Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
51
21%
Reaper
28
12%
Scythemaster
20
8%
Shadowalker
17
7%
Shadow Prince
19
8%
Siege Troll
11
5%
Sky Goblin
4
2%
Snow Hunter
20
8%
Soul Shooter
5
2%
Swordmaster
28
12%
Troll Boulderlobber
2
1%
Warlock
24
10%
Werewolf Rider
5
2%
Zombie Rider
7
3%
 
Total votes: 241

white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Ilja wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 7:19 pm Thank you! Are there such good books worth spending 1 AMLA just for be able to learn them?
And, are intelligent units the best units in game since over time they will receive more AMLAS then others?
It sounds like I may not have been clear when I commented on how books relate to legacies. It doesn't cost an AMLA to read a book (like it does to learn your legacy), it's just that you don't get an immediate upgrade when you read one (for most books), it simply enables new AMLA paths like learning your legacy.

I use books, just not for my leaders. I love Book of Fireballs, usually for Heavy Infantry or Bandits as it gives them a ranged attack (or more accurately, a ranged defense). I think the trick is to make sure you give the right book to the right unit. I think it's usually worth learning a legacy, and possibly exploring those options, before giving the unit a book, just in case the legacy and the book overlap.

Intelligent is very useful in LotI due to the AMLAs, but it sort of depends on how you play. If you want to have a dozen or so "superheroes", then intelligent is very good (that's how I play, and I find it works very well). But, they tend to take up a lot of XP to advance, and at some point you end up with so much gear that it may make more sense to spread around the gear/XP, in which case intelligent is not as great. One thing to keep in mind, in most cases units require a lot of XP to reach max level, then a very small amount for the first few/several AMLAs. So intelligent is great if you want to build up a bunch of units to their max level, or if you want to build a team of "superheroes" who you give many AMLAs, but if you want to build a large team of units which are max level and have a few AMLAs intelligent is less valuable.
dwarftough wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:03 pm Guys, whom would you give the Blue orb of dragonflame? I think whether it's worth it to grant it to Efraim or not
I've always given it to Efraim, though I'm really starting to question that decision. It probably adds the most damage (in an absolute sense) if you give it to him, but then if he can kill anything that moves without it, what's the point? I'm thinking maybe a berserker would be a better choice, or even Lethalia? Maybe combine it with trickery and/or doom?
dwarftough
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

white_haired_uncle wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:44 pm I'm thinking maybe a berserker would be a better choice, or even Lethalia? Maybe combine it with trickery and/or doom?
A berserker learnt from books or what kind? Coz there are no dwarvish berskers in part 1, only fighters
Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

dwarftough wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 2:10 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:44 pm I'm thinking maybe a berserker would be a better choice, or even Lethalia? Maybe combine it with trickery and/or doom?
A berserker learnt from books or what kind? Coz there are no dwarvish berskers in part 1, only fighters
I mean anything with a (lesser?) berserk attack, so the effect of the orb gets multiplied. I'm pretty sure there's a way to get that in part 1.

Combined with wrath might be a good idea, perhaps even an AoE attack if possible (I've never figured out exactly how/if they combine, but I'm always trying to use wrath to offset the lethargy side effects of AoE attacks).
masterpace
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Joined: June 30th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by masterpace »

I have noticed that the additional hitpoints advancement path for Efraim and Lethalia doesn't really work as intended. If Efraim has 150 hp and levels up, choosing any advancement would leave him at 153 hp (standard amla bonus) but choosing the additional hitpoints advancement leaves him at 160 and not 163 (practically increasing his hp by 7 only instead of 10). It seems that the effect of this advancement overrides the intended effect of the standard amla bonus. An easy fix would be to change the number 10 in the code to a 13, leading to the intended result (unless it was never intended to be this way, and I'm very curious about the reasoning behind it).
dwarftough
Posts: 478
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

masterpace wrote: February 7th, 2022, 6:16 pm I have noticed that the additional hitpoints advancement path for Efraim and Lethalia doesn't really work as intended. If Efraim has 150 hp and levels up, choosing any advancement would leave him at 153 hp (standard amla bonus) but choosing the additional hitpoints advancement leaves him at 160 and not 163 (practically increasing his hp by 7 only instead of 10). It seems that the effect of this advancement overrides the intended effect of the standard amla bonus. An easy fix would be to change the number 10 in the code to a 13, leading to the intended result (unless it was never intended to be this way, and I'm very curious about the reasoning behind it).
Wasn't it intended to be 10 = 3 + 7? In the code there is no number 10, there is 7 and 3 from default bonuses
Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

masterpace wrote: February 7th, 2022, 6:16 pm I have noticed that the additional hitpoints advancement path for Efraim and Lethalia doesn't really work as intended. If Efraim has 150 hp and levels up, choosing any advancement would leave him at 153 hp (standard amla bonus) but choosing the additional hitpoints advancement leaves him at 160 and not 163 (practically increasing his hp by 7 only instead of 10). It seems that the effect of this advancement overrides the intended effect of the standard amla bonus. An easy fix would be to change the number 10 in the code to a 13, leading to the intended result (unless it was never intended to be this way, and I'm very curious about the reasoning behind it).
I've always assumed it was working as intended, though now that you mention it it could be considered a little strange the way it's worded.

