Rashy Era

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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Vyncyn wrote: May 28th, 2023, 5:58 am Dardo defenitely has a problem against UD

Archer do most of the works, but then you have to decide between unpoison or fire damage.
Mercenaries are ok at level 1 and good at level 2.
Legions shield attack helps a litte, but they are still outmatched damage wise
Slingers are decent vs skeletons, but die to quickly.
Horsemen can deal with Adepts, but are bad against the skeletons.
Scouts are only good for village grabbing, while Chariots are useless.
Got mixed feelings about Galleys. Impact range is good, but fire damage of Skeleton Archers still hurts and junkers&horses can also deal good damage against them

I want to avoid arcane damage for the faction. More fire or impact would be an option, or a better healer (though as non-magicians I would like to keep them at heals +4, maybe with unpoison)
So we can of try few things, but yeah, I was aware of dardo's lots of problems because it was among faction I've buffed the most (necromancers, forestfolk, mountaintribe and dark elves and aquana being other cases).

All dardo legion and advancement +1 impact melee damages. Not sure if any HP buff as they got +10% res on impact.

Galley catapult damage +1 in lv1.

Equestrian XP to 36 (-2). Weakest of all Rashy Era scout in lv1 (same tier than Trarashy Scouts... but cheaper)

Chariot very weak fire ranged as bonus (7-2?) and 10-2 for lv2 (still they will suck againist Bone Construct because of -20% pierce res) ... chariot quite bulky, don't think giving them cold ressist might be a good idea. Idea is that players combine them with dardo archers for different ressults to not be a complete waste of money in no matchup (slightly useful in all cases).

Rest , I will leave it to your ideas.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Done.
Also raised attacks of dardo slinger to 2-3 (form 2-2). Since they can get the weak trait, this hardly matters though.
Preatorian&Justicar got their shield bash
I'm still thinking about what else would benefit them vs UD without breaking the balance to other factions.

Luz have been underperforming a bit. At least Trarashy could deal with them easily. I gave a -2exp buff to the milita

Changed logic of some status abilites (injure,frostbite...) They can now be healed with simple healing instead of curing ability
I also added animation and made it that only an active regenerate would work (Which also means Skeletons won't immediatly lose their injury, except at night)
Ghosts and Dwarven spirits are now immune to injury and corrode.

Edit:
Retested Dardo vs UD. This time dardo was quite dominating :shock:
Really depend on the recruits. Necromancers need a good mix of ghouls to force Dardo to abandon fire archers and ghosts are practically useless.
Next update I'll remove fire attack from chariots again. It's not a big loss if one unit has a bad matchup.
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Re: Rashy Era

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Vyncyn wrote: May 28th, 2023, 9:20 am Done.
Also raised attacks of dardo slinger to 2-3 (form 2-2). Since they can get the weak trait, this hardly matters though.
Preatorian&Justicar got their shield bash
I'm still thinking about what else would benefit them vs UD without breaking the balance to other factions.

Luz have been underperforming a bit. At least Trarashy could deal with them easily. I gave a -2exp buff to the milita

Changed logic of some status abilites (injure,frostbite...) They can now be healed with simple healing instead of curing ability
I also added animation and made it that only an active regenerate would work (Which also means Skeletons won't immediatly lose their injury, except at night)
Ghosts and Dwarven spirits are now immune to injury and corrode.

Edit:
Retested Dardo vs UD. This time dardo was quite dominating :shock:
Really depend on the recruits. Necromancers need a good mix of ghouls to force Dardo to abandon fire archers and ghosts are practically useless.
Next update I'll remove fire attack from chariots again. It's not a big loss if one unit has a bad matchup.
Well ghosts are quite useless againist loyalist too because of mass 20% ressistance units and mages ruining them.

Problem of UD is that there is not any mid point okay or underpowered XDDD , I'm thinking about boneconstruct having higher 16g because rashy era has plenty of horses/calvaries which means they will do better againist more units than defaultish skeleton in default. It's rare an scout that is not weak to pierce and usually is garantee that opponent will recruit about 2 or 3 of them in each game to hold more correctly their villages.

