Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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white_haired_uncle
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by white_haired_uncle »

4. I'm getting nothing from talking to the children. No fame, nothing. See attached save for easy test.

5. Yes, yes, yes. I could see the tile I was supposed to go to, but it was one of those right on the edge of the map that you can see but not move to.

8. Leather or fur maybe (large rats at least?). I'm starting to rethink scavenging, I usually like to get it early so I collect a lot of stuff as I play, but now I'm thinking for as much as it costs (a lot, in relative terms early in the game) it's probably not worth pursuing. Except maybe for doors, the provide too much, IMO some woodpieces would be more reasonable.

10. That's the wesnoth log.

When you complete a mission, it'd be nice if it would switch to "infinite move" mode, like the world maps. On a slow machine, sometimes changing turns takes a little time, which can be kind of annoying when you spend several turns just to get back to 'return'.

Pickpocketing guests in a tavern takes all of your stamina. Seems extreme to me. You usually get just about enough to pay for a room to restore it. Also, it's inconsistent, in that whether you have 1 stamina or 1000, it takes all of it and returns about the same amount of gold.

I'm heavily wounded and poisoned - I lose 4 HP per turn (that's "heavily wounded"???). Seems like I should at least lose the max of the two penalties. But then, since this stupid sand viper cast poison on me every single turn, I think I'll just wait to heal until after the encounter.

The errors I'm seeing about drops are not when loot drops on top of loot. I often see them on the first kill of the encounter. See attached png. Actually, I don't think I've seen one when dropping "loot" (as in scavenging), I'm pretty sure I only see them when a killed enemy drops "stuff" (like a stone). [Just tested this, killed a sandviper and it dropped loot, then another took its place. After the second kill, I picked up the loot from both from the same tile]

Sandvipers: I've now determined that it's counting the number of encounters that I initiate, not the total number of sand vipers I kill. If I kill sandvipers in a random event, I get no credit. If I attack a sandviper and kill two of them in the encounter, I get credit for one. And now I just attacked one, but in the encounter I fought a single dune blademaster and got credit for a sandviper kill.
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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi, thanks again for your reports.

4. Yup, I see it now. Once you reach 50 caretaking (I don't know how to name that skill correctly), nothing happens. This is due to the code.
This is fixed now. You will receive an additional reward now, not only fame.

5. Yeah, I think the random mission is not taking in regard the map size. I will change that.

8. Ok, Mutant rats will now spawn Leather, Fat Rats and Fattys fur. You can extract poison from the infected rat specimens. Dogs will spawn leather and the fluffy dogs will even spawn fur. Scavenging will get better, once you face more dangerous monsters, for example when facing woses.

10. Sandvipers - this could be as you are fighting groups of sandvipers. So there is indeed no kill count, but an encounter count - like you scared them off.
There several events like this, where you have to kill groups of people. Maybe I`ll make an undead pirate event, where ships with undead haunt the seas.

Pickpocketing - will readjust the stamina costs.

Poison and heavily wounded: yes - 4 hp is heavily wounded, but the poison should be drained, too. I think it could be a core problem, that is is just showing the first one.

Error when dropping - will have to recheck than.

Where did you encounter the Blit error messages?
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stevea68
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by stevea68 »

Heindal wrote: May 14th, 2022, 10:30 am Hi stevea68,

thank you for your comments and playing. I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

As for your proposals:

I could add a 'tank' as a summon and maybe with a fear aura, maybe a kind of protector orc with a shield (maybe I will use the word 'Schildwall' for this unit (Wall of Shields). A shaman with lurker could also be added, or something like a 'totem'. There are however already so many summons in this game, with summon undead armies, armies of snakes and the 'Hameln' spell to summon rats. Additionally there are a couple of mercs, which are hidden for example in free temples and will join your course for a price. Maybe some of those (such the Ogre) could fit as a tank.

There are already many traps and trap that improves the enemies around it, would be more like a totem.
It could be done however, maybe in a new version.

Note that there is already an ability to 'sense traps'. It will show all traps on the map, I would need to overwork that, but at the moment I see no way to split this up into levels, as it is hard to get - except you start as a 'Dwarf' in RPG Mode. In older versions your units were able to set traps, I'm not quite sure if I changed that, but it would be worth to reactivate that.

Side note: I always wanted to add something like ambushes and an ability 'sense danger' to avoid them.

