Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Just a small bug - the Illdari "stasis generator" attack applies an overlay image to its victim which never gets removed (even after the effect has worn off).
-
dwarftough
- Posts: 484
- Joined: August 4th, 2019, 5:27 pm
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Something seems to be messed up with drains in the current version: all robots and all buildings are drainable, Braineaters drain everyone. Speaking about buildings, I looked at the trait, it defined without "undrainable"
I wonder if this was made because of the "recharge" ability of one of Steelhive's warriors, which should drain from construction and stuff like that. But I wonder if undrainable still prohibits draining if it's allowed by filters. Right now we have a situatuion where Braineaters drain HQs, drain robots, drain everyone
Code: Select all
#define TRAIT_CONSTRUCTION
# Units with this trait cannot be drained, poisoned or plagued.
[trait]
id=construction
availability="musthave"
male_name= _ "construction"
female_name= _ "female^construction"
description= _ "Immune to drain, poison and plague."
[effect]
apply_to=status
add=unpoisonable
[/effect]
[effect]
apply_to=status
add=unpoisonable
[/effect]
[/trait]
#enddefCo-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
-
daniel.santos
- Posts: 54
- Joined: May 22nd, 2008, 2:45 am
Loosing my AI :(
Bye bye my GE AI
I exited the game, then later started it again and loaded my game and started playing, but the other teams stopped moving, the "show previous turn AI moves" showed info for two turns ago. What was weird is when I started the game the second time, it said it was reading files and [censored] up creating cache, though I hadn't changed add-ons or add-on files.
Diff between an auto-save file and saving it again immediately after loading it:
I removed and re-added the AI and that didn't cause it's files to be realoaded, but when I exited and started Wesnoth again, it did reaload them and it worked until I exited again.
EDIT: So it works again if I first start a new GE scenario and then load the game.
I exited the game, then later started it again and loaded my game and started playing, but the other teams stopped moving, the "show previous turn AI moves" showed info for two turns ago. What was weird is when I started the game the second time, it said it was reading files and [censored] up creating cache, though I hadn't changed add-ons or add-on files.
Diff between an auto-save file and saving it again immediately after loading it:
Spoiler:
EDIT: So it works again if I first start a new GE scenario and then load the game.
-
daniel.santos
- Posts: 54
- Joined: May 22nd, 2008, 2:45 am
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Do you have a git repo anywhere? I have a few contributions I would like to make. For starters, this works on >= v1.77.22 and you can just double click on your HQ or planet to scroll to the other. This is a very commonly needed functionality, so having quicker way to do it really helps me.
Load ui.lua in
EDIT: the lua code is written for tabsize=4 (because that's what they do in Lua) so looks terrible when rendered correctly (with ts=8)
ui.lua
Spoiler:
preload event
Spoiler:
- Attachments
-
ui.lua- double-click handler
- (1.8 KiB) Downloaded 80 times
-
daniel.santos
- Posts: 54
- Joined: May 22nd, 2008, 2:45 am
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
A few other suggestions:
The devs will probably just tell me to write a GUI.
- When beaming down to a hex that's not visible, we shouldn't see a warning that we're about to nuke an enemy.
- give exp to transport for transporter-nuking a bad guy?
- Is it possible to make planets (a unit) not disappear in fog of war? If not, can we add the sprite on top of the tile as an object?
- make resources on a given planet type more consistent. I've had dust giants with 4 fungus patches or two, which is a big difference. Maybe have a lua function that calculates the total of each resources and if it's not close enough to an expected value to regenerate that plant surface? I don't know map generation at all yet.
- Is it possible to limit "next unit" so it only cycles through space craft?
- A "find inactive worker" command / menu item / hot key to discover any workers not generating resources.
- Add a planet summary somewhere with total resources of all tiles? (But maybe only once it's been scanned or the whole surface seen?)
- Finally, TAKE A BOW! AWESOME GAME!!
The devs will probably just tell me to write a GUI.
