Simyr

[oaq]

Three years ago, one of this forum's best threads ever regarded Simyr:

http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=33511

What is Simyr? Answer:

Spoiler:

At hard difficulty only, in Heir to the Throne's second scenario Blackwater Port, Simyr is a loyal knight who joins your army when you have killed the orcish leader Mokolo Qimur by turn 9 -- no easy feat.

Others have contended that Simyr is attainable only with good luck. I used to agree, but now find that the right strategy attains Simyr with merely average luck. This post explains how.

Spoiler:

The key to earning Simyr is to lure the Orcish leader, Mokolo Qimur, from his fortress at the end of turn 7 or turn 8, remembering that turns 8 and 9 enjoy daylight at Blackwater Port. Of course, Mokolo does not like to come out into the open. However, careful examination of the map discovers a village southeast of Mokolo's fortress, a village Mokolo can reach from his fortress in a single turn. Mokolo does not mind going there. That is where you should lure him.

One lures Mokolo with bait. Place a unit you don't mind losing in the woods next to the village. Mokolo will usually come to attack the unit, after which you can kill him, or surround and kill him.

Details:

• Haldiel: During turns 1 and 2, send Haldiel westward to capture two villages. Neither the western terrain nor the approaching night however is favorable to Haldiel. Therefore, from turn 3, pull Haldiel eastward to safety, planning to throw him into action on the northeastern plains during the next day's daylit turns 8 and 9.
• Delfador: Delfador is to lead your western strike force. During turn 1 however, he has some time, so let him capture the nearby village northwest of Konrad's camp.
• Konrad: Konrad is to lead an eastern company. During turns 1 and 2 however, he must remain near camp. Let Konrad recall and recruit Delfador's western strike force during turn 1. The next turn, let Konrad recall and recruit the eastern company. Place a full six units during turn 1, then as many as you can afford during turn 2.
• Neither recall nor recruit units after turn 2. Delfador's western strike force and Konrad's eastern company suffice.
• During turn 1, as part of Delfador's western strike force, recall a unit like a marksman or sorceress (or an archer or shaman almost ready to promote to a marksman or a sorceress). Though not absolutely necessary, such a unit markedly improves your odds because it can hit Mokolo under cover.
• Not necessary but desirable: If you have a quick scout (you do, don't you? http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=39408), then recall him during turn 1, too. Place him northeast of Konrad, whence he can run north to capture six villages during turns 2 through 7. Unlike your other turn-1 recalls and recruits, the scout belongs to Konrad's eastern company, which the scout can help during turns 8 and 9; but through turn 7, the scout's sole mission is to hoist Konrad's red flag over Sir Kaylan's northeastern villages as fast as he can. (Don't let your quick scout be killed in any case. You will need him again during scenario 6, The Siege of Elensefar. Fortunately, the scout's mission at Blackwater Port is pretty safe.)
• You can recruit a horseman during turn 1 to capture the village southwest of Konrad's camp during turn 2. If you do, this horseman joins Delfador's western strike force; and you should not expect him to survive. However, if you are short of gold, you need not recruit any horseman at all. You have Haldiel and hope soon to have Simyr, after all. One of Delfador's recruits, preferably a quick one you wouldn't mind losing, can turn aside during turn 3 to capture the village in question if no horseman is available. Alternately, Haldiel can capture the village on his way eastward, turn 4.
• After placing a full six units during turn 1, try to place at least four during turn 2. If you can afford only three, then Konrad's eastern company will be less effective. Therefore, if forgoing the horseman during turn 1 lets you afford that fourth unit during turn 2, then consider forgoing the horseman.
• Note that Blackwater Port is probably a better scenario to recruit fighters than is The Elves Beseiged, due to the terrain that obtains in each scenario. Therefore, try to recruit at least one strong fighter at Blackwater, try to get this fighter some experience if you can, and try not to get him killed.
• At the end of turn 1, Konrad has some time, so send him then to capture the village in the far southeast.
• From turn 2, send Delfador and his western strike force toward the woods in the map's southwestern corner.

By the start of turn 3, all your units (except of course Simyr) are on the map and in play. The eastern company is just leaving camp. The western strike force has already moved west and a little south, angling toward the far southwestern forest, under whose boughs it means to shelter during the night.