As for the bugs in random dungeons, hm I must say I tested this a lot (just like 20 times, not like 100 times) and as I never got one of these lua mistakes, I did not believe that there was a problem. Maybe it something to do with the new encounters, which can be placed partially on the map (I liked the effect, because it was so random). I will see what I can do about that.


Thanks again

Heindal
Your add-on / mod continues to surprise me. Yes, I just discovered the summoning and mercs and so I hopped back on here to almost apologize. You've already got a lot of it in there. Great stuff and I just started exploring the northern continent.

Yes, totem stuff could be fun - basically a trap. I like that traps can be cast at a distance. Interesting on the 'sense danger' ability ... maybe something like it pauses movement when you spot and enemy but instead maybe it could do that if you move next to an unspotted trap.

Of course, as you said, these ideas have tradeoffs in programming and game complexity or extra menu options etc. and I keep discovering that you've already got a ton of detail in it. Thanks much :)

On the Lua errors, I believe one of them WAS from a random teleport location on a map. I also get ones saying there are multiple definitions for the name "gold" (or multiple attributes?) and for the random drops it seemed like maybe a random index variable was of an incorrect data type (like a string versus integer reference). Next time I see them, I'll try to grab a screen shot. It's still quite playable and I switched to the #16 version which does it less often.

----

Just an some more ideas you could kick around for the summoning - maybe a 'summon beast' or summon undead (possibly consumes a bone dust as a spell component?) spell that summons a rather random creature at a location (slightly randomized stats / resists / abilities). Possibly the spell could (instead) sometimes summon a piece of armor / jewelry / weapon etc. instead ... the basic idea could be that someone could piecemeal an army together taking advantage of whatever ends up showing up (like the magic portal at the castle with random loot).

Partly the reason why I make the suggestion is because it wouldn't necessarily add much complexity to the menu system - one spell could potentially do many things, but specifically what isn't very certain! hehe :D

----

As some ideas for specialized / randomly summoned creatures - here are a few ideas:

1) Firebird - flies fast with skirmisher ability, but has low HPs and is summoned wounded or constantly takes self damage from immolation each turn. The basic idea is that it's a lot like a fireball and has a few turns to quickly fly off and make a few strikes.

2) Sapling - A small treant with minor regeneration (+4 / turn) and it can't move on desert or cave squares.

3) Bramblewall - sort of like the 'wall' idea above - it's mostly just got HPs and a small damage melee attack, but movement costs on any non-forest type hex make it effectively stationary, except in forests (maybe randomly teleport it and hope you get lucky and it lands on a forest hex? hehe ;D ... or just hide behind it in the desert)

4) Leech - fast movement in water / swamps and a melee drain attack

5) Rock golem - Another primarily 'wall' type creature but it can slowly move in mountains or caves etc.

6) Sand worm - in the movie Dune there were those sand worms that could basically swim through sand. Possibly it dies or takes lots of damage on any wet location? Probably melee but maybe has a ranged spit?

....

Anyway, great game, Sir. I'm still playing it and experimenting with the game mechanics and keep finding new things about it every day. Thanks again for the fun :)
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi again stevea78,

considering summoning. You can get a so called 'Grimoire'. This will allow you to call Epic Beasts or even design an own summoning spell by choosing a 'unit' and type in their. I've finished my working on totems already and they work, they are available as summoning as well as an item. So you could basically use them like traps. But they are units that can be attacked, even so with a high resistance, except fire. Alchemists can craft totems using darkwood and mana. Other than that you can use a summoning spell to call them. I also made Schildwall and the lurker unit and integrated them into the game.

A lot of these things you mentioned are already in the game. The summoners in the south can teach you the skill to summon elementals (rock golems, fire-elementals, air elementals). There are also some hidden spells in ancient books revealing 'army summonings' and random summonings for the undead. As for 'Dune', I made a sandworm called sandviper. These are nasty encounters in the desert. You can also summon them by using the Grimoire.

I hope you will like the new discoveries, such as designing own items and spells.
Have fun.
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stevea68
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by stevea68 »

Wow, you're continuing to amaze me Heindal *salue and bow* :) Very cool and yes, I've been realizing a lot of these ideas are already esconded / hidden around in the game. I'm having fun exploring and it appears I'll need a bit more experience with it under my belt to make better suggestions.