-
daniel.santos
- Posts: 54
- Joined: May 22nd, 2008, 2:45 am
More Stupid Ideas
I never run out of stupid ideas. The great thing is that if you can pick through them, there are always gems buried in there!
Instead of going straight to converting research points into gold, I would love to see an "advanced technology something" fourth tier become available to research once all three tiers of the original tech lines are finished. This would then be followed by a fifth tier, but you can only choose one from a list of possibilities. Of course, these should cost a lot more RPs to get.
Some of the possibilities I'm thinking of are powerful, restrictive, and single-use items that can be installed on a ship.
Instead of going straight to converting research points into gold, I would love to see an "advanced technology something" fourth tier become available to research once all three tiers of the original tech lines are finished. This would then be followed by a fifth tier, but you can only choose one from a list of possibilities. Of course, these should cost a lot more RPs to get.
Some of the possibilities I'm thinking of are powerful, restrictive, and single-use items that can be installed on a ship.
- Can only be installed on ships of level 2+
- Costs at least 50g (maybe more)
- Only one can be installed in your entire fleet at a time
- Maybe limit how often they can be purchased
- Is consumed when used, but may be installed again later
- Maybe each item can be function as a counter-measure to one such other item.
- RUN AWAY! A warp device that teleports all of your nearby ships somewhere near your home world.
- GET LOST! Teleports/shoves all nearby enemy ships away a random (min and max) distance *away* from the ship that fired the device, scattering them. So enemies to the north are teleport towards the north, to the south towards the south, and so on.
- Sneak attack: A warp device that teleports a maximum of x ships surrounding your homeworld to the location of the ship using the device
- Self destruct: Destroys your nice, high-level ship, but damages or takes nearby ships out with it. So you can send one of these in to break up a fleet guarding a planet before you bring in your invasion force. (Honestly, I'm not so sure about how to balance that one)
- Not so fast! Enemy ships within a certain range have movement, damage output, and damage taken halved for one turn.
- terraforming a limited percentage of tiles to either produce more gold or food. Perhaps an ability that scientists get that, when enabled takes a few turns to complete and they don't produce research points while using it.
- A planet upgrade (or building?) that prevents hostile teleportation to the planet until it's destroyed (by bombarding the planet until it's down to 50% health or something?) and requires shields upgrade first.
- Baby Boom: Food required for unit production on all planets is halved (to a minimum of 10) when tech is researched
- assault units start with half of their experience bar filled, or some other advantage
- Defender: assault units adjacent to HQ and that do not move for three turns gain +10 defense as long as they remain stationary.
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Thanks for the latest improvements! Really enjoying the new AI, and agree that the balance seems overall better now. I played the FFA map but ordered the two AIs to team up against me; I dropped my village income to 0 and gave the AIs 125 starting gold and +7 income each. It was moderately challenging; it took me a couple of tries to beat the AI with those settings. I still think the AI has too much of a tendency to bum rush you with all its starting units; if you just hang back a little, you can generally win the encounter, which gives you an advantage lasting throughout the game. However, it's not as blatant as it used to be.
I mostly really enjoy the new buildings, but 50 gold for a Trade Hub seems wildly overpriced for a building whose main role is to *give* you gold in the endgame. If I've already maxed out population, then there probably aren't very many turns left, which means I'm not going to have time to recoup my 50 gold investment before the game is over.
I think "Trade Hub" is a cool theme for a building, especially a Terran building, but maybe it should do something else -- generate gold for each worker on the planet (no matter what they're doing), or give transports, probes, and servicers an extra +2 move when starting their move adjacent to the planet, or reduce the rate at which the planet's fertility declines from 2/pop down to 1/pop. Just brainstorming.
+1 for Daniel Santos's terraforming ideas, defender idea, and anti-teleport upgrade. In general it would be nice to have the ability to build shields that prevent or hinder enemy infantry from attacking your planets -- maybe the default version is that infantry take some damage as they're beaming down into your atmosphere unless the planet has been bombarded first?
