The Ravagers - SP campaign for Wesnoth 1.16 [Feedback and development]

[Konrad2]

I don't have a copy of Wesnoth around for now, so I can only check later. But it's gonna be solved anyway, they really shouldn't compete, the correct way is indeed to cancel them out.

I can confirm the bleed stopping after some time. But I have no idea why it happened.

Now that last screenshot, hmm... what? Did this happen once, or is it a constant issue?

It happened only once (so far), but I blame that one on wesnoth. I had this happen to me with Legend of Wesmere as well (once), but I have no idea how to reproduce it.

[WackoJacko]

38,15 is unwalkable
What's the point of the Death Marshal at 42,9 ? It can't be attacked and there is no dialogue triggered Wait, it's petrified, why is it petrified?
Also, no early finish bonus? I finished on turn 35/82, am I just meant to end my turn 40-odd times to get that gold?

If I recall correctly, it's just a statue. Are you sure there wasn't early finish bonus? (there should be). Reminder: if nothing is stated in the scenario objectives, it means Wesnoth's default 80% But I'll add the 80% info to the objectives sometime in the future then.

It explicitly states that there is no early finish bonus

[Konrad2]

Upgrading early finish bonus in TID 1
The upgrades say that they increase the early finish bonus to 5/10/15%. But you start with 5% and buying the upgrades results in having 10/15/20% early finish bonus.

[WhiteWolf]

I can confirm the bleed stopping after some time. But I have no idea why it happened.

Maybe the unit was healed by something? But I'll check it out then. (on the weekend, hopefully I'll have the time to do all the collected stuff)

It happened only once (so far), but I blame that one on wesnoth. I had this happen to me with Legend of Wesmere as well (once), but I have no idea how to reproduce it.

Ah, I see. Has there been a bug-report towards Wesnoth yet?

Upgrading early finish bonus in TID 1
The upgrades say that they increase the early finish bonus to 5/10/15%. But you start with 5% and buying the upgrades results in having 10/15/20% early finish bonus.

I think the description is wrong then, because you should start with a default 5%, but I'll check on it.

It explicitly states that there is no early finish bonus

Hmm, okay, then I don't know why it says that, or what I was thinking. I'll check on it

[Pentarctagon]

It happened only once (so far), but I blame that one on wesnoth. I had this happen to me with Legend of Wesmere as well (once), but I have no idea how to reproduce it.

Ah, I see. Has there been a bug-report towards Wesnoth yet?

Sounds like it might be an instance of this?

[Konrad2]

Yes, pretty much.
I reported it here, but that time I forgot to make any screenshots, so the report was probably not really helpful. And there is also the problem that I have no idea how to reproduce it.

[WackoJacko]

Dialogue S18
If Dayton is the unit that kills the leaders then he has another weird conversation with himself
Needs to have an option in case he is the killer (I think this happened in a previous scenario too)

EDIT: It would be nice if there was a line in the scenario objectives stating if there was an early-finish bonus and how much it would be, so that we can adjust our strategy accordingly (high % = finish quickly, low % = farm XP).

EDIT 2:
"ravagers" needs capitalisation, occurs a few times.
Milla: are gone hunting---> have gone hunting

EDIT 3:
When choosing that bonus unit, you mention the Lich can go to level 4, when it can actually go to level 5

EDIT 4:
Possible extra defeat condition for S19

Spoiler:

Skun reaches the fortress

EDIT 5:
After S19 dialogue

Spoiler:

What does "the ocrs were sent out for ranging" mean? Like, they were sent out to be rangers? or to gauge the range of something

EDIT 6:
A unit is able to pick up more than one pickaxe (also, pickaxe should be one word)

EDIT 7:
S19 item

Spoiler:

Picking up the sceptre of fire is a one off thing, if you say no once then you can't pick it up again. Meaning I can't choose which unit I want to pick it up without reloading and wasting turns to get my preferred unit there

EDIT 8:
I was wondering if, when gaining the "bonus" units, we might be able to see a more in-depth description of the units and their special abilities (if they have them)

EDIT 9:
dialogue post-S21
Gallien: cornered up --> cornered
Lory: greates --> greatest

dialogue pre-S22
Chief Echelon Reed: master ravager --> Master Ravager
Milla: irreal --> unreasonable (pretty sure irreal isn't a "real" word), although in the current tense I'll suggest unreasonably

dialogue S23
Tharos: *stroken*-->*stricken*


EDIT 10:
The Winged Creature is a nice legendary creature however it does seem a little weak when compared to the others (no ranged attack, all negative resistances besides cold). Maybe consider a buff?