Will have to also check how injury being healed by healers without cures can change unit already having this special, but in case your test shows that basically cripple will not do much than 1 turn debuff then I think correct solution is decreasing just a bit (-1/7 or -1/6) required XP for lv3 or maybe just few more HP's in compensation.

But yeah, the main reason why I said you to run these very specific tests is to show by yourself that lots of the changes that I've suggested even weren't enough to balance correctly the era but that they did help A LOT ... but succesfully fixed deficiencies in factions, only thing is that they require more polishing and testing.

Still the only faction that I'm not sure how is actually doing is Marashy, they were really low in stats and traits distribution were not helping much, but the cold magical on range, and quite lots of other things might help them a lot to not be underpowered (even rashy ships got fire arrows for certain naval advantage? ... because of being the weakest ship if not counting naval fights).

But actually my main worries are at Dardo, Marashy and Forestfolk, as Aquana was really well tended between our changes.

Luz are viable, but yeah, Militia been quite terrible unit for 12g , I've buffed them significantly (and their lv2) because of how poor ressults were obtaining Ageless players who were trying pre-buffed militias having significantly much worser ressults than who goes inquisitors. Luz also have really nice calvary (among best, only problem is that they're as much weak to pierce and costing more... but elsewhere high quality mounts) , Luz witch-hunter to crush ships and bones and fight back stonegolems. Maybe ... Lv1 luz clerics could get few more HP as some other mages (aquana, wanderingmages) did receive. But in AE ecosystem Luz is actually at S tier, even higher than loy because how powerful Luz Inquisitors were for too few XP's.

Only problem is that my criteria might have some deficiencies at calculus at early game (pvp in lv1) , but NOT as much as they used to be originally. But even, you sensed underperforming issues in factions I buffed a lot :lol:

Edit: some blur special units having too low strikes / high chances of miss (of 0 succesful strikes) combined of low damage, maybe +5% accuracy in these specific cases? As well for Amazon Witch / Elder Witches arcane drain attack because of having -1 strike that means she will not debuffing more often.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Blur might generally be too weak. Slow reduces movement and damage by 50%, while blur only does 10% accuracy loss.
Like against a unit with 70% defense, the expected damage only goes down 1/3, and that's the best case scenario. agaunst 30% defense it would only be 1/7 difference.
I don't want it to be OP, but I think it needs to be increased to 15% or 20% for it to have any use.
Or it should use multiplicate, to be more consistend against different defenses.
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Re: Rashy Era

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Vyncyn wrote: May 28th, 2023, 7:25 pm Blur might generally be too weak. Slow reduces movement and damage by 50%, while blur only does 10% accuracy loss.
Like against a unit with 70% defense, the expected damage only goes down 1/3, and that's the best case scenario. agaunst 30% defense it would only be 1/7 difference.
I don't want it to be OP, but I think it needs to be increased to 15% or 20% for it to have any use.
Or it should use multiplicate, to be more consistend against different defenses.
I'm fine with trying a -15% accuracy value, also some exceptions could use greater value. But exactly, the idea I originally had on blur was adding it as a special to very weak units without the need of changing their attacks into some weaker, that's why blur feels that weak, forces an unit to deal less damage and blur itself is not that strong to justificate the loss of damage in many cases.

Blur will also not work againist magical (as far I know), still EoMa has +magic-counter which can decrease magic hit chance from 70% to 50% , or Ageless / Archaic / South-Seas / Seahag has the capacity to decrease 70% from magical to only 20% (that's too overpowered... it will even get worsened to -35% value (half) instead of massive -50% reduction).

Still , using blur to neutralize some kind of charger to make it much less deadly will quite help a bit in many cases, or when fightinig againist big mobs. Only problem is that many of the factions with blur does not have slows, but somehow they need something to.