Finally, a note on the balance of "bombers" vs. "fighters" vs. "shields." Bombers are ships that specialize in attacking enemy planets, like the Cruiser/Battleship/Destroyer line for Terrans. Shields includes Missile Bases, Laser Bases, Shields, Gaiacology, and everything else that makes a planet tougher. Fighters are all the other ships that specialize in blowing up ships.
If I've got at least 3 levels' worth of bombers (either in one ship or spread across multiple ships), and I can afford to leave them in orbit around your planet, then I can blow up your planet, period. You can't fight off a bomber fleet of that size from the ground no matter how many upgrades your planet has; the bombers just don't take enough damage to die before they kill the planet, and if you bought all those expensive upgrades for your planet, then I can easily afford to trade a bomber for your planet.
If I've only got 1 or 2 levels' worth of bombers, chances are it's not a meaningful threat to your planet -- the bomber can sit there pounding away at the planet for several turns and still not kill it; you have plenty of time to build a couple of fighters, fly it toward the planet, and scare away my bombers. You could build shields instead, but that seems foolish -- the shields won't actually defeat the bombers because the shields can't attack, and the shields are static defenses that can't be moved to other planets as needed, and the shields aren't even any more cost-efficient than nice mobile ships.
So, really, I never build any kind of shields. I might occaasionally invest in Gaiacology if you caught me napping long enough that my planet's HP got too low and I'm nervous that you have some fast ship that could finish it off lurking just outside my vision...but mostly I'd rather just have another Scout and make sure I can see the relevant part of the map.
I mostly really enjoy the new buildings, but 50 gold for a Trade Hub seems wildly overpriced for a building whose main role is to *give* you gold in the endgame. If I've already maxed out population, then there probably aren't very many turns left, which means I'm not going to have time to recoup my 50 gold investment before the game is over.
I think "Trade Hub" is a cool theme for a building, especially a Terran building, but maybe it should do something else -- generate gold for each worker on the planet (no matter what they're doing), or give transports, probes, and servicers an extra +2 move when starting their move adjacent to the planet, or reduce the rate at which the planet's fertility declines from 2/pop down to 1/pop. Just brainstorming.
+1 for Daniel Santos's terraforming ideas, defender idea, and anti-teleport upgrade. In general it would be nice to have the ability to build shields that prevent or hinder enemy infantry from attacking your planets -- maybe the default version is that infantry take some damage as they're beaming down into your atmosphere unless the planet has been bombarded first?
Finally, a note on the balance of "bombers" vs. "fighters" vs. "shields." Bombers are ships that specialize in attacking enemy planets, like the Cruiser/Battleship/Destroyer line for Terrans. Shields includes Missile Bases, Laser Bases, Shields, Gaiacology, and everything else that makes a planet tougher. Fighters are all the other ships that specialize in blowing up ships.
If I've got at least 3 levels' worth of bombers (either in one ship or spread across multiple ships), and I can afford to leave them in orbit around your planet, then I can blow up your planet, period. You can't fight off a bomber fleet of that size from the ground no matter how many upgrades your planet has; the bombers just don't take enough damage to die before they kill the planet, and if you bought all those expensive upgrades for your planet, then I can easily afford to trade a bomber for your planet.
If I've only got 1 or 2 levels' worth of bombers, chances are it's not a meaningful threat to your planet -- the bomber can sit there pounding away at the planet for several turns and still not kill it; you have plenty of time to build a couple of fighters, fly it toward the planet, and scare away my bombers. You could build shields instead, but that seems foolish -- the shields won't actually defeat the bombers because the shields can't attack, and the shields are static defenses that can't be moved to other planets as needed, and the shields aren't even any more cost-efficient than nice mobile ships.
So, really, I never build any kind of shields. I might occaasionally invest in Gaiacology if you caught me napping long enough that my planet's HP got too low and I'm nervous that you have some fast ship that could finish it off lurking just outside my vision...but mostly I'd rather just have another Scout and make sure I can see the relevant part of the map.