EDIT 11:
dialogue pre-S24
Milla: oh you will, infest'! --> not sure what this is meant to be, but as it is, it makes no sense
Totalomir: exception with Beast Princess --> exception with the Beast Princess
Multiple people: ravager -->Ravager

dialogue S24
Totalomir: I'll show you swordfight --> I'll show you how to swordfight
Dayton: How much strength is ye? --> How much strength is in ye? or how much strength is left in ye?

Post S24
Dayton: have not seen --> had not seen

Scene
Dayton: uncomplete --> incomplete
Dayton: emptyness -->emptiness
Dayton: Rumors --> rumours (whilst not technically incorrect, the rest of your dialogue is in British English and this word is American English)
Dayton: Whereabaouts -->whereabouts

S25
Diagnostics --> diagnosis
slopy--> slopey
There's no turn limit however a defeat condition is turns run out
Also, what was the point of that boat? It didn't do anything, and no event was triggered

post S25:
obliged --> consider replacing this verb, seems too demanding when the rest of the dialogue is a request
feel --> felt (talking about a past event, so need to use past tense)

Nice campaign, I enjoyed it thoroughly

[Konrad2]

Replay topics (and my replays) for The Ice Diamond do now exist.

[WhiteWolf]

First let me apologize for answering so late, sorry guys I've got some important stuff going on, and my focus was/is completely on it.
I'll fix the typos and the suggestions as soon as I have free time again

Nice campaign, I enjoyed it thoroughly

I'm glad you liked it overall, thanks for playing

Replay topics (and my replays) for The Ice Diamond do now exist.

So cool, thanks

[shevegen]

First, the idea for this campaign is really good. My favourite campaign is still the other one with the floating carpets, summoning circles etc.., but The Ravagers is now my third favourite campaign (after that other one where e. g. dune folks can ride/buy wyverns and so forth).

There are some unique ideas in it, which I have not seen before, at the least not in this combination.

- The drinking-for-boost and storytelling in a pub is a great idea. It makes for a good storyline too.
- The bleeding is fun. It is a little bit semi-buggy perhaps, or not; for example I think I noticed something
with reloading where bleeding may continue even there is no injury yet, but I did not pursue this really
since it seemed so minor.

If I would do one change, though, it is to not automatically taint every moved tile. It should depend on
how much blood a unit has available; and how much blood is lost too. So e. g. the first two tiles could
be full, and every next tile would have slightly less bleeding. Not sure how simple it is to add this
but if it would be simple to change, I'd add a limitation to the bleeding. Nonetheless I think bleeding
is a nice idea which I have not seen before.

- The minigames are interesting, as an idea. They are a bit distracting, though. Some of them I would
like to end during the bout, so I would add a right-click action or so. Right now I work around this
by just reloading the save game prior to that.

- I like that regular units can advance. This seems somewhat balanced in that it is the same for every
regular unit e. g. +1 more movement or leadership or more damage.

- I'd love a healer-type regular unit early on though. Makes playing much simpler. It can be even
more expensive for me, since I just depend a LOT on healing i general. At a later point we can
have those monks and what not, but early on we sort of miss that, only have a hero or two who
do that.

- The outfit idea is fun. I did not do it because I am not a girl fancying up folks but it was a fun
idea.

- I like the idea of unique weaknesses although the interface is a bit cumbersome. Right now
we have to click on "continue". This may be a general problem with how interfaces work
in wesnoth, the inventory also has a similar problem. May be better to just add a continue
button instead, rather than relying on "ok". This is not unique to the campaign as-is.

- Special weaknesses and strengths are a fun idea too. Not sure if they are all that
useful but no qualms.