The woods in the center of the map are tempting terrain, but after many tries I have now come to feel that they are not a good position for Konrad's eastern company. There are two-and-a-half reasons for this. First, orcish forces can reach the central woods by nightfall, hammering Konrad's eastern company there all night. Second, the central woods stand too far from Sir Kaylan's allied forces. The half reason is that the central woods contain not only woods but hills, too, which is terrain orcs like. Better is for the eastern company to move northward into the open, hovering just out of range of orcish movement. If Konrad has a fighter he doesn't mind losing, he can dispatch the fighter forward to hold the village on the coast. The fighter will die, but while dying will wound orcs which Konrad may later personally kill during daylit turns 8 and 9.

The western strike force wants to hide until dawn, turn 7. It will probably be impracticable to keep the entire western strike force out of range of all enemy units at every moment, but experience suggests that most orcs that cannot immediately attack the western strike force will ignore it, instead marching east to engage Konrad. This is what you want. If four orcs or so turn southward, Delfador and his troops can handle these few even at night; but six southward orcs will be hard to handle and seven spell doom. Let the western strike force therefore await dawn inconspicuously out of range under the trees. (One tactic that seems to confuse the western orcs is to let one fighter or shaman linger a turn or two to defend the south-central village -- that is, the village just to the east of the long, thin hedge of woods that extends southward from the central forest. Alternately, you can defend the village a little further west, on the east eave of the southwestern woods. Maybe you can even defend both villages briefly. The defender or defenders will probably survive and even remain mobile, and they may draw off an orc or two that would otherwise have concentrated against Delfador's crucial position in the southwest. Even if they draw off no orcs, they will still be close enough to advance toward Mokolo Qimur's baited village at dawn.)

At dawn, turn 7, let Delfador and his best unit or two move quickly northward toward Mokolo Qimur's position. Take care not to let Delfador and his best unit be surrounded or immobilized. Use your other western units to screen off and/or destroy orcs that might otherwise impede Delfador's strike.

Starting in the morning, turn 8, let Konrad attack hard in the east. With Sir Kaylan's help, Konrad's eastern company is stronger than the orcs and can defeat them in daylight, earning valuable experience -- especially experience for Konrad personally and for Haldiel.

In the west, look for a chance to bait Mokolo to the aforementioned village, southeast of his fortress. Place one, expendable unit in the woods next to the village. Mokolo likes that village position, so he will probably come. Kill him there during turn 8 or turn 9.

It is possible, though not probable, that Mokolo will forgo the bait, or that you will be unable to maneuver the bait into position. In this case, admittedly, your position becomes desperate. You may be able to attack Mokolo in his fortress, but orcs tend to screen the way, slowing Delfador's advance. Besides, if you wound Mokolo in his fortress during turn 8, he can retreat out of reach to the north, leaving Delfador unable to finish the job during turn 9. Fortunately however, experience suggests that the bait will probably work.

Remember:

• Mokolo is a level-2 unit whose death yields 16 experience points. If you can, try to give these points to some unit other than Delfador, who does not need them.
• Remember also that Mokolo's death immediately ends the scenario. On the last turn therefore, attack in the east first, then the west after. Attacking in the west first forfeits valuable experience your units, especially Konrad, might have earned during the last turn in the east.

Admittedly, even if you do everything right, much still depends on your luck, not during the entire scenario or over the whole map, but specifically in the west during the final strike, on the scenario's last turn. You will very probably need two things to go your way. Second, you will need Delfador and his best unit to hit Mokolo; but first, you will need the rest of the western strike force to destroy whatever orc or orcs happen to screen the way to Mokolo at the crucial moment. The AI is not very good at screening, of course, but even a couple of wounded orcs wandering randomly about can delay Delfador disastrously, right when it matters. The most that can be said is that the odds run clearly in your favor once Mokolo has taken the bait, but when it comes down to a single turn as this strategy will likely do, there are no guarantees.

Such is the strategy. Of course, like any good strategy, this one must be adapted by you to whatever peculiar circumstances might arise during your particular attempt at the scenario. Sufficiently bad luck can defeat the strategy in any case, but, with this strategy, experience seems to suggest that merely average luck is good enough to bait Mokolo Qimur from his fortress, kill him, and thus add the valuable Simyr to your recall roll.

Update a month later: In case you have not yet succeeded using this post's advice, I have posted further details in the thread. See Fighters and archers, below. Moreover, one or two other writers have added interesting advice below, as well.

