Khalifate Unit Naming

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Coffee
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Coffee » May 21st, 2011, 5:27 am

I would have to agree that it seems strange to have a faction with Arabic/Persian names alongside all the other factions, where you can tell what a unit is just by its name. In trying to add this faction to my user made MP campaign I noticed that going to the help file -> Khalifate -- they all have the same sounding names!

It would be nice if there was some way of making localized "dual word" names for this faction as used in other factions -- say using some Arabic/Persian sounding words for warrior/nomad/etc combined with an Arabic/Persian word. For example, (Khalifate) Nomadic Saree.

However, considering that this seems difficult to do right or unlikely to happen I'd like to raise the following idea to make it easier to tell what unit is what a bit better...

Make the names somewhat easy to group by sound. I don't speak Arabic/Persian, but this is just to illustrate the idea:
Rami -> Saree -> Jaree. Arif -> Mudarif -> Muharib. Naffat -> Na'qaffat -> Narajat.

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Dixie » May 21st, 2011, 12:45 pm

Coffee wrote:Make the names somewhat easy to group by sound. I don't speak Arabic/Persian, but this is just to illustrate the idea:
Rami -> Saree -> Jaree. Arif -> Mudarif -> Muharib. Naffat -> Na'qaffat -> Narajat.
I guess it mostly depends wether or not the names have an actual meaning or are just made up turkish-sounding words. Even if I have no idea what a "Saree" is, if it means "Uber cavalry of death" and you give the name to an archer... I dunno, it might feel weird for the handful of people who might know the words. Or just for the developpers' sense of correctness :hmm:
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Horus2 » May 21st, 2011, 8:24 pm

Coffee wrote:Make the names somewhat easy to group by sound. I don't speak Arabic/Persian, but this is just to illustrate the idea:
Rami -> Saree -> Jaree. Arif -> Mudarif -> Muharib. Naffat -> Na'qaffat -> Narajat.
Grouped they are so, and became less possible to distinguish units...
Trust the authors of the faction, the names have meaning, they are not hard to learn... and generally i agree with every statement written before about the advantages of using foreign names both for unit's names and the units itself.

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Pentarctagon » May 21st, 2011, 9:42 pm

I think that the Khalifa units having different names is fine. That said, I'll probably just call their units 'Khalifa <insert normal name here>'.
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Noy » May 21st, 2011, 10:32 pm

Just because it will probably save someone the work...


Jundi (Soldier)- Muqatil (fighter) -> Muharib (Warrior)

- Monawish (Skirmisher) -> Mighwar (Valiant one)

Naffat (Oil Thrower) - Qatif al-nar (Fire thrower)-> Tineen (Dragon)


Arif (Sergeant) - Ghazi (conqueror) -Khalid (great hero)

- Mubariz (Gladiator) - Batal (champion)


Hakim(wise one) - Tabib (doctor)


Rami (Archer) - Saree (Swift one) – Jawal (Ranger)

- Qanas (sniper) - Hadaf (Dead-eye)

Khaiyal (rider) - Faris (Knight) - Murafiq (Bodyguard)
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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Rigor » May 23rd, 2011, 1:34 pm

hello there! i wondered about the names as well. i must say, i really like the current names. its so much better than the elvish names that u cant spell in 50% of the cases (or the outlaws - ugh). next to the khalifates names only orcish or dwarven names sound pronouncable. loyalists sound too odd in my ears, and drakes feel weird as well - the undead dont face those problems. giving the loys a french/german (perhaps russian) touch would really feel great, as well as keeping the arabian tune for the khalifate.

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by mameluke » May 23rd, 2011, 6:14 pm

I think you mix up the unit name with the individual character name?
I don't see any problems with an elf-woman hitting somebody with a mace...

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Atz » May 24th, 2011, 8:02 am

Rigor wrote:i wondered about the names as well. i must say, i really like the current names. its so much better than the elvish names that u cant spell in 50% of the cases (or the outlaws - ugh). next to the khalifates names only orcish or dwarven names sound pronouncable. loyalists sound too odd in my ears, and drakes feel weird as well - the undead dont face those problems. giving the loys a french/german (perhaps russian) touch would really feel great, as well as keeping the arabian tune for the khalifate.
I'm pretty sure the human personal names are based on Welsh and Old English names. Given that they seem to heavily rooted in the traditional Medieval England style of fantasy, it's quite fitting. Just be glad they're not full of ligatures and odd accents, like Æðelðryd. Drakish names are supposed to sound odd because they're dragon people. They have different-shaped mouths.

