Spearman promotions

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WanderingHero
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Spearman promotions

Post by WanderingHero »

Whats your thought on the promotion screen? First time I saw it I freaked out and became paralyzed by indecision.
At first I tried Halbierdier, wanting a range spear attack, but thinking Javelinier was useless because it couldn't promote... i learnt the error of my ways when my Halbierder died from lack of range attacks.
Javelinier are decent if you desperately need range power NOW or a little later (I found them useful for baiting orc assains), but my favourite are swordsman, who are strong, tough and promote to the super tanky Royal Guard.
What are Halbierder and their promotion for?

And what are your thoughts on the 3 units?
Velensk
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Velensk »

Personally, I'm not sure why the javalineer resists pierce as well as pikemen. The fact that it does makes it so that I'd rarely pick the pikeman for mutiplayer as the ranged attack is very useful.

Royal guards are the most versitile because of the extra movement point they get and the fact that they resist two of the more common damage types you'l run into.

Halaberdiers are a little tougher than swordsmen in the hitpoints department and have both piercing and blade damage but are slower and resist only pierce. I think they would be a touch more useful if orcs were not such a common campaign enemy as their archers can ignore your pierce resistance with fire arrows. They are however actually my favorite of the lot though. Against most archers these will tank a lot better than the royal guard and though the royal guard can hold the line against most enemy infantry better these things can still do well and make the enemy hurt.

In general, my quick spearmen become pikemen and my non-quick become swordsmen as the 6 mp threshold is important but I'll make a few of the quick ones javalineers or swordsmen instead for campaigns where I'll be fighting tons of orcs.
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Dixie
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Dixie »

Depends on the situation. Swordsmen are tougher, yes, but have a more cmmon/less useful damage type (blade). If fighting against a cavalery heavy opponent or against drake, you'll definitely want an Halebardier. Javeliniers (is that the correct spelling?) are useful too because 1) they get range, 2) they are more powerful than the average lv2 (at the cost of no more promotion) and 3) will only cost two upkeep. They are a good all-around unit, which has not only decent melee, but decent ranged, too, while most other loyalist units re either one or the other (mages, bowmen to a lesser extent). Also, they are the spearman's RIPWLIB advancement.

I used to think that un-promotable lv2s weren't worth it either in my beginnings, and that thought most certainly spawns from cmpaign play (because those lv2 truly shine in multiplayer), but they still have some uses and are not to be discarded so easily, imho.

Edit: ninja'd, but still
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WanderingHero
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by WanderingHero »

I understaood the value of Javeliniers (initally thinking they were useless until I read the philosphy and tried them myself). I didn't understand the values of Halbierders, but now I have a better idea.

Whats best in South guard("hard")? So far I have 2 Royal guards and a Swordsman.
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Colouredbox
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Colouredbox »

Well in campaigns I usually go for swordman because royal guards are awesome. Sometimes I take halberbierder if I need melee pierce damage or pierce resistance. In campaigns I've gotten like 2 javelineers in total because I already got bowmen for ranged pierce and halderbierders for melee pierce.

In multiplayer I actually choose javelineer the most. Versus undead or orc would usually go for swordman.
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Aelaris
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Aelaris »

I'm not a campaign player, here's my thoughts:

Swordmen are blade superiority fighters - their favorite target is enemy grunts, not entirely unlike cavalry. In fact, you could see them as unmounted cavalry fairly easily.

Halberdiers are built to be anti-horse and be pierce superiority fighters - their most wonderfully favored target is an idiot charging horseman, but most of the time means shrugging off arrows and churning through spearmen. A good deal more defensive than Swordmen.

Between these two, I generally try to pick whichever is more applicable to the battle. However, since you are all campaign-y, I suppose get a spread and recall whoever is better suited for the battle?

I haven't used a lot of Javelineers, as I feel that in situations where I would want to use them, I would be betters served by archers. Of course, I don't know since I don't try.

(Unrelated: Javelineers spellchecks to lovelinesses somehow. I am amused.)
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Skrim
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Skrim »

In campaigns, I make quick Spearmen into Pikemen and non-quick ones into Swordsmen.
That way they'll both have 6 moves at level 3.

They both have their uses; Royal Guards are certainly better against the hordes of Orcs and Trolls seen in campaigns, but Halberdiers I'd have to day are superior in a few situations - the Drake and Saurian missions in TRoW, tanking Chocobones and Skeleton Archers, and most other archers for that matter.

I don't use Javes in campaigns, since Spearmen reach level 3 easily enough, and if I want ranged pierce I can use Bowman types.