[Turuk]

A well-written walkthrough oaq, and one I want to try soon as your method sounds better than the one I used previously.

[oaq]

Turuk: If you have the time and the inclination, I would be interested to hear about the method you used previously.

[Turuk]

Turuk: If you have the time and the inclination, I would be interested to hear about the method you used previously.

I just got back from a two week trip, let me dig through my old stuff and see if I still have the replay sitting around.

[Theron]

There is a way to get Simyr reliably: use 3 Elvish Rangers for assassination of the orc leader. First attack on turn 8 and finish on turn 9: 2 turns * 3 units * 7-4 (8-4 if dextrous) vs. 58 HP (60% defense). 2 Elvish Rangers could be sufficient with a bit luck.

Now the hard part is to get 3 Elvish Rangers in The Elves Besieged. This is not guaranteed. Recruit only archers and shamans (70% defense in forests). Hope that the green leader does not recruit too many assassins (hard to kill in forests but you only get XP for killing a level 1 unit). Hope that brown doesn't steal too much (level 2) kills.

Maybe I find old replays of the scenarios 1-2.

Edit:
Attached replays of the scenarios 1-2 (Wesnoth 1.11.16).
I didn't get Simyr this time because of a ******* troll whelp saved the leader from getting ZOCed.

[oaq]

Good alternative. With Theron's addition, this thread now offers two ways to get Simyr.

I didn't get Simyr this time because of a ******* troll whelp saved the leader from getting ZOCed.

Yes. Even a good strategy must stretch to get Simyr. Bad luck at the crucial moment can still beat you. A good strategy does seem to tip the odds in Konrad's favor, though.

Thanks.

[oaq]

Further improve your odds with the right balance of fighters and archers.

Spoiler:

Even if most orcs go east, some orcs will remain to oppose Delfador's western strike force. Of these remaining orcs, the strike force must destroy some, delay some and decoy some.

This post expands upon the earlier post, giving greater detail.

SHAMANS AND HORSEMEN

Before speaking of destruction, delay and decoy: why not shamans or horsemen in the west? Why fighters and archers?

Experience suggests that shamans are of limited use in the west of Blackwater Port. Shamans are fine units but are slow to move and slow to act. How slow to act? Answer: one of the shaman's chief strengths is that she can slow a foe now that friends can destroy later. To slow is effective but, well, slow. Moreover, the shaman's healing power is of limited use in Blackwater's west, since time is lacking and since a cluster of units around a shaman is probably the wrong formation there. If a shaman starts within nine or ten XP of promotion, then bring her, especially if quick. Otherwise, leave her to help Konrad in the east.

Regarding horsemen, the trouble with horsemen in Blackwater's west has already been explained. Too much of the western action takes place under cover of trees at night. Horsemen do not like this.

FIGHTERS AND ARCHERS

Fighters and archers are better. I would suggest two of each. That is, let Delfador's western strike force consist of six units: Delfador, a chief companion (preferably a marksman or enchantress, or a unit about to promote to a marksman or enchantress), two fighters and two archers.

Three fighters and one archer can be a reasonable alternative, but the second archer's extra speed is welcome because you've got a large, open western field to cross fast toward the baiting village (see the earlier post) during turn 8. Thus, one tends to prefer the two fighters and two archers. After all, it would be a shame to fail at the very end because some needed unit finished exactly one hex short. Speed counts.

FORWARD POSITIONING AT DAWN

At dawn, turn 7, forward positioning is probably more important than is conservation of hit points. Move forward aggressively, or you'll be too far away to achieve your goal during turns 8 and 9. Too, remember that you are likely to have to maneuver around whatever orcs happen to blunder into your intended path. Position therefore as far forward as you reasonably can, even if at some slight to moderate risk.

On the other hand, as soon as a unit of yours approaches within direct striking range of Mokolo Qimur's keep (not his whole castle, but specifically his keep, which occupies the single hex in the castle's center, which is where Mokolo has perched), so that your unit might hit Mokolo there next turn, I have observed that the AI tends to react by pulling most or all available units westward to defend (though I have not verified this by deciphering the game's AI code). If this is right, then during turn 7, before approaching quite so close, count units, count hexes, and be sure that your approach will not draw more defenders westward than you can handle. Otherwise, approach the baiting village instead during turn 7, while staying just out of range of the keep until turn 8.