Personally, if anything is to be done, I'd much rather see the description updated in some way than change the increase to 13. Actually, I'd prefer to see it decrease every time you take it (I don't remember how many times you can take it, but he ends up with WAY too much HP - but then it is the Legend of the Invincibles).
masterpace
Posts: 27
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by masterpace »

I only noticed it when choosing advancements, as the difference appeared to be 7 instead of 10 (only because of the +3 standard amla). In my opinion, it makes more sense to add 13, as the advancement stating +10hp should be treated as independent of normal bonuses.
dwarftough
Posts: 478
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

white_haired_uncle wrote: February 7th, 2022, 10:23 pm Personally, if anything is to be done, I'd much rather see the description updated in some way than change the increase to 13. Actually, I'd prefer to see it decrease every time you take it (I don't remember how many times you can take it, but he ends up with WAY too much HP - but then it is the Legend of the Invincibles).
Hm, I've never taken hp advancements for Efraim/Lethalia, I considered these advancements inferior, maybe I was wrong, hm, I dunno. About how many times - four. So you can increase hp by 40 hp (12 hp from usual alma's 3 hp boost and 28 hp for this +7 hp amla) spending four amlas. Dunno if it's worth it tbh
Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
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dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

I think the hitpoint advancements are awful. If they doubled in value (14 extra for total 17) they still wouldn't be worth it. Simple example - craft Mastodon. At 6 hps per level, plus 8 always, that is 68 hitpoints, and it gives 2 extra damage. That would take 9-10 levels worth of hitpoint only AMLAs.
dwarftough
Posts: 478
Joined: August 4th, 2019, 5:27 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

Also there is a possibility to make nigh unlimited hp with Foul Potion. If you let enemies attack and advance you, the potion's effect won't be reset (yes, yes, that's an ancient bug)

With it I made stuff like that
unknown-6.png
Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

dabber wrote: February 13th, 2022, 6:10 pm I think the hitpoint advancements are awful. If they doubled in value (14 extra for total 17) they still wouldn't be worth it. Simple example - craft Mastodon. At 6 hps per level, plus 8 always, that is 68 hitpoints, and it gives 2 extra damage. That would take 9-10 levels worth of hitpoint only AMLAs.
I suppose it depends when you take them.

Early on, Efraim's kind of a wimp. +10HP is a huge boost.

Later on, when Efraim has huge defenses/resistances, absorbs and drains with lots of attacks (and yes, at least one Mastadon item), he's going to come out of most battles with at least as much HP as he went in with, so an extra 10 (or 1000) isn't going to make a difference.

I always take them, as my play style would best be described as lazy. I do have to admit, I may be wasting AMLAs, which may explain why I find the advanced attacks (e.g. particle storm) useless (maybe by the time I get to them, since I've used up so many AMLAs I've never seen them as enough value to advance multiple times).
wdfrodo
Posts: 14
Joined: November 30th, 2021, 12:01 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by wdfrodo »

Just an Idea for a HORRIBLE challenge. No Items. Barring the tutorial which is obviously impossible, how far do you think I could get?
masterpace
Posts: 27
Joined: June 30th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by masterpace »

wdfrodo wrote: February 17th, 2022, 7:16 pm Just an Idea for a HORRIBLE challenge. No Items. Barring the tutorial which is obviously impossible, how far do you think I could get?
To be honest it might be possible to complete the entire campaign this way if you play it on easy and advance a lot of units. If you end up going for it, do share your gameplay with us :whistle:
wdfrodo
Posts: 14
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by wdfrodo »

masterpace wrote: March 10th, 2022, 10:41 am
wdfrodo wrote: February 17th, 2022, 7:16 pm Just an Idea for a HORRIBLE challenge. No Items. Barring the tutorial which is obviously impossible, how far do you think I could get?
To be honest it might be possible to complete the entire campaign this way if you play it on easy and advance a lot of units. If you end up going for it, do share your gameplay with us :whistle:
I think I have an idea for a Plan, Advance A Elvish Gryphon Rider to use it to skip the Longer Levels and 90% of the Inferno, Most Other levels should be doable barring boss fights which I will be using My Duke Plan For
wdfrodo
Posts: 14
Joined: November 30th, 2021, 12:01 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by wdfrodo »

Oh Btw I used Debug to Skip the first Level and Delly is still a Rogue, If this causes a problem I'll mention it here
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