Rashy Era

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Atreides
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Atreides »

Vyncyn wrote: April 27th, 2023, 8:46 pm -While I was trying to look the old stats up on the https://units.wesnoth.org/1.16/mainline ... nline.html, I noticed the whole era wasn't on there
Yeah it shows an "internal error" in the build report. Gratz on making a rare one. ; - ) Go read it, it may even point to what the problem is. I didn't understand it but you should, hehe.

Also 1.14/12 rashy are still there to go back to for the ships (unless that's too far back, which come to think of it, likely is true...)

I'm such a nerd that I eagerly anticipate Thursdays when the unit database is updated... To look for errors in my addons of course, I've found it very helpful since it shows up stuff you won't find in the stderr or by running it. And that's not to mention how valuable it is for seeing the big picture of an era. Units that advance from 1 to 3 stick out nicely for example...
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

I didn't understand it either

Warning: No race "None" found (None).
Error: Era 'era_R_aoh' faction 'Chevalier' references non-existant unit id 'VRCe Holy Knight'!
Warning: Unit id=null not found as advancement of 'VRHR White Mage'

please report as bug
can only concatenate str (not "NoneType") to str

fixed the Holy Knight and White Mage problem, but I doubt that was it

Edit: released the new version. Ships are changed, though I kept the some stats from last release
big ships: +5 or -5% to some resistances (depending on the ship). Less defense in reef. 20% on village
small ships: 20% on village, no bonus for sand/frozen etc, but decreased flat movement cost from 4 to 3
other changes as suggested
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IPS
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Yo, got some ideas for already existing units. As they actually feel "bit weaker" in some aspects compared to other mages or healers.

- Blur (5%) : This attack would debuff any enemy being hit by this attack, decreasing it's chances of hit by -5% (affecting magical as well). The value can be even higher in certain exceptions, but only thing is that massive -10% blur value could be veryyy strong.
Units that would be gaining it: Lv2 Lucky Gnome and its advancements, Chevalier Healer on lv1 to lv3 in Dispell attack.

In case any unit with blur 5% would then get debuffed by blur 10%, the unit would replace the debuff to highest value.
This could potentially give an extra use to the low accuracy dispell or lowered ressistances but higher defenses of gnomes.

Any value greater than 15% in blur could be game breaking, so I would say blur 15% would be max value.

Still I got some ideas too...!

Other thing that could help a faction with no healers (dardo), giving their infantry a bonus -1 mountains movement cost, this would mean that dardo have as bonus 10% on fire, -1 mp cost on mountains and even some of them being +10% sand defense. As well I think that making an option B for dardo lv2 archers that adds some -5% defense debuff on their ranged could be pretty interesting as they're not owning either poison, cures or magical.

Unit Suggestion: Dardo Striker (or any better name?)
HP: 46 , MP 5 , 6-3 blade melee, 5-5 pierce ranged +injury (5%) , price: 26g, XP: 65
Few bonuses: 1 sand movement cost, 50% defense on sand, +cures (capacity to treat allied poison?) ,

Basically this unit decreases enemy defenses by -5% after it hits, this is greatly useful when on same faction there are horsemen. You can change the special name lol. Best thing is that dardo archer gets quickly to lv2 meaning they can see this unit oftenly.

They do know about anatomy so they know where to aim to decrease enemies mobility in fights, and also explains why they can cure poison.

Unit suggestion: Dardo Sand Ranger (or any better name?)
HP: 58 , MP 5 , 6-4 blade melee, 7-5 pierce ranged +injury (5%) , price: 48g , XP: 150
Few bonuses: 1 sand movement cost, 50% defense on sand, 1 movement cost on hills, 70% defense on mountains, +cures?

Idea is also giving some kind of debuff/bonus to encourage dardo to have more line-breaking potential. As well, maybe a solution to at least treat poison without need of villages (or instead, in some new unit instead?). Dardo depends much on their archers, but also players need to sacrifice some output of fire damage for this extra utility unit.


Also some other thing that could make sense is giving some kind of debuff to vixen's curses , blur 5%? or if you got any better idea you can reconsider that xD

Also , I hope that previous post showing previous ships .cfg file helps you Vyrcyn.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

I hope that previous post showing previous ships .cfg file helps
Yes! Thank you! I didn't restore all previous values, but it did help a lot to balance their stats.

Those are some nice ideas too. I'll try to implement them, might need some more time to draw and program than usual.

What do you suggest as removal conditions for blur and injured? At end of turn or only through village/healing ability?

