvious that you see units made in doofus's style (Archaic Era style) that is not quite of Wesnoth style. I would say the same for Apothecary-Luminary, they somehow look too "doofusish".
Warmaster critique I can work with. "doofusish" complaints I cannot. (And thanks, beetlenaut).
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects

User avatar
sergey
Posts: 439
Joined: January 9th, 2015, 9:25 pm

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by sergey » November 17th, 2019, 9:32 am

Cool revision, I like it!
Author of SP scenario Dragon Fight and SP campaign Captured by a Nightmare.
Created The Rise of Wesnoth (alternative mechanics) version of the mainline campaign.

User avatar
Aldarisvet
Translator
Posts: 768
Joined: February 23rd, 2015, 2:39 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Aldarisvet » November 17th, 2019, 11:38 am

doofus-01 wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 3:39 am
"doofusish" complaints I cannot.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

There are a lot of women fighters in dynamic poses in Primaval faction.
So even in this the dynamic pose of Strider reminds me of Archaic era (Swiftfoot for example, https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Archaic_ ... tfoot.html ). When I saw that unit at the first time I thought - what a strange pose for a base sprite, very untypical.

The problem is that for now Stider is the only unit from whole Wesnoth that has a dynamic pose.
That makes her looks quite outstanding, out of system.

As I can feel from my experience, the base sprite of Wesnoth unit must show a unit in a neutral, even relaxing, standing stance.
All dynamics is shown in other animations (attacking animations for example).

Same for Warmaster. The frame could be a good leading animation, but standing in that pose all the time probably woudnt be logical.
These arguments are not quite actual though since there are little chance that Dunefolk are going to be animated soon.
facebook.com/wesnothian/ - everyday something new about Wesnoth
My campaign:A Whim of Fate, also see Zombies:Introduction single map campaign
Art thread:Mostly frankenstains

User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2390
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by beetlenaut » November 17th, 2019, 5:26 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 11:38 am
Stider is the only unit from whole Wesnoth that has a dynamic pose....standing in that pose all the time probably woudnt be logical.
dynamic units.png
dynamic units.png (12.39 KiB) Viewed 292 times
There aren't a lot of units in more dynamic or illogical poses, but they do exist.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

User avatar
doofus-01
Art Contributor
Posts: 3809
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
Location: USA, the civilized part.

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by doofus-01 » November 17th, 2019, 6:25 pm

Thanks all.

I was looking at the dunefolk naga to make it look less similar to the northerner's one, and notice that the bow seems like an excuse to use the naga archer portrait. The bow matters to the level one, but then both advancement branches move away from it. I guess the level one sprite could have a bow or not, but maybe better if it doesn't, if the melee blade is really what the unit line ends up emphasizing.
In any case, these are four (not totally finished) possibilities
nagathings.png
nagathings.png (13.85 KiB) Viewed 280 times
-------------------------------------------
Aldarisvet wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 11:38 am
As I can feel from my experience, the base sprite of Wesnoth unit must show a unit in a neutral, even relaxing, standing stance.
All dynamics is shown in other animations (attacking animations for example).
Many of them now have standing animations, they are huffing & puffing or bobbing & swinging, certainly not relaxing. :lol:
Aldarisvet wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 11:38 am
These arguments are not quite actual though since there are little chance that Dunefolk are going to be animated soon.
Cheer up! Getting base sprite revisions out of the way is the first step.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects

User avatar
The_Gnat
Posts: 2074
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by The_Gnat » November 17th, 2019, 10:06 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 7:43 am
I would say the same for Apothecary-Luminary, they somehow look too "doofusish".
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ... Apologies, you make a good point but that is just too funny. It is definitely a shift in style but that is a positive for me. Also I was under the impression that this was the direction that the wesnoth art is transitioning.

@dev's - any comments? ^

Also I will note that defining feature of doofus-01's work for me is the shading which IMO is expertly done and looks considerably better than the traditional wesnoth style. That, of course, is just my opinion. :)
doofus-01 wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 6:25 pm
The bow matters to the level one, but then both advancement branches move away from it. I guess the level one sprite could have a bow or not, but maybe better if it doesn't, if the melee blade is really what the unit line ends up emphasizing.
In any case, these are four (not totally finished) possibilities
I really like the new naga, but think it would be good to keep some TC. Also I wonder how the blade twists in sprite 2B?
doofus-01 wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 6:25 pm
Cheer up! Getting base sprite revisions out of the way is the first step.
:) I am very excited. And yes good point, the standing pose is not too much of an issue either way. I do wonder though if it is possible to make the Stride line more female looking?

User avatar
doofus-01
Art Contributor
Posts: 3809
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
Location: USA, the civilized part.

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by doofus-01 » November 18th, 2019, 4:37 am

The_Gnat wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 10:06 pm
I really like the new naga, but think it would be good to keep some TC. Also I wonder how the blade twists in sprite 2B?
TC is best added at the end, I think, since it is a kind of distracting & ridiculous selection of colors. In the end, I agree it should be there, even if you have to figure out how to put it in wose leaves or wolf fur. As for the blade, it is a serpentine dagger, inspired by a kris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris), or at least my attempt at depicting that.
Aldarisvet wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 7:43 am
[...] and also you cannot even distinguish that they are females.
The_Gnat wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 10:06 pm
I do wonder though if it is possible to make the Stride line more female looking?
Allrightalrightalrightalright, I tried to make them more feminine, without using sprite boobs though I did resort to big hair a tiny bit.
ImageImageImage
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects

User avatar
Aldarisvet
Translator
Posts: 768
Joined: February 23rd, 2015, 2:39 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Aldarisvet » November 18th, 2019, 8:57 am

Wow, these females are really cool!
They look of the same style now (including leg problems I mentioned). Also lvl3 unit looks really dangerous now which is good to fit the name better.

Concerning nagas, I find that all new images are great too. What I do like the most is that in bow-equipped variations the bow is attached in the correct and distinguishable way. The way Slasher wields it now (the very first image on the left) would make impossible to use it quickly for the fight.

I would prefer to see the bow in the base image because this is what differs southern naga from it's northern counterpart (also the description of the unit is accented on the archery and the portrait displays a naga with a bow but this can be changed with time).
facebook.com/wesnothian/ - everyday something new about Wesnoth
My campaign:A Whim of Fate, also see Zombies:Introduction single map campaign
Art thread:Mostly frankenstains

User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1532
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » November 19th, 2019, 4:08 am

doofus-01 wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 3:39 am
As for them being females, it should just be believable that they could be, not glaringly obvious that they are.
Agree 1000%.
doofus-01 wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 4:37 am
The_Gnat wrote:
November 17th, 2019, 10:06 pm
I do wonder though if it is possible to make the Stride line more female looking?
Allrightalrightalrightalright, I tried to make them more feminine, without using sprite boobs though I did resort to big hair a tiny bit.
ImageImageImage
I quite like these sprites actually.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

Post Reply