Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
2 to win, 9 to get the bonus, 6 to get the bonus once you figure out that the AI will just follow Konrad rather than the rest of your troops.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear. I like how it explains the horseman pros and cons for newer players.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Just winning is no sweat. Trying to get the bonus was very very hard, due to very tight time limit mostly. Once I looked at the walkthrough and read that, counterintuitively, the AI would send all their forces toward konrad and ignore even a very big force of your units in the other direction, then it got much easier.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9. It's fast, interesting, gives a lot of different options for where to engage the enemy and how to interact with your ally.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The ally recruits just a few level 2 horsemen who rush in, charge something, and get crushed the next turn, almost before you can interact with them at all. Then it's just you against the AI. I think it would be better if he recruited a larger number of level 1 horsemen instead, since they would survive longer and stay relevant for more of the scenario. I don't know about other people, but for me, before I understood how the AI would move its units toward Konrad so preferentially from so far away, I thought it was impossible to get the bonus, but once I knew it, it was much easier. I think that it might be better for there to be some hint about this in the intro dialogue, like the enemy leader telling his troops that Konrad is the number one priority and to not get distracted by the others, or something like that.
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lujo86
Posts: 41
Joined: January 31st, 2023, 9:50 am

Re: Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

Post by lujo86 »

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

1.16.2
Highest

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6 to win in a non-goofy fashion, where you build some elf troops, set up a defense, and try to get some XP while sacrificing some units. Seemed like there's p much no way to get the bonus this way, but it was welcome and engaging after the mess that is the first level.

1 to win with the bonus objective, because they way to do it trivializes the level completely and makes it a terrible introductory level as you barely need to build troops and it takes less effort than trying to play it sensibly would.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine enough.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Overcoming the notion that the first serious-looking level of a campaign where you can recruit elves gives you a bonus reward for not building any elves but gaming the AI.

When playing it sensibly, the challenge was actually there, and it was where to set up a defensive line (the boggy patches proved the most satisfying spot for this).

When playing it for the bonus objective the challenge was mostly psychological as I had to fight my brain telling me "It can't be just this stupid, right?", and overcoming my own brain to get the reward.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

Played straight it's a bit tricky, but reasonably fun, other than the fact that not being able to score the bonus while playing it reasonably can frustrate people.

If played for the bonus it's extremely lame, unchallenging and unfun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

a) If the allied swordsmen/sergeants could come into the fray without you having to be so far back as to avoid the fight for many turns, it would help evening the odds and maybe make it possible to beat the boss in a non-stupid fashion.

b) Maybe not have the first level where you get to have a semi-even battle with your recruitable elven units be more rewardingly solved by recruiting some horsemen instead of elves and just avoiding the fight?
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ElvishMystical0
Posts: 33
Joined: September 19th, 2018, 12:15 am

Re: Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

Post by ElvishMystical0 »

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Versions 1.12 to 1.16, usually Easy or Medium, but also Hard. This feedback relates to 1.16 Medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
To survive for 12 turns is about a 2-3, but the bonus objective is more like 7-8.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I've got to be honest the storyline here seems a bit contrived and the long winded stuff about using Horsemen and loyal troops needs to be somewhere else. I find it strange that in a campaign centered around Elves you get lots of info about Horsemen but no information about shamen, the slow ability and the importance of healing. Sir Kaylan, your ally, sends horse units to help out and I'm assuming that most players can learn about using horse units from their own experience. I get that the Horsemen line is important in the campaign but I feel this needs to be looked at and modified.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
You come into this scenario with not much money and not much of an army either. It's not a large map and this is where you experience an Orcish rush at night for the first time. 18 gold needs to go on an Elvish Scout at least because the villages are so far away. This is important for me as I want to start recruiting Elvish Archers which is my main damage dealer early on but Shamen are necessary to slow melee orientated Orcs.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I give this a 5. Please don't get me wrong, I love Battle for Wesnoth, but this scenario has so many issues trying to set up some kind of army with not a lot of gold so this scenario is more puzzle than fun.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't think you can. Playing Elves isn't always simple or straightforward because the four Elvish units Fighter, Archer, Shaman and Scout work well together and you have a lot of flexibility as to how you play them. Developing an Elvish army takes time and experience because individually, aside from the Elvish Archer, the units aren't all that much, but a good Elvish army in a forest or even on hills can be quite powerful, especially as they have more mobility than Dwarves, Loyalists and Orcs.

This is important because unlike An Orcish Incursion, and less so like Legend of Wesmere, HTTT is a long campaign and not all scenarios are going to be fun.
Orek
Posts: 27
Joined: June 24th, 2020, 1:02 am

Re: Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

Post by Orek »

Content Feedback wrote: (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) Challenging (=Champion=Hardest) in 1.14.17 on permadeath
(2) 10 (the most difficult = 23rd easiest)
... [Difficult] 2, 16, 14, 4, 9, 6, 5b, 10, 13, 12, 23, 8, 7, 3, 15, 17, 19c, 22, 1, 20b, 11, 24, 18 [Easy]
(3) Very clear
(4) Clear and interesting enough
(5) Killing the enemy leader once in a few runs was not very difficult, but finding ways to achieve it 100 out of 100 runs took me more than 500 practice runs in 2 years or so.
(6) 10 (the most fun = 23rd most boring)
... [Fun] 2, 1, 6, 9, 5b, 4, 16, 15, 23, 3, 12, 14, 10, 24, 13, 8, 7, 19c, 20b, 11, 17, 22, 18 [Boring]
(7) None

YouTube Link: Run 1 Run 2 Run 3
Walkthrough: HttT walkthrough (hardest, permadeath, v1.14.17) + General campaign guides (Replays for all scenarios can be downloaded from here.)
JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 – Similar to the previous scenario, simply holding out to compete it is extremely easy; but you also want to start training up your troops so there's a bit more challenge in trying to get that XP. (I didn't even try for the "bonus objective," because it seemed completely impossible to accomplish that in a non-gimmicky fashion.)
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear; moderately interesting. I noticed that some commentators disliked the sudden shift to horsemen and discussing them instead of elves – but, I think the idea is that Konrad has been living with elves all his life and already knows them well (as per the Tutorial), so now it's like he's dealing with something new. So that part of the dialogue and campaign progression actually did make sense to me. I just keep going back to the thought that this campaign should come directly after the Tutorial.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
This one can be hard if you rush out and meet the enemy in the center, rather than moving north to link up with the ally's help. As usual when working with allies, not knowing what they are going to do can make it tricky in deciding your own actions. Overall, though, there weren't any major difficulties here.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The only thing I might suggest is putting a few more rounds on the clock, to allow the battle to play out further. I found that time ran out right in the middle of the fight, with most of the enemy units still alive, so the sudden end was a bit disappointing.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

The maps and storyline here are well-made and polished, though not as completely epic as some of the other campaigns. I like that it is lengthy, giving you time to develop your army, and gradually introduces many different terrains and unit types. This seems like a great beginner campaign since it's fairly easy and the early scenarios are framed as a kind of mentoring environment for the young hero. (However, it's a bit strange that some of the basic dialogue tips, like "hey, loyal units don't require upkeep!" are just now arriving, after I've already played through several previous campaigns without that advice.) There are some glitches that can come up in the Scepter of Fire scenario, and some of the princess-related dialogue around scenarios 17–21 felt a bit confusing and unbelievable (more specific comments in the relevant threads). This campaign is very close to full marks, but due to those few lingering issues and the lack of any real epic blow-you-away maps I'm going to rate it 4 out of 5.
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