Will think about which units gets those curses/conditions. Necromancers/Dark evles/Marashy/Vixen all have good units where they would fit. And there are lots of options for different ones. Accuracy, defense, resistance, damage, speed...
It should also be possible to work with auras :hmm: like at start of turn a unit gives all surrounding allies the "inspired" condition, that let's them fight better for the rest of the turn. Or a unit that spreads debuffs to all surrounding enemies. I think Era of magic already has a poison aura?
Endless possibilites...

But I don't want to upset balancing again after all the work in the past weeks (thanks again IPS for all your input :D ). I'll propably just create a few weak ones as prove of concept.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Vyncyn wrote: April 28th, 2023, 6:20 pm What do you suggest as removal conditions for blur and injured? At end of turn or only through village/healing ability?
For Blur, lasting one turn, while Injured might be required a village for taking care of it. After all units gaining blur would gain it by free just as a bonus. While unit using Injured depends on that special and needs other treatment.

But exactly the idea of adding very low values on units that already did exist is that it needs much less rebalancing or testing.

Hare Rider looks like an stupid overpriced unit , but with the buffs it gained a time ago, it pumping to lv2 is always a constant issue that opponent has to deal as 7-4 cold magic with such mobility and melee is not fun to deal with. On THAT case I wouldn't add any experiments to it because the unit is now fine lol.

Monk's ranged 5-3 is quite low, I think that could a be a good place to add a lesser curse/debuff on there, even blur 5% could come handy as it helps him with his 50% flat defense. Still marashy counts of earlier slower (lv2) and +magical which means that as faction they're more gifted than Dardo are.

Elyser healer lv2 is bit weak as well in damage output, maybe a very weak aura as bonus or idk could fit her well... +10% magic ressists named nature bless aura (which non healing druids in forestfolk could use as well), Elyser Sylph only gains +2 damage in ranged in lv3, maybe a bonus +5% blur on his ranged could fit well.

Aquamancer's secondary attack has nearly not much uses at all (except agianist units like wose?) that's other attack that only is useful in AE because as getting more damage/strikes having enemies with lower ressists will help, but actually in rashy era ecosystem that's not much of help unless intervention of XP mod or if using lv3 New Moon mage which is scary unit.

Last to mention , is that I feel Lv3 temple guard bit too weak as lv3 fighter if compared to other units as Elvish Champions ... competitively they do ok thanks of the no pierce weakness I suggested a time ago, but in most of other places that aren't mountains or forest they suffer a bit. Whatever I think that lv1 and leveled up shamans having 5% blur in curse will help a lot.

Last thing to mention is that I think it might be a good idea to decrease lv2 price for Amazon guard to 25g (-1g)


But general idea is that if you're adding an aura or attack special in something, consider doing it in a unit very low on stats like the examples given, and best likely in very low mounts to not be balance breaking at all.

Last thing I would like to mention is if it's possble for necros that lv2 skeleton has another advancement that has no defense or ressistance variations but only regen 4, allowing it to get 60% defense in certain terrains, difference would be that this one would have more melee strikes of less damage than actual lv3 bone golem, and having few less HP and roughly costing 52-53g.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Atreides »

Vyncyn wrote: April 28th, 2023, 4:20 pm I didn't understand it either

Warning: No race "None" found (None).
Error: Era 'era_R_aoh' faction 'Chevalier' references non-existant unit id 'VRCe Holy Knight'!
Warning: Unit id=null not found as advancement of 'VRHR White Mage'

please report as bug
can only concatenate str (not "NoneType") to str

fixed the Holy Knight and White Mage problem, but I doubt that was it
Heh, well I had to take a look myself and yeah it's not easy to track down. Not enough clues in the error. Only suggestion that came to mind is to move the define that is inside the holy knight unit type tag to before it. Perhaps its not parsing it early enough. First time I've seen a define inside a unit type. I have seen a number of unit files with defines at the top before the unit type tag though. Just my guess though. Would need a pre-processor expert to weigh in...
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Ravana »

It asks you to report it as bug. You should do that. There is traceback.print_exc() so someone with access to wmlunits server can see why issue happened.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Ok. I was kinda hoping the issue will go away next thursday, or at least provide some more insight after the next database update.
Put a bug report on github anyway

The #define inside the unit tag did not make problems in the past. The error with holy knight came from a missing linebreak (I messed with the replace function in notepad++ and it did unintentionally break some unit files). Should be fixed now.

