An original ww2 addon idea

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Sagez
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An original ww2 addon idea

Post by Sagez » August 12th, 2018, 4:22 pm

Setting: a ww2 eastern front cliche.
Factions: two factions - Germans/known also temporarily as ,,Nazis'' and Russians/ known also temporarily as ,,Soviets''.
Mechanics: innovative as hell! Including a weather system.
General overview: awesome addon, would play for hours!
Creators: none as I can't draw and I'm not a pr0grammer. It's classic ''you make me my addon'' post. Just kidding, okay?

That's where you can help me, let's discuss this little idea of mine...


Rule no#1: Not too many units. Standard faction rooster would include 2 types of infantry, a sharpshooter, two or three tanks, two or three artillery, two or three types of planes. 12 units max. It's still a lot, I know...

Rule#2: units level up FAST. On standard settings a unit will need like 10 points of experience to gain level. Always 10 points. So it will be possible to have a overpowered unit by the end of the game, even in multiplayer against a human opponent. It's where the fun comes in!

Rule no#3: units DO NOT regain health after leveling up. You have to withdraw them to villages and SLOWLY heal them. Now that hurts, huh?

Rule#4: you can't recruit every unit at the start of the game. A unit is unlocked on certain turn. If you play as Germans, you can't recruit a King Tiger right away, it will be available in turn 15. It will lead to interesting dilemmas, whether to buy worse and cheaper units or to just wait for the late and more powerful toys.

Rule#5 Weather. Weather will change the terrain on the map, simulating the changing seasons. Rain and snow can halt an entire offensive. You have several planes? My bad, if there is storm they won't fly at all or they can even crash!

Rule#6: No easy victory. If one player will gain a huge advantage against the other, the ''beaten'' player will get free/no upkeep reinforcements at his disposal. Are you really sure you can win the game early?

Rule#7 No spam. Recruitment will be blocked if the player has too many units of one type.

Rule#8 Units will be kinda expensive to prevent too many units on a battlefield. Let's keep it that way as wesnoth isn't fun with too many units.

Rule#9: Units will have AMLAs. Every type of unit will have different bonuses to choose from. Your infantry has gained a level. Good. You can: add some manpower (+20 hp), resupply them with better guns (bonus to attack), provide a better transport (+1 movement) or give them new camo uniforms (ambush in woods/snow ability). Etc, etc. There will be a lot of bonuses to choose from!

Unit roles:

Infantry (size of battalion probably) - they are the most important part of player's army. Fresh infantry unit has like 100 hp, 6 movement points and is affected by the ''SWARM'' ability. So a 50/100 health infantry will deal half it's normal damage thus being ineffective. You gotta withdraw A LOT. Reinforcing will be a key to victory. Withdrawing and reinforcing is A MUST. A veteran infantry unit is able to beat everything - other infantry, tanks (if you equip them with anti-tank weapons), snipers (just shoot those bushes!), aircraft (if you equip them with AA weapons). But to have a powerful infantry you have to let them gain several levels.

If infantry will lose 70% of their health they will gain additional movement points, allowing them to escape more quickly. If they are blocked or attacked - they die. Some units will be inflicting fear/shock/desertion on others.

Sharpshooter/Sniper
- they are fast (7 movement points) and can use camouflage to shoot from afar and weaken large infantry units. They have like 15 hp, so they are extremely fragile, but they are all about ambushes and hit&run tactics. Skilled in guerilla warfare, they are to harrass the enemy, not to decimate entire divisions and win war by themselves. An inexperienced sniper can inflict like 15-1 damage and slowdown an entire unit, making it vulnerable. Killing snipers in open fields is very easy! Even the best sniper can't kill 300, 500 or 1000 men coming at him.

Tanks - They support the infantry and battle other tanks. Make no mistake. A one tank shouldn't be able to kill hundreds of soldiers, but it can help your soldiers in killing the enemy soldiers. Yeah, tank won't win in a 1 vs 1 fight with full health infantry. Disappointed? Tanks are fast (8-9 movement points) so they can grab villages, flank and pursue a weakened enemy. Standard tank will have like 30, 40 or 50 hp. Just like in panzer general, if a tank kills a unit, it can move again and attack again, so veteran/lucky tanks will be able to kill even several units in one turn, finishing the already beaten enemy units.

Artillery - slow (4-5 movement points), excellent at defending, good in weakening infantry and very good at destroying tanks. Majority of artillery has ,,no counter'' attack so as long as they shoot first they'll be fine. They are here to help your infantry. I've read somewhere that artillery made as much as 40% kills during ww2, but we won't make it that powerful.

Planes - They just fly (10 and more movement points) and shoot things. They can spot. They are fast&vulnerable. They can only be taken down by other planes and AA artillery. Planes deal little to moderate damage to large infantry units and moderate to high damage to tanks. Planes, unsurprisingly, can shot down other planes. Planes can't capture villages. They can't fly if the weather is bad (rain, storm, snow). Planes are somewhat hard to balance and should play a little role. The player should refuel them every several turns or the planes will just crash if they won't refuel on time. Yeah, that's tough!

Gameplay: use everything you have at your disposal to destroy your enemy. Why is everyone apparently living in wooden huts that we steal money from and why is my HQ looking like a fantasy castle!?

A mystery yet to solve.

