Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by zookeeper »

Paranoid wrote: May 6th, 2018, 12:38 pm I'm doin v1.14.0 on medium now. The scenario was much harder in 1.12 and 1.10. I'm missing reinforcements and the duelist from the cave. Are these changes intended?
Yes. The Fencers and Duelist she now recruits should hopefully provide a more interesting challenge than the cave trap and surprise reinforcements, although it's entirely possible the overall balance has tilted towards being easier than before (in which case we'll of course try to increase the difficulty again).
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Britannicus
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Britannicus »

zookeeper wrote: May 6th, 2018, 8:58 pmYes. The Fencers and Duelist she now recruits should hopefully provide a more interesting challenge than the cave trap and surprise reinforcements, although it's entirely possible the overall balance has tilted towards being easier than before (in which case we'll of course try to increase the difficulty again).
I'd definitely say it's more interesting. Also seeing how HttT is a beginner campaign, it seems more appropriate for this scenario to have a calculable challenge instead of seemingly random waves of strong reinforcements being spawned in.
ChristTrekker
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by ChristTrekker »

I miss the hidden reinforcements. They seemed like a realistic plot point. Three units (IIRC) isn't an insurmountable force, even for new players.
LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Easy, get rid of Li'sar

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Interesting. I already know it isn't the last time I'm going to go against Li'sar.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- To be honest, with this update, I feel like there is no challege at all. The duelist no longer appears nor Li'sar receives her reinforcements.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 4 (if they left things like they were, then it'd be 8)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I'd revert it to older versions where you had to battle against the duelist and more soldiers.
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mxb2001
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by mxb2001 »

[quote="Content Feedback" post_id=46601 time=1097428237 user_id=123454]
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
[/quote]

Easy, 1.12
3
Clear, kill the princessa (well strike to sundue as if she were a AD&D dragon rotfl)
Nice
None, am getting better at BfW and with a little planning ran through this in one go.
8 great field for horsemen to charge and gain some xp, made a lancer
None
01/01/01
Konrad2
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.0, Champion (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

None. Especially since the Duelist and the bodyguards were removed since the last time I've played.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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Poison
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Poison »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.14.7, Champion (Challenging), 358 starting gold.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3. Some fencers and duelists are no match to a silver mage and Delfador the Great!

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping the Lisar forces out of forest.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7, winning is always fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Add some secret in the water area, maybe some unit at the village at 34,39.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Definitely not.
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Zrevnur
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.9 Challenging (in Ironman mode), played several times
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. This is preparation for 'The valley of Death' scenario. So its important to maximize gold.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. Not interesting, and I dont like the storyline.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. Map control is important here.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No idea.
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:10 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Normal/Wesnoth 1.15.12+dev
2. 6/10
3. Crystal clear
4. 7/10
5. Nothing really.
6. 6/10
7. What happened to that "surprise"? That enemy Duelist popping up? I remember Lisar recruiting Lieutenants but she just doesn't anymore? Also, why are Li'sar's stats so absurd? She deals the same melee as a Royal Guard but is sturdier.
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mal_shubertal
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. very straightforward
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting. You get introduced to Lisar, setting up the next story arc.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
skirmishers and protecting my backfield
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Fighting the lvl 2 loyalist troops is interesting, make you think about time of day differently than against the usual orc/undead enemies, as does the 20% resistance to arcane that they all get. Still, very straightforward, not much novelty here.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More stuff happening on the edges of the map. It's so huge, but you end up just going diagonally right across it. It's easier than I remember, when she used to get these huge, brutal waves of reinforcements over and over, but that did add a different element of strategy and timing that I miss.
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lujo86
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by lujo86 »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.16.8
Highest

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

1

I seem to remember this map having duelists coming out of mine to hit you in the back, and without them the map is surprisingly and almost laughably easy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Fine enough. I don't think I actually hate the storyline, cliches and all, it's just that the language used is way too stilted.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Nothing whatsoever. Without the surprise reinforcements the map presents no challenge at all. You send one rider to grab villages north, a captain and 2 fighters to hold the northern crossing and kill stuff / harass across the river whenever the opponent sends a cavalry that way, send a merman or two to grab villages in the south... and that's it, all the other enemy units end up trickling towards the southern crossing where you have both the river and the forest edge to beat them up at, giving you a 2-layer excellent defensive poistion. When the princess runs out of troops you just push across the river into more woods and converge on her.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1. This map doesn't work without the reinforcements, it's way too heavily tilted in the player's favor. It came in handy to power-level select units for the upcoming Valley, but that's just practical, not fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Put the reinforcements, and thus the whole point of the map, back into it, so that it's not unintentionally the easiest map of the campaign?
Last edited by lujo86 on February 2nd, 2023, 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ElvishMystical0
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by ElvishMystical0 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Versions 1.12 to 1.16 mainly Easy and Medium. This feedback relates specifically to 1.16 Medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I'd give this a 5 or 6. Loyalists on flat terrain isn't a pushover but it's not too difficult.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear given the fact that it's a variation of Defeat Enemy Leader.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This would actually be a very good development in the story if our version of the story of what happened in the battle with Prince Eldred was shared between Konrad and Delfador. The basic premise of the entire narrative or story is sound. We're eight scenarios into the campaign so nearly half way through so it's time enough to introduce the major conflict and crisis. The background and context is also sound to a point, because having defeated the Orcs and liberated Elensefar this Konrad and Delfador is becoming a threat to the monarchy.