-20% is extreme, but I think adjusted to -15% could be tried (60% defense -15% hit chance is only 25% chances of being hit) , and flat hit chance is decreased to only 45% , which is almost as much as something in castle and in this case almost is 1/4 of damage reduction in base of accuracy (seems fine if we think that this way)... but the higher the unit defense is, the higher is the reduction damage. Blur Attacks also are more consistent in not missing and being low in damage (similar of slows) but much rarer to miss all strikes, still I think that's wrong that blur be much weaker than attacks featuring +slows special in terms of damage. The other possitive stuff of blur is that they gain no retaliations, but that bonus is quite small compared to what slow procs.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Uploaded.
Fixed a lua error with the undead regeneration.
blur ->15%, also affects magic now (didn't realise it would behave differently depending on add/sub key)
Chariots without fire arrows

Did some (but no extensive) tests.
Marashy seem more on the strong side. At least against Trarashy.
Dardo vs undead looks pretty good in my opinion. Maybe I should take a look at larger maps too, but I think that would be even harder to balance with Dardo's 3 rider options.
Forestfolk aren't too bad either. Haven't played them much though.
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Re: Rashy Era

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Vyncyn wrote: May 29th, 2023, 6:57 am Did some (but no extensive) tests.
Marashy seem more on the strong side. At least against Trarashy.
Dardo vs undead looks pretty good in my opinion. Maybe I should take a look at larger maps too, but I think that would be even harder to balance with Dardo's 3 rider options.
Forestfolk aren't too bad either. Haven't played them much though.
Quite obvious, Trarashy depends too much in their mages (for a reason I decreased -1g in both mages recently) to be a viable faction that don't underperforms, but Marashy is naturally more ressistant to magic (10% on cold/fire/arcane). So defenetively Marashy is actually countering Trarashy. Different topic would be if trarashy had a physical mage, that would make that -10% damage to +10% damage (22% damage of difference, that's close to +25% ToD bonus, which is a lot). Marashy on the other hand , their 5-3 mages are impact damage type, which can be increased to 6-3 that ends in 7-3 againist trarashy ... at costing less but having better melee and also more valuable stats as 50% flat defense.

So yeah, Marashy particularly counters Trarashy. They should do much more normal againist other factions (unless in case if I've commited some excesses at buffing them). Also point is that Marashy did originally not have healers and Trarashy in mid game has earlier access to healer, also having Healer B option in lv3 Gaya that appart of costing a tons of XP , basically has no damage handicaps for an healer (and also, is physical mage).

Still , in lv2 matchup , there is a 180 grade rotation, Trarashy having 50% marksman (even in defense) in ranged helps a bit and also valuable Rashy Astronomer that is massive 12-3 againist Marashy (13-3 with trait lol). In resume, that's a lv1 matchup issue in that very specific interaction.

Without trying changes, I guess that Marashy should do slightly better, only great thing of Trarashy vs Marashy matchup is that their fighters are whole 7-4 blade melee (except in night), still I think that might be important the matchup Trarashy vs Marashy because they're particularly rivals so there must be some relevant change in lv1 matchup and not ruining the factions againist the rest of the era (-10% physical ressists for basically same defenses in most places is really a disadventage, reason I filled Marashy out of too many buffs , as well of Trarashy XDDD)

Edit: Trarashy lv2 longbowman feels quite weak, suggestion for 9-4 in lv2? still default elvish marskman can get to 10-4 if dexterous trait at lv2 , other option is giving few more HP's as physical ressists are -10% ... and not 70% def on forest like elvish marsman
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Update
Added dwarvish Runeknight as Fighter advancement. Removed the Smith form miner advancement
Runeknight is 15-2 (magical) melee. Not sure how balanced that is, I think 13 or 14 damage might be better next time, but I haven't gotten to testing yet. Also more magical resistance, but less physical that the steelclad (at least until the AMLA)

And since I had to split Fighter from mainline, I could implement the price increase for the lord. Dwarvish sentinels will be next.
IPS wrote: April 24th, 2023, 8:33 pmDwarvish Lord price to 65g (+15g) , or atleast increase to higher than 60g's.
- Guardsman XP from 47 to 35 , ranged damage increase to 6-1
- Stalwart HP to 59 (+4) , ranged damage increase to 9-1 , XP from 85 to 78
- Sentinel price to 55g (+11g)
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Re: Rashy Era