- Attachments
-
3p - GE Gamma Quadrant FFA replay 20231207-004128.gz- (145.25 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Nobody: I enjoyed your post on a Wesnoth add-on, but I was skeptical of the details of some of your points.
Absolutely nobody: I mean, how can we be sure you're right about the balance between bombers and planets unless you throw in a ton of math?
Literally nobody: C'mon, do some arithmetic for us!
Me: Sure, I'd be glad to! I'm so happy you asked. Suppose the Terrans have a Level 2 Battleship (hits planets at 80% for 30 antimatter damage) and a Level 1 Cruiser (hits at 80% for 20 antimatter damage). The Cruiser gets +25% damage because the Battleship should be the Terran flagship; both ships get a further +50% damage because planets are vulnerable to antimatter. On average, the planet will take 80% * 150% * (30 + 25) = 66 damage per turn. Planets have between 130 and 150 hit points, so they'll usually die in 2 or 3 turns of bombing if left undefended.
Let's say instead of leaving the planet to die, I buy shields, a defense laser, and gaiacology. These upgrades cost me 38 gp, plus 20 research points, and they don't really work. The planet will now heal 12 hp per turn, and it reduces the overall damage coming in by 20%, so it's only taking net damage of (66 * 80%) - 12 = 41 hp per turn. With 130 to 150 hit points, the planet will still die on average in 3 or 4 turns. The planet will counterattack with a 6-3 heat attack. Let's say there's no terrain, so the bombers get hit 70% of the time. They have 30% resistance to heat, so they take an average of 9 damage per turn. However, given that even the weaker Cruiser has 50 hit points, there is no reason to expect that the cruiser will die while blowing up the planet; 9 * 4 = 36, which is much less than 50.
Notice that I assuming zero upgrades for the ships, but as part of this strategy, you can and should give your bombers upgrades like auto-heal and targeting, which further skews the battle in favor of the bombers. Similarly, if you have a Level 3 Destroyer, that also makes things go better for the bombers, because you're destroying the planet while taking fewer total counter-attacks.
If, instead of spending 38 gp on planetary upgrades, I buy a 40 gp Interceptor, I have a much better chance of killing a bomber. The Interceptor deals 11 * 3 heat damage; assuming this hits at 70%, I do an average of 11 * 3 * 70% * 70% = 16 damage per turn, meaning I can kill a 50 hp Cruiser in only 3 or 4 turns. (The Cruiser does not do a relevant amount of counter-attack damage to the Interceptor in melee.) Most of the time, you'll blow up my planet, and then my Interceptor will finish off your Cruiser before it can escape. This is not a *great* deal for me, but considering I only spent 40 gp on defense and you spent 87 gp on your bombers, I have to expect to take some losses. If I instead buy 2 Interceptors for 80 gp, I am now dishing out 32 damage per turn, meaning I can kill your Battleship in about 2 turns -- quite possibly before my planet even dies. If I buy 3 Interceptors for 120 gp, I can almost always save my planet and wreck both your bombers; you probably give up and run away before it even gets to that point.
So there's nothing wrong with the outcome when fighters try to stop bombers; it works about as well as you'd expect given the ratio of gold that each side is spending on its campaign. What's busted is when shields try to stop bombers. The shields don't work and they don't even really slow the bombing campaign down to any strategically relevant degree. I might have to spend a couple of turns healing my fleet between bombing campaigns if you invest in max defense, but I'm not actually going to lose any ships, and you're losing both your planets and the money you're investing into their doomed defense systems.
Absolutely nobody: I mean, how can we be sure you're right about the balance between bombers and planets unless you throw in a ton of math?
Literally nobody: C'mon, do some arithmetic for us!
Me: Sure, I'd be glad to! I'm so happy you asked. Suppose the Terrans have a Level 2 Battleship (hits planets at 80% for 30 antimatter damage) and a Level 1 Cruiser (hits at 80% for 20 antimatter damage). The Cruiser gets +25% damage because the Battleship should be the Terran flagship; both ships get a further +50% damage because planets are vulnerable to antimatter. On average, the planet will take 80% * 150% * (30 + 25) = 66 damage per turn. Planets have between 130 and 150 hit points, so they'll usually die in 2 or 3 turns of bombing if left undefended.