In other news, 1.6.10 just got released.
I fixed some potential issues, where linbreaks where not porperly set in some unit files.
Also programmed some new stati/conditions:
-Drunk: Aura for dwarvish bartender (instead of the leadership). At the start of the turn it applies a (+damage, -accuracy) condition to surrounding allies. Drunk state disappears at beginning of your next turn.
-Injures: Chevalier Basher lost his berseker, but can now injure units, which effectively lowers their defense by 10%. State can be removed under the same conditions as poison. Currently the 10% accuracy bonus applies to magic as well, but I'll propably change that.
-Blur: -10% accuracy until the end of your turn. Applied by the gnome scout in an extra attack.

I'll work on some more conditions and units to apply them (Dardo Striker is not finished yet). Currently only the injures could be problematic balance wise. Blur on scout is rather useless, as the attack does very little damage and the condition disappears so fast. Drunk is more of a nerf to the bartender, both because of the accuracy debuff as well as gameplay wise (less flexible than leadership)
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Yo got a quick review on the update, also one thing I've realized as well one other suggestion.

Actually basher's criple only works in melee if the unit only has melee attack, meaning that bowmen or other ranged units don't get a benefit at all from this special if the unit doesn't have a ranged attack. You can check EofM to see how hex works, that is a real debuff that lowers terrain defenses.

In case of Gnome with the quick sand, well, you can make something about it, instead of making it a ranged attack , make it a range named "surprise" meaning that if the unit uses this attack will not get retaliations from real ranged units because of attacking in "surprise" range. In case you're worried about missing too often, I think you can increase all level values in strikes by +1 (lv3 would be +1 damage instead of +1 strikes compared to lv2) also add it an "attack-only" special meaning it cannot be used in defense because precisely being a surprise from enemy :shock: AND in EotM there are some imperialists with ballistas with "artillery range" you can learn how to add a new range using that.

Lv2 and Lv3 chevalier healers are bit underperforming compared to mage healers (well unless we talk about Ultimate Wesnoth Survival and poison doing a lot of task to these unmobible guard units... which is an exception) maybe some type of very weak buff for units standing next to them in lv3 Doctors could be interesting concept to study.

Soon in another time I'm posting something, but I've checked the changes to have an idea about how they work.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Actually basher's criple only works in melee if the unit only has melee attack, meaning that bowmen or other ranged units don't get a benefit at all from this special if the unit doesn't have a ranged attack. You can check EofM to see how hex works, that is a real debuff that lowers terrain defenses.
That's a good catch. Didn't notice during testing. Unfortunately the EoFM has its own error and my fixes don't work
-EofM uses post advance to remove the curse, so if the defense values of the unit change they are overwritten by the previous level
-pre advance causes a stack overflow
-advance causes the game to be stuck in the advance screen
-removing the uncurse macro from the event apllies the correct values during level up, but does not heal the unit by AMLA

btw my corrode has the same problems, but I can fix them in the next update because there's a [resistance] ability

I think I'll just accept the current behaviour for now. In-game reason: the unit can focus on defense because they can't retaliate?
Maybe I can find a better fix someday.

Edit: Fixed corrode and injured now. Apparently you can just implement [chance to hit] as ability. New update is released
Might rewrite the other conditions as an ability too. They work fine (as far as i know), but that makes it easier to keep track
------------------
In case of Gnome
I added a disable special, which does pretty much the same, but easier.
No damage increase yet. It's an extra they didn't have before and I wanted to test a little more before deciding if they deserve the buff.

Not sure what to do with the doctors. 60% hit on dispel?. It could also be an ability like drunk (e.g. "drugged", which gives some benefits and drawbacks). I also have an idea for a surgeon unit al alternative lvl 2.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Ravana »

I did rewrite of hex to Lua for ageless.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

Ravana wrote: May 1st, 2023, 12:29 pm I did rewrite of hex to Lua for ageless.
Oh :oops:. I saw that code, but I thought the original version would be more up to date.

lot's of time wasted, but my version works too
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Vyncyn wrote: May 1st, 2023, 1:12 pm
Ravana wrote: May 1st, 2023, 12:29 pm I did rewrite of hex to Lua for ageless.
Oh :oops:. I saw that code, but I thought the original version would be more up to date.

lot's of time wasted, but my version works too
As I have said, if you apply cripple in a unit with only melee range, archers will not get benefit from the defense reduction because it works as an attack special, but there is no attacks added for a range that did not exist.