The Grimoire sounds like fun. Yeah, haven't found it yet. Awesome to hear about the totems. They seem like good ideas for using in tactical combat ... I used to love playing as a Shaman in World of Warcraft or as the Engineer in Asheron's Call 2 because you could build up the terrain in an area. I noticed you had a way to modify terrain in the game, which could be a fun strategy to explore ... maybe run through a corridor, drop an obstruction and the rest up behind it - almost like being able to create doors ;)

The lizardman shaman sounds like fun to try. What version of the game has these updates? I noticed that Lua error mentioned above was one of the same ones I'd encountered and you fixed the issue with the map size for randomized teleports ... and you already have "sand worms" Very cool. Yes, I need to explore more.

----

A few more ideas you might kick around -

1) A craftable catapult (I assume using stone and wood) that is like a merc. Probably slow with a blunt ranged attack.

2) 'Quests' (sort of) in infinite dungeons (you may already have some equivalent) - maybe it could just be things like a random encounter that spawns a treasure at some coordinate on the map? A possibility could be to have those "treasure" triggers staged, and so you could follow the coordinates around to gain larger / more valuable loots? (Or maybe that could be a general mechanic for treasures? - The "drop" from a treasure (with some % chance) could similarly be like finding a map to an even larger treasure?) For example, say there's a 15% chance (+ Luck?) that a treasure will also contain "clues" to finding a larger treasure? With a good Luck stat it could lead to treasure hunting forays?)

3) Some sort of component that has a (player alterable as a game setting?) maximum allowed inventory count ... I admit enjoying the freedom of having thousands of such and such, but it could be fun to have a component (or maybe even 2 or 3) with a some maximum carryable limit, in order to be able to implement a form of challenge for dungeon delving or wandering around in the wild with limited supplies. An idea could be to use a component that can be collected / foraged 'in the field' ... so for example, things that mobs might drop (leather, bone dust) or be foraged using the campsite could be interesting to add limits to, so that for long / remote 'adventures', it could be important to collect the along the way. Maybe even have a zone or area where that is quite useful.

4) A summonable NPC / "allied" Imp that maybe costs 5 mana but regens your mana over time? I don't know what sort of AI is available, but maybe it's just like a weak pet that tries to follow you around but also easily agros on things and tends to run off and get killed? haha ... but alternately, if you keep it alive, it regens your mana over time ... just a fun idea. Maybe with limits to mana potions enabled, imps could be quite useful for a caster.

... Anyway, great add-on Heindal. I'll do more exploring. It's easy for me to ramble on and on, so I need to restrain myself some ha :)

Enjoy your day!
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by stevea68 »

*a few minutes later*

... I attempted to restrain myself from rambling, but failed! ;)

Here's another idea that might be interesting combining a few things together - imagine if the game mechanics tended to automatically / randomly lead the player on pseudo "quests", so that someone could go out to dig up a treasure and waalaa - you get the treasure, AND happen to find a treasure map with it! Alternately, maybe a treasure also reveals a local monster nest ... and that inside the monster nest encounter could be finding another treasure map! =)

Along similar lines to making more 'wandering around' / 'away' missions could be to add more spawn(er)s for infinite dungeon levels ... for example, like the totems, maybe a "monster" spawned in an infinite dungeon is actually more of a creature that summons monsters next to it, which might wander around.

The reason why I mention that is because I've enjoyed the mushrooms growing and random wandering monsters in the sewers under the Capital city. It's fun to find various defensive locations and then defend against the "hoard" (ok, so that's an exaggeration, but you probably get the basic idea).

So, if infinite dungeon levels could have such continual regeneration of monsters, as well as possibly drops that could trigger quests on that level, it could be fun to play on a single level of an infinite dungeon, collecting limited resources and build defensive camps etc. and then when it's time to change the scenery - head on to the next level! =)

Yes, that could be quite a challenge to build into the game mechanics in a well balanced way and might be difficult to adjust for player proficiency (though the difficulty setting for the game could be used to help).

... Congratulations on your coding proficiency and detail you put into the game. It's my new favorite pastime. I'll try to organize ideas better for a reply later because it's easy for me to get excited and just keep "typing out loud"!

See ya, Sir
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by stevea68 »

I tried to post a screenshot here but couldn't find an option to upload a image, but for the Lua errors (which it appears some of them you have already fixed - I can try the update later) - I went into the sewers, not a random level and quite quickly (maybe the first rat drop) got these two errors:

<Lua error> lua/wml-tags.lua:111: attempt to index a numvber value (local 'names')
set traceback:
lua/wml-tags.lua:111: in local 'cmd'
lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
lua/wml-flow.lua:19: in local 'cmd'
lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_even_commands'
ua/wml-flow:5: in function <lua/wml-flow:4>

and when I tried to pick up the loot drop, it gave the message about hurray gold! but the was this error

[gold] missing required amount = attribute.