Let's say instead of leaving the planet to die, I buy shields, a defense laser, and gaiacology. These upgrades cost me 38 gp, plus 20 research points, and they don't really work. The planet will now heal 12 hp per turn, and it reduces the overall damage coming in by 20%, so it's only taking net damage of (66 * 80%) - 12 = 41 hp per turn. With 130 to 150 hit points, the planet will still die on average in 3 or 4 turns. The planet will counterattack with a 6-3 heat attack. Let's say there's no terrain, so the bombers get hit 70% of the time. They have 30% resistance to heat, so they take an average of 9 damage per turn. However, given that even the weaker Cruiser has 50 hit points, there is no reason to expect that the cruiser will die while blowing up the planet; 9 * 4 = 36, which is much less than 50.
Notice that I assuming zero upgrades for the ships, but as part of this strategy, you can and should give your bombers upgrades like auto-heal and targeting, which further skews the battle in favor of the bombers. Similarly, if you have a Level 3 Destroyer, that also makes things go better for the bombers, because you're destroying the planet while taking fewer total counter-attacks.
If, instead of spending 38 gp on planetary upgrades, I buy a 40 gp Interceptor, I have a much better chance of killing a bomber. The Interceptor deals 11 * 3 heat damage; assuming this hits at 70%, I do an average of 11 * 3 * 70% * 70% = 16 damage per turn, meaning I can kill a 50 hp Cruiser in only 3 or 4 turns. (The Cruiser does not do a relevant amount of counter-attack damage to the Interceptor in melee.) Most of the time, you'll blow up my planet, and then my Interceptor will finish off your Cruiser before it can escape. This is not a *great* deal for me, but considering I only spent 40 gp on defense and you spent 87 gp on your bombers, I have to expect to take some losses. If I instead buy 2 Interceptors for 80 gp, I am now dishing out 32 damage per turn, meaning I can kill your Battleship in about 2 turns -- quite possibly before my planet even dies. If I buy 3 Interceptors for 120 gp, I can almost always save my planet and wreck both your bombers; you probably give up and run away before it even gets to that point.
So there's nothing wrong with the outcome when fighters try to stop bombers; it works about as well as you'd expect given the ratio of gold that each side is spending on its campaign. What's busted is when shields try to stop bombers. The shields don't work and they don't even really slow the bombing campaign down to any strategically relevant degree. I might have to spend a couple of turns healing my fleet between bombing campaigns if you invest in max defense, but I'm not actually going to lose any ships, and you're losing both your planets and the money you're investing into their doomed defense systems.
-
daniel.santos
- Posts: 54
- Joined: May 22nd, 2008, 2:45 am
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
THANKS FOR THE ARITHMETIC<3Argothair wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 3:43 am Nobody: I enjoyed your post on a Wesnoth add-on, but I was skeptical of the details of some of your points.
Absolutely nobody: I mean, how can we be sure you're right about the balance between bombers and planets unless you throw in a ton of math?
Literally nobody: C'mon, do some arithmetic for us!
I wholeheartedly agree; this needs some balancing. I've only played a few games so far, but I haven't yet purchased shields or any planetary defenses because I'm just not finding them to be cost effective. But at least I can think of a few things that could improve it, though some of these idead are clear rip-offs from other games.
1. Make them buildings that can be destroyed and that require a planetary ground tile!
2. All damage to a planet first goes to the shields and it's effects are disabled when the building is destroyed.
3. Destroying them leaves a "destroyed" or "ruined" building in it's place that can be repaired to bring the system back online. (presuming you survive the attack and it must takes a few turns)
4. Shields prevent teleportation until destroyed / disabled!
5. Maybe planetary missiles and lasers must also be destroyed before damage starts going to planet?
6. Maybe scientists and/or workers can assist in repairing the buildings, but if they do then they also take damage and can be killed when that building is attacked?