- From the heroes I only dislike that small orc guy, since he is so useless compared
to the others, and also fairly weak. Perhaps he could gain a poison attack at a later
level or so, to offset some of him sucking. The others aren't that great either but
not so problematic; I like the mage, and the assassin, but of course the main hero
is by far the best due to this sniping/bleeding. This makes arrows in general very
strong.

- There is one thing that puts me off. If a leader dies, the people at the pub talk about it,
and then say "he can move back in time" ... "by reloading the save game". This breaks
immersion. If they speak in a pub, they should not know the word save game.

My suggestion to change this is to instead change the dialogue a bit, perhaps ...

"Hey wait a moment! You said Fred died in the battle? But how can this be! He is sitting
right here with us at the table!". Then the main actor could again say that his memory
is not what it used to be, and re-tell the real story (and then perhaps add a separate
suggestion or hint box where the player is encouraged to just reload from a save
game and play again).

The advantage of this change would be that you do not have to disrupt the immersion
of storyline telling. There is another campaign that has this problem e. g. the one
where there are lots of demons and beelzebub; this one also breaks immersion but
it is clear that the storyline there is more a fun-take and not so serious, whereas
the storyline in The Ravagers is already on a MUCH higher quality, so I think it
would be best to retain that overall quality (and for that, to be as consistent and
"in-character" as possible).

Don't think this is that important, though - overall I think this is a very, very good
campaign. Really better than almost all the others (excluding the two I mentioned,
with the number one on my list really by far the best campaign that exists; by the
way, you guys are really actually evolving wesnoth here, since your ideas kick-back
to some extent into the main game in one way or another).

[WhiteWolf]

First, the idea for this campaign is really good. My favourite campaign is still the other one with the floating carpets, summoning circles etc.., but The Ravagers is now my third favourite campaign (after that other one where e. g. dune folks can ride/buy wyverns and so forth).

There are some unique ideas in it, which I have not seen before, at the least not in this combination.

Thanks for the compliments I'm glad you liked it.

- The bleeding is fun. It is a little bit semi-buggy perhaps, or not; for example I think I noticed something
with reloading where bleeding may continue even there is no injury yet, but I did not pursue this really
since it seemed so minor.

That shouldn't happen though, I thought I fixed this some time ago Just to be clear - are you talking about the mechanic, where the units lose 4 HP, or the blood trails tainting the tiles?

If I would do one change, though, it is to not automatically taint every moved tile. It should depend on
how much blood a unit has available; and how much blood is lost too. So e. g. the first two tiles could
be full, and every next tile would have slightly less bleeding. Not sure how simple it is to add this
but if it would be simple to change, I'd add a limitation to the bleeding. Nonetheless I think bleeding
is a nice idea which I have not seen before.

The real limitation here are the images I have to put on the map. If I had a collection that had distinctly varying amount of blood, then yes, this could be implemented.

- The minigames are interesting, as an idea. They are a bit distracting, though. Some of them I would
like to end during the bout, so I would add a right-click action or so. Right now I work around this
by just reloading the save game prior to that.

Exactly, and even if there was a right-click termination option, I'd still recommend reloading the Inn save over it Simply because it is a lot less bug-prone, as a lot of things would need to be reloaded and recalculated in terms of what units go to which lists, which gold is given to your side, etc. This is not only sidequest-dependent, but may also be map-dependent, and it would be a lot of work to implement this right and bug-free. Also, if such a termination action existed, it would immediately call for a "continue" option, which I really don't want because that would really overcomplicate things. So why would you use the terminate option, which would lock the sidequest down as "failed", instead of reloading the Inn save, doing something else, but not ridding yourself of the option to pick up the sidequest again, if you wish to.
So this is absolutely not a priority right now.

- I'd love a healer-type regular unit early on though. Makes playing much simpler. It can be even
more expensive for me, since I just depend a LOT on healing i general. At a later point we can
have those monks and what not, but early on we sort of miss that, only have a hero or two who
do that.

Hmm, however, story-wise I can't add Monks or Elvish Shamans earlier. But maybe a field-medic Ravager unit is OK, however it needs to be distinct somehow, so as not to make the Monk obsolete.