I'm not very proficient with the add-on system for Wesnoth, so maybe just let me know if/when there's another version to try out.

Thanks again
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I tried to post a screenshot here but couldn't find an option to upload a image
image/replay/save/text files auto upload as attachments if you drag&drop them into the white box of the forum's create new post screen.
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by white_haired_uncle »

stevea68 wrote: May 17th, 2022, 5:26 pm I tried to post a screenshot here but couldn't find an option to upload a image
Use the Post Reply button, not the Quick Reply box, then the attachments tab,
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Yeah, use post reply for that Steve:
Screeni.png
You can even place them inline.

About your suggestions. Most of them already exist, as each random dungeon has a place of interest which is diced when the dungeon is created. This could be a boss monster, a faction which really spawns monster, dwarf pirates who dig out a treasure (giant X included), or people that are kidnapped, random npcs who spawn in dungeons etc. There is only one of these spots in each random dungeon. Additionally since the encounters upgrade, you will find hidden ruins, goblin villages, temples and shrines, forgotten throne rooms etc. there can be several of these special locations on every map.

You can also receive optional quests by talking to npcs and this even can be triggered by random events. Usually these missions are well paid, as you even get an advance payment, based on your charisma. The chance for getting a random quest when talking to npcs is increased by luck. It can be everything from: Oh no, a vicious hare has wounded me and I seek revenge, please kill any hare you find out there and your mission is successful; to: Deliver a parcel to place x.

Considering the infinite dungeons - you can mine by using a pick and mine walls. These walls will deliver nothing, with a low skill but with the time you will receive coal, iron and even mithril(!). The other thing is campfires. Campfire can be made with sulfur or even spells. These allow cooking and brewing everywhere even in dungeons and you can even find some ingredients in dungeons - for example water in most of the dungeons. Each infinite dungeon has a unique secret special place, which can be ...
Spoiler:
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by stevea68 »

Well, wow! I feel like I just entered an 'infinite dungeon' :) Yes, the game seems to continually be more complex and have more details than I had expected ... Kudos, Sirs!

As an idea for some play balancing and to help introduce new players to various game mechanics, here's an idea for loot drops.

There are a few items that are especially useful at early stages in the game (or even later on), like herbs and maybe weeds or something simple like leather armor. Alternately, there might be some (consumable?) item that a player may not realize the significance of. An idea is to have loot drops check how much of something a player has and tend to encourage drops of basic items that a player may not have (or have few of).

So, for example, herbs and weeds seem like great basic items that a player could always be able to make use of having at least a few, so maybe something in the code, when checking loot drops could "say" (I edited a little of the WML but don't know it well), so I will just use pseudo-code instead

(upon looting a drop)
if random(100)<(15+luck) then (*if 15%+luck*) then
if random(4)>#herbs then herbs=herbs+1 (*the player tends to be given herbs if they have few/none up to 4 herbs)
if random(3)>#weeds then weeds=weeds+1 (same for weeds, up to 3 weeds)
...
etc.

Other basic or encouraged items could be added to the list.

This would tend to 'promote' players having a minimum quantity of some items that might be considered to be 'basic' ... though I admit it would be sad to discover that someone thought it was the ONLY way of acquiring them! :D

Ah, it will never be quite perfect will it?

Awesome job guys and thanks for the info on posting images. I can try that next time.

The infinite dungeons sound like another great place to explore, Heindal. I DID find some quite cool events (and I remember a random merchant encounter especially) in them.

Alright, Imma gonna 'head back in' and see what pops up. Thanks again! *salutes and heads off into the "unknown"* :)

Best wishes
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by white_haired_uncle »

The image messages are from the wesnoth log file.

I started over several times, using different races, difficulties, and disadvantages, and never got a class.

And isn't a goblin supposed to start with a doghouse? I didn't.

I'm on day 1437 and I'm level 36. My enemy already has 73,000,000 gold (and the castle, and the diamond mine...). I'm at the point where I'm floating around the 100,000 gold mark (without aforementioned cheating). I've seen this before, and it seems really severe. I haven't spent anything to try to slow him down (this is about the point when I normally would, but at this point why?).

The 'priest' ability is undocumented.

When I work in a building, if I can make multiple stuff, but I don't have enough space on the cart, I'd prefer it made as many as it could.