Other thing that I got in mind , is that if you rework drunked status to decrease -5% on defense instead of accuracy, that would be a more propper offensive buff. As for example, +25% damage but costing you the chance of dealing really extra damage because of always a miss is quite weird (9-3 but in a time you hit 2 of 3 or even 1 of 3) , but while as a terrain defense reductor would be fine because the -5% terrain defens can matter in terms of tanknyness (70% to 65% is being hit literally 1 of 6 more often if we calculate chance of enemy to hit , while in flat 30% to 25% is just 1 of 14 more chances of being hit) ... which means the higher the terrain defense is the -5% defense reduction is more relevant.

so , 60% enchanted (dispell) could work well, some people doesn't like that much the only 50% accuracy on it :lol: :lol: :lol: , but he's not a mage and he's other stuff, but for that then dispell base damage should be decreased just a bit on lv3 value to 5-6 , but other stuff that you could try is giving a leadership -10% on dispell attacks, so decreasing a little enemy damage could be a more interesting bonus than only an accuracy increase for chevalier doctors. If you , I would add only the -10% leadership debuff, chevalier is very solid in physical fighters and have poison, they don't require mages that much as other factions.

Well, in some cases you can add curses that just increases damage taken by a mount (like charge, but without dealing more damage) or giving negative leadership as an special to their attacks. Ressists stuff is little more strong than damage increase reduction but it's a big counter of units with steadfast, so idk, if that is still on your interest.

So there are some units with weaker attacks that don't have any feature in units I've mentioned you (Marashy Monk's ranged, Aquana aquamancer's iceball, etc) that you can consider as first experiments for curses/debuff :lol:
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by Vyncyn »

As I have said, if you apply cripple in a unit with only melee range, archers will not get benefit from the defense reduction because it works as an attack special, but there is no attacks added for a range that did not exist.
But it does work. Granted, it applies the name to the wrong unit, but that can be fixed.
injured.jpg
injured.jpg (37.14 KiB) Viewed 5763 times
Edit: released 1.6.10b
Added Surgeon unit.
Gave Doctor the ability to medicate (unit heals 4HP next turn). A very minor buff. Just wanted to mess around with it.
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Re: Rashy Era

Post by IPS »

Yo, while we wait for news about upcoming units and while some debuffs get implemented correctly to be viable, I will post here some few corrections I missed in a near past.

- Aquana Longowbman price to 23g (-1g)
- Blue Mage price to 35g (-3g)
- Chevalier Heavy crossbowman / Arbalest suggestion for 15% impact ressistance.
White I think 20% is too much, I still think that 10% is bit too low, this allows them to not be countered that easily and be worth more as an option.
- Chevalier Horseman XP from 44 to 52 , price to 23g (+1g)
- Chevalier Quack XP from 46 to 34
Quack will never be carry even if getting early kills and early lv2.
- Chevalier General price to 58g (+4g)
- Dardo Horseman XP from 48 to 55
- Dardo Legion XP from 44 to 40
- Dardo Scout XP from 40 to 38
- Dark Rider and Shadow rider cold ressistances increases to 20% (+10%)
- Dark Archer XP from 39 to 36
- Elvish Schooner price to 19g (+1g)
- Small spider XP from 46 to 42
- Gnome Scout / Gnome Pathfinder pocket sand strikes increase by +2
The unit consumes a tile when using this attack for just applying the debuff, but it's okay as it's skirmisher, otherwise it would be a waste of tile.
Not viable in closed spaces unless you want safety 70% and blur dodges in very closed spaces.
- Gnome Ranger Pocket sand damage increase from 1-4 to 2-5
- Colossus is actually not having regen+4 , we modify it in here?
- Luz Rider price increase to 18g (+1) , XP from 44 to 46
They dominate almost any other scout except deer riders, cougars and few other exceptions.
- Should Cleric also regen+4 on lv2 as well?
it's up to you, but I think just because of the downgraded illuminates value it could be okay to consider.
- Luz Inquisition Warrior HP to 56 (+2)
- Marashy Guardian XP from 43 to 40
- Night Guard XP from 74 to 84
Good lv2 unit in overall.
- Marashy Longswordsman price to 25g (-1g)
- Marashy Monk XP from 46 to 42
- Marashy bowman XP from 39 to 35
- Golem XP from 49 to 45
Haven't tested yet, but I suspect the unit could be doing better with 50 HP , but I'm not that sure.
- Stone Golem price to 34g (-2g)
- Amazon Stalker , poison dart could additionally have +Blur or a worsened version that only works on living (and which would NOT stack with blur)

Later will check some other aspects , but that's all for now.


Edit: Wandering mage is having 60% defense on sand instead of 40% , that's a problem.
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