- The outfit idea is fun. I did not do it because I am not a girl fancying up folks but it was a fun
idea.

It's a feature in most RPG's, why not here

- I like the idea of unique weaknesses although the interface is a bit cumbersome. Right now
we have to click on "continue". This may be a general problem with how interfaces work
in wesnoth, the inventory also has a similar problem. May be better to just add a continue
button instead, rather than relying on "ok". This is not unique to the campaign as-is.

I'm not sure I understand the suggestion, what is the difference between adding a continue button, and relying on OK?

- From the heroes I only dislike that small orc guy, since he is so useless compared
to the others, and also fairly weak. Perhaps he could gain a poison attack at a later
level or so, to offset some of him sucking. The others aren't that great either but
not so problematic; I like the mage, and the assassin, but of course the main hero
is by far the best due to this sniping/bleeding. This makes arrows in general very
strong.

I'm not sure which version you started on, but since freshly started 1.3.3 or later games, there is an advancement for Milla to train the orc guy to have a bow and become a skirmisher, that can make him quite useful in the end.

- There is one thing that puts me off. If a leader dies, the people at the pub talk about it,
and then say "he can move back in time" ... "by reloading the save game". This breaks
immersion. If they speak in a pub, they should not know the word save game.

It's my intention to break immersion there, it's part of the joke, and a small wink from my own part as to how Wesnoth's save-scamming system is a little silly at times No offense meant to anyone of course, it's just a joke So I don't really plan on changing this, sorry

[mateus_70]

Very enjoyable campaign! just a little thing, "Skeleton Ghost" unit description notes says about drains and arcane, but that unit doesn't have that things.

[WhiteWolf]

Very enjoyable campaign! just a little thing, "Skeleton Ghost" unit description notes says about drains and arcane, but that unit doesn't have that things.

Thanks And it also seems to be missing its image, though I am not even sure if this unit appears in the game at all. Anyway, it'll be fixed in the next version.

[gulash007]

Hello,
I'd start off by saying that this is by far my favorite campaign. Really like the storytelling structure.
There's one thing I'd like to ask about. I've just finished the Face of the Enemy scenario so I'm exploring the inn for the second time, but since I spent all my gold (even the gold I gained from unfinished quests) for the Dwarvish Mines scenario, I'm facing a problem that's preventing me from going on. I have no way to make more gold since I can't bet. Starting from zero, is there a way to gain gold for the inn or am I stuck pennyless till the end?


As for some bugs:

The trainkill mechanics for some reason messes up the damage ratings of my units, for example when Dothar lvl 3 Guardian attacks someone with war hammer with trainkill active, his shield damage changes to that of the hammer. Or when Dayton lvl 3 Heavy Longbowman uses a ranged attack with trainkill active, his bow damage drops to 0.

[WhiteWolf]

Hello,

There's one thing I'd like to ask about. I've just finished the Face of the Enemy scenario so I'm exploring the inn for the second time, but since I spent all my gold (even the gold I gained from unfinished quests) for the Dwarvish Mines scenario, I'm facing a problem that's preventing me from going on. I have no way to make more gold since I can't bet. Starting from zero, is there a way to gain gold for the inn or am I stuck pennyless till the end?

Have you started any sidequests (gold circles at Hufin, Lory and since 1.3 the dwarves)? All of those will give you some gold and potentially some bonus gold on top of the basic amount as well. But yes, if you spend all of your gold and thus drop out of betting, and have completed all the sidequests, then yes, that is the maximum limit the game allows.

The trainkill mechanics for some reason messes up the damage ratings of my units, for example when Dothar lvl 3 Guardian attacks someone with war hammer with trainkill active, his shield damage changes to that of the hammer. Or when Dayton lvl 3 Heavy Longbowman uses a ranged attack with trainkill active, his bow damage drops to 0.

I indeed managed to reproduce it with Dothar, but I can't reproduce it with Dayton. Could you please attach a replay of a scenario where this happened?
It's a bit troubling that this happens as I thought I already fixed it long ago. Apparently not then