Playing music has (had?) same 'uses all stamina' issue as pickpocket guests.

In this event, should the enemy boss be trapped (surrounded by impassable tiles)? It's nice, as I could call a couple mercs and equip them safely, but weird. Also, notice where the assassin shows up, I assumed he'd be in the castle.
Capture.PNG
Random dungeon secret place "Cave Sea" - pretty sure both objectives are wrong. And one for infinite dungeon itself. And the Center.

I found Timlador, though I wasn't looking for him,
Spoiler:
. Sort of. There was a talk label, but no unit image, and he said he'd join me, but didn't.

I've found a few ancient tomes, but they don't show up in the consumables. Could one actually have been a psalm? I had one more of those than I expected. BTW, in consumables it said psalm() instead of psalm(3).

stevea68, there is a way to get herbs that I'm pretty sure is already based on luck. But, in the early game I usually don't have much luck, so I just rely on the other stuff I can get for free.
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by stevea68 »

Hi again, Heindal.

1) A user interface suggestion would be to add a delay to the text messages for random events, or maybe have the turn end. Basically, I miss most all the random even messages because when it's in auto-turn mode and I'm quickly clicking to select and move my character, the mouse click clears the message.

2) Adding a way to enter the dungeon from within the castle map would be nice.

3) I've noticed it a bit inconvenient to have to move off of a hex and then back on to it to "trigger the location event". For example, to access the option menus at the castle or a city, having a menu option to "enter or access current location" would be convenient.

4) A game mechanic for the charm to consider could be to have the % chance of a charm be affected by monster level.

Great game and I'll keep exploring.
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by white_haired_uncle »

stevea68 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 3:57 am Hi again, Heindal.

1) A user interface suggestion would be to add a delay to the text messages for random events, or maybe have the turn end. Basically, I miss most all the random even messages because when it's in auto-turn mode and I'm quickly clicking to select and move my character, the mouse click clears the message.

2) Adding a way to enter the dungeon from within the castle map would be nice.

3) I've noticed it a bit inconvenient to have to move off of a hex and then back on to it to "trigger the location event". For example, to access the option menus at the castle or a city, having a menu option to "enter or access current location" would be convenient.

4) A game mechanic for the charm to consider could be to have the % chance of a charm be affected by monster level.

Great game and I'll keep exploring.
#1: I do that constantly as well. Another option would be to add a list of the history of (important-ish) popup messages that the player could review if they want to (might also help with collecting info for troubleshooting).

BTW, sometimes when I have a long way to go, and I'm not really worried about I'll use 'n' to select my character, then click on the destination. Repeatedly. I just tested this, and hitting 'n' doesn't close an event message, so maybe that would provide a way to avoid missing them (though I still like history better).

#3: I was going to request that today and forgot. There are things I often do, like check my inventory, between visit two building. So I step off the keep for a moment, an encounter triggers, and I've forgotten what I was working on.

#4. Agree. When I can, I abuse charm like crazy. Another option might be a negative effect for failure, like spawning a second enemy of the same type.
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Well, I need to find and build some test cases for the problem with the lua errors. Some of the lua errors (such as all things related to gold) should occur anymore, as I used regex to find the cases, but maybe I made a mistake :hmm:.

1. I have an idea for that, by adding a confirm button, however 'm not quite sure it will work, as sometimes you even skip random event with choices.
2. Entering the dungeon from the castle is make-able. I was thinking about some kind of prison and some experimental chambers for the 'little dark lords' among the players.
3. Yeah, I have a fix for that, but it is cheesy. Will see about that. So far I haven't seen any campaign, that had this.
4. Charmed needs to be reworked than. Maybe reducing the hitchance to 5% and or give it charge (so it really hurts when you are trying to tame a dragon, 'How to drain your Dragontrainer' :lol: :roll:).

Considering the encounter - its true. Solution:
p.png
p.png (255.14 KiB) Viewed 257 times
:P

I rechecked the classes, it was indeed a bug, which was ignored in previous versions.
However it caused the loop of the classes to end before it even started. It is fixed now.

Priest is just a random-ability of npcs that combines cure and healing.

I will rework Pickpocket and Music.

I will ad a sabotage option for the competitors, making a mission where you destroy buildings or maybe even steal gold from your opponent.
(maybe adding an option for bankrobbers)

PS: Your goblin game is broken :p.
PS PS: I will make an upload as soon as possible.
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