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Vyncyn wrote: May 29th, 2023, 8:37 pm Update
Added dwarvish Runeknight as Fighter advancement. Removed the Smith form miner advancement
Runeknight is 15-2 (magical) melee. Not sure how balanced that is, I think 13 or 14 damage might be better next time, but I haven't gotten to testing yet. Also more magical resistance, but less physical that the steelclad (at least until the AMLA)

And since I had to split Fighter from mainline, I could implement the price increase for the lord. Dwarvish sentinels will be next.
IPS wrote: April 24th, 2023, 8:33 pmDwarvish Lord price to 65g (+15g) , or atleast increase to higher than 60g's.
- Guardsman XP from 47 to 35 , ranged damage increase to 6-1
- Stalwart HP to 59 (+4) , ranged damage increase to 9-1 , XP from 85 to 78
- Sentinel price to 55g (+11g)
Let's see... this version is much weaker than defaul/core runesmith because first, this can promote up to lv4 , second , it has 40% blade and 30% pierce/impact ressist which are much greater than Runeknight ressistances. Still 15-2 is quite high and powerful considering impact magic melee, so I think that on this situation 14-2 is more fair value. And also an HP of like 50 would fit more correct or instead a very weak lightning attack of 7-1 fire (not necessairly has to be magical because that in modded games and in RPG would make him beast unit).

In default they're going to raise the steelclad's XP to 88 because to be sincere, it's the strongest unit in all lv2 default , and some players can of win with just steelclad spam in tons of scenarios, changes from which I do agree at increasing Steelclad XP to lv3 to force people to use other knalgan units. Which for example, are compensated by guardian XP reductions and few stats increase in lv2 (since ... I never liked this unit... always felt underpowered if not in lv3).

War Engineer price to 45g (+2g)? lv2 melee damage with also lv2 ranged damage. Runemage lv2 price to 37g (-3g)

I've wondered always if forest dwarves would do bad againist undead. Gnomes very low in HP and one turn of poison takes aways like 1/3 of their max HP ... giants not being that good if not in 50/60% defense, elsewhere they will take more damage specially from impact damage dealers. Gryphons being particularly low in HP for increased 8-3 damage seem not be a good matchup againist rashy era horses and undead horses at all. So I think that +1 melee damage at both lv1 ranged gnomes could come handy. Not sure but 21 HP for gnome mage could fit more correct. Forest Lumberjack HP to 38 (same as dwarvish fighter, but with changes of slow trait for some more HPs). Pocket sand on lv1 too few strikes (0-2) , I think readjusted to 0-3 would be better.

If doing a test with UD vs Forest Dwarves and you sense they are doing quite bad, I think that bardic song damage could be increased to 7-2. This changes drastically the non dexterous ones damage from 8-2 to 10-2 to skeletons. In other case, undead horse arcane weakness could be increased to -30% (only lv1?) , they're really tanky even to arcane damage type because of massive 40 HP. But changes in this row are just in case you think necromancers is bit too strong and if forest dwarves not doing so well againist them.

Been thinking, rock golem having -40% arcane ressistance is maybe too much, maybe could be tried -30% same value as woses (as default woses have 52 HP). Stone Golem impact damage increase to 18-2. Any toughts about rock golems having 1 MP cost at sand? they're big and sand being soft.

Edit: 7-1 but +first-strike for small lightning in runeknight, that can cause some damages at long range, considering that lv3 steeclalad has 10-1 blade hatchets makes sense.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Update

Only decreased guardsman exp from 47 to 38 (instead of 35). I think with a healer in the faction and the general horse-heavy era they do quite well.
Runeknight without firststrike for now.
Any toughts about rock golems having 1 MP cost at sand? they're big and sand being soft.
Not a fan. Sand & snow should be rough terrain and sand getting between its joints would defenitely slow it down.

Tested UD vs Gnomes. It's pretty balanced actually, though I could try some different tactics.
Gnomes got 2 arcane mages, 2 melee impact and one ranged impact. Ghouls are the biggest issue here with low HP gnomes and lack of cure. (Also Adept is a problem if you spam to many gnomes.)
For now the only change i did was set mage to 21HP and the 0-3 sand
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Re: Rashy Era

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Yo, haven't got that many ideas to post at here because been busy in other things that you will soon will realize. But changing of topic.