How do you like this idea? Any comments?
Eastern Europe at War Co-Creator viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34418
"Neptune has finally wed Venus - even Gods can't screw around forever." L-F Céline

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Elder2
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Re: An original ww2 addon idea

Post by Elder2 » August 13th, 2018, 11:18 am

Interesting, but maybe you should take a look at Battleground Europe addon.

enclave
Posts: 842
Joined: December 15th, 2007, 8:52 am

Re: An original ww2 addon idea

Post by enclave » August 13th, 2018, 10:01 pm

good idea, lot of work :)
step 0) idea of mechanics. you have that above. nice job. Tick. Done.
step 1) ok units are easy.. you just steal them from other add-ons, you don't have to draw them. Download all add-ons on 1.14 and 1.12 and 1.10 with words like "ww2" "modern" idk.. think yourself :) If you can't draw, if you can't code, you can start with searching units and copying them to your new addon... look folders with name "images". Ask if you need help.
step 2) find a programmer or learn to program... wesnoth WML programming language is so easy that 7yo kids can do it. I can do all what you want, but unfortunately I won't do it.. for reason (a) I have my own add-ons to do (b) I don't have time for my own add-ons :D at this time of my life.. too much things in real life. BUT. you could ask questions and I might find time to answer them (there are a lot of people apart from me who would be happy to help).. you may look at my add-ons "qciv" or "half civ" if you want to steal any mechanics from there... because something u want might already be inside other add-ons and sometimes it's easier to steal it.
So all you need is effort, you already got a good imagination, 33% job done.. steal units, learn to program :)

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PapaSmurfReloaded
Posts: 574
Joined: November 17th, 2007, 1:10 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: An original ww2 addon idea

Post by PapaSmurfReloaded » August 13th, 2018, 10:56 pm

If you want images of modern warfare units, my Infantry Wars Era does have (mostly taken from Modern Combat, and some made by me).
18th Century Warfare Era, try it out!
A Random RPG Adventure, play it!
Infantry Wars Era, give it a shot!
Zombie Apocalypse RPG, run for your life!

Sagez
Posts: 120
Joined: December 23rd, 2010, 8:19 pm
Location: Poland
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Re: An original ww2 addon idea

Post by Sagez » August 18th, 2018, 6:22 pm

Thank you all for your kind responses, I wasn't expecting anything at all!
I fell that I haven't transposed my vision clearly enough.

All ww2 addons made for wesnoth were doomed to fail. Stop, wait, no, there was one - Ruglud's early ww2 mod. Ruglud is a cool guy from Germany and I'm afraid he isn't there anymore but we even shared PMs. Check his era out. It was good and he put a lot of effort into it, of course he didn't receive enough recognition that he deserved for it, a shame.

But to the point. All other ww2 addons (Ruglud is awesome let me say that again) were doomed to fail because they were often huge and complicated. Lot's of units, huge maps, slow gameplay, new mechanics that really work poor in wesnoth (like right clicking and menuses). AI couldn't handle it in most cases. Not everyone has friends that may sacrifice several hours to play some complicated addon. Please tell me, have you seen anyone playing battleground europe or any other ww2 mod? Probably not, it's default all over again. I'm trying to be polite, but making a wesnoth mod with hundreds of units present on map at the same time is just... a waste.

So thanks Elder (not from Zion anymore?) but i'm all against that flawed design.

@enclave - good points. You see, I had a programmer long time ago, we started developing this ww2 mod but he simply left one day. Another one rejected my proposition, so it will wait.

@PapaSmurfReloaded - thank you. I may steal, no, take some inspiration from you one day.

tl;dr - history of wesnoth ww2 addons proves I'm right. They are too big, too slow and complicated. I'm right because I'm very good at unit and faction design, check EEaW out! Heh.
Eastern Europe at War Co-Creator viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34418
"Neptune has finally wed Venus - even Gods can't screw around forever." L-F Céline

Shiki
Developer
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Re: An original ww2 addon idea

Post by Shiki » August 18th, 2018, 8:05 pm

@enclave - good points. You see, I had a programmer long time ago, we started developing this ww2 mod but he simply left one day. Another one rejected my proposition, so it will wait.
Programming in WML is easy – defining [unit_types] is very easy, basically it's just a long list of setting data. A bit more difficult are [abilities] / [specials], but I'm fairly sure you will get into it, best take a look at some custom abilities in an era.

#2: Give them less experience= in the [unit_type] definition.
#3: While not straightforward, you can use an [event] with name=pre advance, and set a variable with the hitpoints. In an name=post advance event you could set them back. During events, data about the unit is available in the variable $unit, e.g. $unit.hitpoints.
#4: Use an [event] with name=turn 15, and [allow_recruit].
#5: That sounds like overly complex, but not impossible. The day/night rhythm would be sth. similar, maybe use that.
#6: Events, events... You can check at each name=side turn some conditions and change things based on that, e.g. placing units which have upkeep=loyal.
#7: There is a mainline macro for it. It's from core, it can directly be used.
#8: IIRC UtBS has such a mechanics too, I didn't play it yet though.
#9: The Protagonists in UtBS have this.
Maintainer of Era of Myths.
Introduction to WML filtering and WML variables.

enclave
Posts: 842
Joined: December 15th, 2007, 8:52 am

Re: An original ww2 addon idea

Post by enclave » August 20th, 2018, 6:06 am

basically it's really easy if you start from simple things .. so it will be easier to go into complicated things later.. and we all here to help. (post above may look complicated and scary, until you actually try it) All you need is not be lazy :D

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