As an exception to the advice to position forward, a decoy might or might not prove useful, depending on the exact situation on the map. For example, a non-quick fighter in a southern village, though maybe too slow to approach Mokolo, can still draw aside defenders during turns 6, 7 and/or 8. Fighters defend well in villages, too, so the decoy is not a bad tactic.

VILLAGES AND GOLD

Neither of the two scenarios that follow Blackwater Port suffers from an acute shortage of gold. The Siege of Elensefar does suffer, but that is not for a while. Gold saved at Blackwater decays so much before then that one need not worry overmuch about saving it (1 - 0.4*0.4*0.4 = 94 percent of saved Blackwater gold will be lost before Elensefar needs it, after all). If you have sent the quick scout discussed in the earlier post northeast and otherwise have grabbed convenient villages early, this earns sufficient gold toward coming scenarios.

Delfador's western strike force can and perhaps should hold southern villages for tactical reasons (maybe for defense, maybe for healing, maybe to deny the foe defense and healing, maybe to decoy) but probably should not hold southern villages merely for gold's sake. One member of the strike force can optionally turn aside to capture a village during turn 3; but from turn 4 onward, you should probably earn your gold in the east. Delfador's western strike force has more important work to do.

THE ELVES BESIEGED AND GOLD

One of the several advantages of the present strategy is that it does not want the recruitment of horsemen. This saves gold, thus placing less demand for gold on the preceding scenario, The Elves Besieged.

You should still have paid some attention to gold during The Elves Besieged, for instance by sending one quick scout southward in that scenario and by grabbing villages in its north where convenient; but you can also afford to have taken an extra turn during The Elves Besieged to earn extra XP if chance has afforded it. Such an extra turn will have cost Blackwater some gold, of course, but this is probably all right. With prudent budgeting, Blackwater can spare it.

THE DELAYED PLACEMENT

If you have not learned it already, learn now the gold-saving technique of the delayed placement.

Often in Wesnoth, one can delay the recall or recruitment of a unit one turn without harm, because one's leader means to remain in or near his keep an extra turn, anyway, and because one may not need the newly placed unit at once. Such a delay can give one time to capture extra villages to cover the per-turn cost of having the unit on the map. In some scenarios, the saved gold can make a crucial difference.

The difference is probably not crucial at Blackwater, but a delayed placement from Blackwater's turn 2 until its turn 3 can still help. On turn 1, of course, you cannot afford delay: place a full six units at once. On turn 2, though, there is little immediate work for Konrad's eastern company to do. A good compromise can be to place two fighters during turn 2, then to place, say, an archer and a shaman during turn 3. A slightly more frugal variation places one fighter during turn 2, delaying not two but three placements until turn 3. Konrad wasn't going to depart camp northward until turn 3, anyway; and the archer is fast enough to catch up starting turn 4, and shamans tend to like slightly rearward positions, anyway.

LUCK

Even with the strategy this thread presents, poor luck can still defeat you. To attain Simyr was never going to be easy, after all. The present strategy tilts the odds significantly in your favor, but no more.

When you outnumber patrolling foes in the southwestern woods at night, you must destroy them there fast, prudently but forcefully trading the disadvantage of darkness against the advantages of superior numbers and terrain. Should two or more southwestern patrollers linger in a screening position until dawn because your units' attacks have repeatedly failed to damage the patrollers at night, the screen will likely slow the strike force's crucial advance at dawn, which can easily cause you to run out of time.

Much depends on the bait, detailed in the earlier post. If the bait fails to reach his station during turn 8, or if too many foes screen Delfador's approach in the northwest before turn 9, well, sorry, too bad. Through no great fault of yours, such chances can thrust your goal just out of reach.

And of course, if Delfador's lightning bolts all happen to miss Mokolo during the final western strike, well, this strategy was never designed to overcome that.

Still, the present strategy, correctly executed, is indeed likely to succeed given only more or less average luck, or even given slightly worse than average luck. One or two events do indeed have to fall as they ought in your favor, but none is improbable. Fortune is likely your friend.

At any rate, the present strategy is the best I know to attain Simyr.

[nudrat]

I watched the replay. Two enchantresses on the first scenario is quite impressive. Just as your detailed explanations are. I will try this strategy one day, since I started to play HttT on hard and I'm stuck at Elensefar.