That said, this thread is about the names of the unit types (Jundi, Hakim, Khaiyal, etc.) rather than then personal names.

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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Rigor » May 26th, 2011, 6:56 am

:lol2: u r right of course, consider it a feedback for the unit name generator :mrgreen: as for remembering the new unit names - it is really easy after u play one game, earlier it might be a bit confusing i agree. but nothing a person with a brain couldnt deal with :lol2:

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by inle_badger » June 19th, 2011, 9:29 pm

Accidentally put this on the faction feeback thread before realising this one existed...

I've nothing against the theme of the faction as stands, but I think that simpler unit names would help new players to familiarise themselves.
Compare, just for example:
Guardsman/Spearman/Saurian Skirmisher/Lundi
Drake fighter/Elvish fighter/Naga fighter/ Arif
Horseman/Griffon-Rider/Wolf-rider/Rami
Mage/Assassin/Drake Burner/Hakim

I know that there are always a few oddities (slurbow?) and that it won't take long for regular players to get used to the new names, but I see no reason not to keep things straightforward?
For example (off the top of my head, but it's a start):
Valor-guard
Falcon
Herbalist
Hillman
Heavy Cavalry
Fire-archer
Horse-archer

Higher level units could perhaps retain the Persian titles if the original developers really want to use them. And the current names could still be included in the Unit descriptions?

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Noy » June 20th, 2011, 2:05 am

inle_badger wrote:Accidentally put this on the faction feeback thread before realising this one existed...

I've nothing against the theme of the faction as stands, but I think that simpler unit names would help new players to familiarise themselves.

I know that there are always a few oddities (slurbow?) and that it won't take long for regular players to get used to the new names, but I see no reason not to keep things straightforward?
I think you might want to go over this thread again, because several posters have offered a number of good reasons why they should stay the way they are.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.

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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by Rigor » June 20th, 2011, 1:45 pm

besides, fire-archer, horse-archer and subsequent level 2-archers sound just dreadful. same with hillman. THAT wont win u a prize :lol2:

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em3
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by em3 » June 20th, 2011, 5:38 pm

Rigor wrote: same with hillman. THAT wont win u a prize :lol2:
I believe "highlander" would sound better. And cheesier. :lol2:
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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by inle_badger » June 20th, 2011, 5:51 pm

...fire-archer, horse-archer and subsequent level 2-archers sound just dreadful. same with hillman...


True. :)
Bear in mind that this was originally a quick, off-the-top-of-my-head post on another thread to raise the idea before I saw that this was already under discussion here.

I've read the rest of the thread and to be honest, I agree with Mameluke's* argument most, but just setting out my opinion, nothing more :) . No problem with the names of individual units, incidentally, just the titles of the actual unit-type. I think this distinction is getting a bit mixed up in places.

(*funnily enough, "Mameluke" would actually be a unit I'd have no objections to on the grounds that it is relatively familiar term in English... just as "Ninja" and "Samurai" are recognisable while 'Ashigaru' and 'Naginata' and the various other subdivisions of a full Shogun-era army are not.)

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Re: Khalifate Unit Naming

Post by bloodymarx » June 21st, 2011, 5:19 pm

Say, do the Khalifate have background lore written for them so far? For example, what is the land they hail from called? If you want to rename the faction, then that'd be a good place to turn to. "Knalgans" (Knalgan Alliance in full) is a good example, after all. Personally, I think something like that might fit in with the other factions better than the current name does: none of those refer to systems of government, after all. (Not to mention that the Caliphate is afaik a quite specific reference to a real-life government.) In my opinion, it might work better if they were named the "XY Khalifate", and if there's a good name for their land, then maybe use that for short. Of course, that all depends upon whether somebody comes up with a good name for their homeland or not.

Also, while non-language unit names might not be a good thing, there's also a prior example for that: Draug isn't an English word. (Strictly speaking, Shyde isn't one either.) The difference here is that the entire faction's unit names are in a different language, but since I assume that the goal was to make the faction's units unique in pretty much all their aspects, I'd say that works.

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