In MP I'd never use Pikemen. Javelineers have the same resists and almost the same melee power (8-3 v. 10-3), and have a nice strong ranged attack as well. Swordsmen are more useful against in some scenarios (v. Orcs and Undead), but Javes are otherwise better .
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powershot
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by powershot »

I usually use Royal Guards and it TSG (the south guard) I upgraded spear man to royal guard in the first 1-3 scenarios. I rarely if ever use Javeliniers. Now that I look at Halbierdier he does more damage than royal guard and has an extra attack. He looks very useful. I usually don't use these guys because I like my own factions. They do more damage.
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monochromatic
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by monochromatic »

Swordsmen are also more useful against outlaw-heavy Knalgans (or even Knalgans in general). The extra strike is terribly useful.
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powershot
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by powershot »

monochromatic wrote:Swordsmen are also more useful against outlaw-heavy Knalgans (or even Knalgans in general). The extra strike is terribly useful.
I must note thieves and the like are hurt by blades, A LOT! I made a new race I haven't posted that are hurt 10% more by blade,pierce, and impact. But still, with thieves, Hurt With Blades!
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MRDNRA
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by MRDNRA »

In a campaign, unless I know I'm going to be facing greater than a small amount of cavalry based units (or drakes as well), I almost exclusively pick swordsmen. Yes, their individual strikes to marginally less damage than a pikeman, but due to the extra strike, assuming a unit has 0% resist to both blade and pierce, and all your strikes hit (rare I know, but this is a theoretical situation) then you will do more damage, hence, greater damage potential overall. Also, IIRC, swordsman have more HP than pikemen, and they only require a very similar amount of xp to level up.

I know that javelineers have the added extra with ranged damage, but in campaigns I have barely ever, possibly not at all, levelled up a spearman to a javelineer. I know in TRoW campaign it is suggested to have a few to counter saurians ranged attacks, but that is very situational, as a good deal of the time, given javelineer's pierce resistance, aren't the saurians surely more likely to pick units without pierce resist that also do not have a ranged attack. Given that saurians also resist pierce damage, I would say (and I admit I'm no expert) that Swordsmen backed up by healers are still a better choice: more strikes against a vulnerability at the expense of a few free HP lost in defense assuming saurians use ranged attack.

Sorry, just realised I ended up slightly off topic, and I'm also not denying that in MP having ranged damage is much more likely to be useful given that few units in MP are ever likely to reach level 3, more just a case of me typing what I thought as I thought it, for a very situationally dependant decision.
Velensk
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Velensk »

Just looked up the stats, turns out I gave a bit of misinformation, royal guards do have slightly more hp than Halberdiers rather than the other way around (pikemen/swordsmen are even though), however in addition to having both blade and pierce Halberdiers do slightly more damage (and have first strike) (swordsmen have a slightly higher damage potential than pikemen).

Since we're giving pure statistics for the moment, Halabierders have 40% resistance concentrated in pierce while Royal guards have their resistances split 20/20 betwen blade and impact.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Spearman promotions

Post by Maiklas3000 »

MRDNRA wrote:I know that javelineers have the added extra with ranged damage, but in campaigns I have barely ever, possibly not at all, levelled up a spearman to a javelineer. I know in TRoW campaign it is suggested to have a few to counter saurians ranged attacks, but that is very situational, as a good deal of the time, given javelineer's pierce resistance, aren't the saurians surely more likely to pick units without pierce resist that also do not have a ranged attack. Given that saurians also resist pierce damage, I would say (and I admit I'm no expert) that Swordsmen backed up by healers are still a better choice: more strikes against a vulnerability at the expense of a few free HP lost in defense assuming saurians use ranged attack.
If all the rest of your frontline units have ranged attacks, then a Javelineer is good to take against Saurians. Then you'll see the Saurian Augers hitting your troops with sticks, which is always good for laughs. I also like Javelineers against hordes of Assassins, when you have insufficient healers. Otherwise, I don't like taking Javelineers in campaigns.

Halberdiers are good in defensive situations, like against an overwhelming Saurian force where you don't have lots of ranged units. Halberdiers have 40% pierce resistance and first strike against the otherwise annoying half dead Saurian (piercing) skirmishers that sneak through your lines to attack your wounded Halberdiers.

So, in campaigns, take Swordsmen / Royal Guards mostly, with maybe one Pikeman / Halberdier, and only take a Javelineer when it's the sort of scenario that demands it (like hordes of Saurians or Orcish Assassins and your victory is in question.)
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