The flaw or the weakness is of course the lack of development in Konrad's character. Surely if Konrad was raised by Elves and Delfador in some forest Konrad would at least have his own perspective on what happened and his own opinion and arguments as to why he is the rightful heir and not Li'sar. The way it looks now is that Delfador has some hidden agenda and Konrad is just a pawn in some plan or scheme. This jars with him supposed to be a noble commander.

What is lacking is some kind of vision or even a revolutionary ideal. If you look at the other leaders in the other campaigns you have both a story and a character. Take for example Kapou'e in Son of the Black Eye. Kapou'e is consumed by a desire to avenge the assassination of his father Black Eye Karun. Ardonna in Secrets of the Ancients is consumed by overcoming death and trying to uncover the secrets of eternal life. Erlonas is trying to figure out why Orcs are raiding the forests. By contrast Konrad seems to be this young man who doesn't seem to have any dimension to his character or know that much.

For me this is the scenario where the anger at the injustice of being denied his accession to the throne needs to come out a lot more. So far we just have Delfador's word that Konrad wants to be King. We need more.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Two words, Fencers and Duellists. I'm not denying that Pikemen on flat terrain are a significant issue, especially if you have horse mounted units going into battle, but Fencers and Duellists who are skirmishers and have better defenses almost everywhere are a pain in the [insert body part].
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I'm going to average this at a 5. Maybe it's the way the game is designed, but you get the feeling that this is an unfair game and the odds are stacked against you. I'm trying to level Elvish Archers and I manage to, but I lost a lot of close to levelling units, mostly Archers. This is where I learned that when you have RNG the traits of level 1 units are meaningless. This bugged me, because Elvish Archers are arguably the best level 1 ranged unit in Wesnoth, particularly in forests and on hills.

I feel you need Shamen for this scenario to make it work. Or maybe you need an ability such as slow to counter the skirmisher ability of Fencers and Duellists.

But once the Fencers and Duellists are dealt with the enjoyment of this scenario increases.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Outside the changes to the storyline no other suggestions.
Orek
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Orek »

Content Feedback wrote: (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) Challenging (=Champion=Hardest) in 1.14.17 on permadeath
(2) 5 (12th most difficult = 12th easiest)
... [Difficult] 2, 16, 14, 4, 9, 6, 5b, 10, 13, 12, 23, 8, 7, 3, 15, 17, 19c, 22, 1, 20b, 11, 24, 18 [Easy]
(3) Very clear
(4) "I surrender! Don’t hurt me, impostor." sounds provocative when Li'sar says it to people who can kill you, but maybe it is a part of her character.
(5) It was often necessary to slow enemy level 2 units with Elvish Shamans.
(6) 4 (16th most fun = 8th most boring)
... [Fun] 2, 1, 6, 9, 5b, 4, 16, 15, 23, 3, 12, 14, 10, 24, 13, 8, 7, 19c, 20b, 11, 17, 22, 18 [Boring]
(7) None

YouTube Link: Run 1 Run 2 Run 3
Walkthrough: HttT walkthrough (hardest, permadeath, v1.14.17) + General campaign guides (Replays for all scenarios can be downloaded from here.)
JL42
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Re: Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 – I seem to remember this scenario being a lot harder in earlier versions (around 6 difficulty) – like maybe the Princess has fewer troops now. Not sure if it has actually been tamped down, or if I just got lucky or had better skills or whatever. In any case, the mild difficulty here is welcome because it provides more opportunity to rebuild and hoard gold in preparation for the upcoming Valley of Death.
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear; moderately interesting. The princess through these initial maps where we first meet her has a clear persona as a kind of cynical but honorable and effective commander, which is great but seems to kind of fall apart in weird ways later on (after we hit the caves in future scenarios). Konrad still comes across consistently as a inexperienced and perhaps overeager young leader who just wants to do nice things.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The only real concern is the enemy skirmishers; have to keep a tight line or otherwise get your wounded units well back out of range.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 – It's a fairly straightforward map; the main interest here is the storyline development.
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

The maps and storyline here are well-made and polished, though not as completely epic as some of the other campaigns. I like that it is lengthy, giving you time to develop your army, and gradually introduces many different terrains and unit types. This seems like a great beginner campaign since it's fairly easy and the early scenarios are framed as a kind of mentoring environment for the young hero. (However, it's a bit strange that some of the basic dialogue tips, like "hey, loyal units don't require upkeep!" are just now arriving, after I've already played through several previous campaigns without that advice.) There are some glitches that can come up in the Scepter of Fire scenario, and some of the princess-related dialogue around scenarios 17–21 felt a bit confusing and unbelievable (more specific comments in the relevant threads). This campaign is very close to full marks, but due to those few lingering issues and the lack of any real epic blow-you-away maps I'm going to rate it 4 out of 5.
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