I've heard that Dardo Slinger can get negative traits (such as weak), so I think that changing his melee from 2-3 to 3-2 could be a better idea, because the damage loss from 2-3 to 1-3 is extremely high , while not that much from 3-2 to 2-2.

Other thing I realized is the massive XP that deadwood requires to lv2 ... default and woses requires 40 XP , while deadwood requires massive 49 XP. Might be a good idea to lower it to 42 or 43.

Bone Mess got some small nerf from the undead regeneration, while it losses it's constat regen+4 from level 2, bymaking it only available just in night. In case of not getting readjusted to regenerates+4 it would require a compensation somewhere else.

Regis Earl bit too much XP, lower it to 84 (-4)

Wandering Mage XP to 47 (-2)

Mountain Wise XP to 85 (-5)

Any opinions about giving +freeze to hare rider and hare master?

Shadow Warrior is forced to promote to leadership. Any opinions what about implementing an option B with more damages and HP but no leadership? Only problem is that default Elvish Champion in 1.18 will be 10-5 blade melee (+1 dmg) combined of 9-3 pierce ranged.

Dardo Equestrian got an idea for it, some kind of special that in offensive increases this unit's blade/impact ressistance by 10% (to lv2 values, but only in offensive). Bad thing is that unit would lose special in advancement, but an early buff could be quite ok.

Chevalier Surgeon , cripple got reworked that with basic healing the debuff can be removed. Other use that surgeoun could have is that units cannot be injured if being next to Surgeon.

Chevalier Healer theorically underperforming compared to some other healers in rashy era (poison can still be done by lv1's) , maybe regen+4 ? they have low base HP and not needing being next to lv1 healers for passive regen could work too.

Chevalier Soldier is really nice unit, price to 17g (+1)

Dardo Striker , same aura as Chevalier Surgeon? (inmunize nearby allies from injuries) and HP to 48 (+2)

Dardo Ranger Weapon-Mastery? Dardo have no high accuracy attackers at all.

Dardo Horseman price to 23g (+1g)

Dardo Lancer damage decrease to 11-3 , HP to 58 (+2) , because of existance of Dardo Striker and Ranger. They can also get boosted by Horse-Lord aura lol and lv3 leadership aura together? not sure but imagine XD ... also Dardo have criples and blur together, perfect scenario for lancers.

Trireme Catapult cripple(5%) ? just because looks very realistic LOL

Luz Cleric / Bishop getting that prevent injury aura.


Btw, Luz still underperforming in pvp? Luz were doing expectacular in PVE againist AI because of very solid faction in mid/late game, but I'm not sure about pvp situation.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

I've heard that Dardo Slinger can get negative traits (such as weak), so I think that changing his melee from 2-3 to 3-2 could be a better idea, because the damage loss from 2-3 to 1-3 is extremely high , while not that much from 3-2 to 2-2.
2-3 was a buff from 2-2. I know weak affects tham a lot, but I currently consider UD vs Dardo quite balanced, so I don't see a need to buff them more.
What I am considering is an event that would change their traits on level up(also for Luz peasant). They'll not get 2 positve traits, but at least lose their 1 bad one for a good one.
Any opinions about giving +freeze to hare rider and hare master?
Imo Hares are a pain to deal with and don't need a buff. Maybe this has changed with all the additional cold resistances. I'll test how gnomes are faring against other factions now.
Dardo Equestrian got an idea for it, some kind of special that in offensive increases this unit's blade/impact ressistance by 10%
Does equestrian need lowered resistances in the first place? Adding new abilties always makes it a little harder to keep track of them (both as designer and as player), would like to avoid adding single-use abilities, unless they add a lot to the gameplay.
Chevalier Surgeon , cripple got reworked that with basic healing the debuff can be removed
Remove injury defenitely got shadow nerfed, but there's still the one use of removing injury from Surgeon itself.
Immunity aura is a nice idea and relatively easy to implement (also for other states like blind/frozen..., though this could be on a different unit). Will think about it. I got some reservations, since it's not easy to explain how the unit would prevent injuries. Treating them afterwards is the more realistic approach. Same goes for Dardo striker.
For magic casters like Luz Bishop it's a different story.
Chevalier Healer theorically underperforming
There might be better healers, but I still think they add a lot of value with curing and the lvl3 advancement. Most other healers can't even unpison themselve. I prefer them over the Surgeon by far.
Dardo Ranger Weapon-Mastery?
unsure. Ranger got parry already and injure would increase accuracy for every unit. Personally I prefer them over the other advancement line (except vs Undead or when facing lots of ships/woses). Also there's the Auxilia with accuracy.
Dardo Lancer
change is ok, though I don't believe leadership and horse-lord work both (at least in the current wesnoth build). They use the same id.
Haven't tested it though.
Dardo Horsemen and lancers have 3 strikes and are neutral. They lack the damage of a glass canon build, but still suffer the same. Still very useful units, I just hope they won't become outmatched.


Update uploaded.
Didn't have time for balance testing.
When I test it's mostly on smaller maps and there are not many units that make it to lvl 2. Not sure how well they do in late. Inquisitor is good on paper, but I never get that far because the game is usually decided by the time a side gets 2-3 level 2 units.
Also made a map where I basically watch Ai vs Ai. Quick way to find out some jarring problems, but Ai is horrible at recruiting, especially when it overrecruits water units. At least with two Ais, they're both so bad that it balances out :lol:
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Vyncyn wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 2:45 pm
Update uploaded.
Didn't have time for balance testing.
When I test it's mostly on smaller maps and there are not many units that make it to lvl 2. Not sure how well they do in late. Inquisitor is good on paper, but I never get that far because the game is usually decided by the time a side gets 2-3 level 2 units.
Also made a map where I basically watch Ai vs Ai. Quick way to find out some jarring problems, but Ai is horrible at recruiting, especially when it overrecruits water units. At least with two Ais, they're both so bad that it balances out :lol:
Once in my life I tested for ageless era recruitment patterns and unit roles in order to make AI to not pick them this badly. Unit usage and faction recruitment pattern is precisely to allow the AI recruit and follow a pattern. I remember that actualk Kthons were lossing againist everything (even having thrallmente plague, that is basically plague but copying a weaker version of the enemy unit with its skills) and after I tested some builds and stuff, then kthon AI was unstoppable and only defeatable by other AI in 1vs1 if using destroyers :lol:

That requires lots of polishing and testing, and viewing what misstakes does AI and strict it to a more specific build (example recruitment pattern list can have 3, 7, 20 units , etc) ... if you see AI purchased too low archers and lost because of that, in the current 7 unit/roles pattern you can extend it to 12 adding as many archers as melee units in the new bigger recruitment pattern and then AI will recruit more archers before recruitment patterns starts at first element.

Something very important to consider as well, is about sometimes forcing AI to get the most balanced recruitment list/pattern in atleast the 5 first elements, as usually following the rest of the pattern with gold deficit will be harder because of gold limitations. Personally adding 1-2 scouts between the first 7 elements, and adding very few for every 3-8 added units to patterns.

But in resume, with the recruitment pattern/unit roles you can force AI to recruit more in a specific way. Aquatic can have a specifc role and that will not break the game because you can even invent new roles such as Tank, Fish, DO NOT BUY ME (in case the unit has a role that is not included in recruitment pattern, AI will have it its recruitment list but will NEVER or very rarely recruit it).
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Adding a new role for mermen and ships is a great idea. Very important for Aquana who have over 30% fish.
Tbh I'm not confident in finding a good balance, but just reducing the amount of recruited mermen should help them.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Vyncyn wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 7:15 pm Adding a new role for mermen and ships is a great idea. Very important for Aquana who have over 30% fish.
Tbh I'm not confident in finding a good balance, but just reducing the amount of recruited mermen should help them.
I'm curious about the map you use to test AI, I usually used 2p hamlets to do that, I like that map and it seems a much more fair map compared to some other 2p options.

Also depends in what you are wanting AI to recruit, and with which frequency. It takes a lot of time to polish a single faction recruitment pattern, and this change only benefit AI when using the faction.
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