7. Chickens are birds.
I hope this isn't overboard, but it makes planetary colony's more stable. It would probably only work if you couldn't just purchase all three on a single turn -- that might make them *too* stable.
-
Bob_The_Mighty
- Posts: 870
- Joined: July 13th, 2006, 1:15 pm
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Thanks for the all ideas and bug reports. I'm working on a new update which will fix the above issues and introduce some new elements. (And yes, I have been thoroughly convinced that planetary defences are both lacklustre and too expensive.) Suggestions for gameplay ideas are always welcome, but with any new feature I tend to ask: a) would the GE AI be able to handle it? b) Will it make ground invasions more difficult? c) Will it make the game drag on?
I've been playing a bit of Warhammer Gladius on Steam lately and have enjoyed most aspects of the game (it's interesting to compare the similarities/differences with Wesnoth, especially the things this old open source game does much better). However, every game of Gladius I've played has turned into a tedious grind with dozens of units in a very slow war of attrition. Unfortunately, it reminded me of some games of Galactic Empires. So, in an effort to avoid this kind of engame grind, I'm introducing a new game mode based on victory points. Players gain victory points by controlling planets (3 for a giant, 2 for a dwarf, etc), but they lose the points if they lose the planet. The first player to hit a certain threshold is the winner (this threshold differs from map to map and can be adjusted at game start). I'll be interested to see if this makes GE play quicker. At the very least it should ensure that each game is decided in a decisive/dramatic manner with a planetary invasion tipping the scales.
By the way, I can't replicate this bug, have you seen it happen since?
I've been playing a bit of Warhammer Gladius on Steam lately and have enjoyed most aspects of the game (it's interesting to compare the similarities/differences with Wesnoth, especially the things this old open source game does much better). However, every game of Gladius I've played has turned into a tedious grind with dozens of units in a very slow war of attrition. Unfortunately, it reminded me of some games of Galactic Empires. So, in an effort to avoid this kind of engame grind, I'm introducing a new game mode based on victory points. Players gain victory points by controlling planets (3 for a giant, 2 for a dwarf, etc), but they lose the points if they lose the planet. The first player to hit a certain threshold is the winner (this threshold differs from map to map and can be adjusted at game start). I'll be interested to see if this makes GE play quicker. At the very least it should ensure that each game is decided in a decisive/dramatic manner with a planetary invasion tipping the scales.
By the way, I can't replicate this bug, have you seen it happen since?
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
-
Bob_The_Mighty
- Posts: 870
- Joined: July 13th, 2006, 1:15 pm
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
I’ve uploaded another big update to Galactic Empires. Version 5.x is ready to play and addresses all the bugs mentioned in this thread. It also incorporates mattsc’s GEAI, so his add-on is no longer required as a separate download. There are also a number of new features…
Introducing Faction Heroes
Players now start the game with a special faction hero, which can be beamed up and deployed like other ground units. However, these guys are level 2 so their leadership abilities are a great boon when used alongside level 0 soldiers. In addition, heroes get an exploration bonus of 10XP whenever they visit the surface of a new planet. And they each have a unique set of AMLAs, which means they can gain an extra ability every time they advance. For instance, the Terran’s Captain can gain suppression which allows him to slow enemies with his gatling cannon. Meanwhile, the Vector can acquire abilities that confer bonuses to every Steelhive unit in a connected network. Heroes are tough, but they cannot be replaced. Hopefully they will make the factions even more unique, and will ensure that invasions are quicker and more decisive.
Victory Points for the win!
The default victory conditions have changed: players must now acquire a certain number of victory points to win the game. These points are tied to the possession of planets: Homeworld (5VP), Giant (3VP), Dwarf (2VP), Moon (1VP). If you lose the planet, you lose the points. If a planet is destroyed the number of points required to win is reduced. Thus blowing up a planet will be a big setback for your opponent, but it won’t win you the game. Typically games will be decided with a ground invasion, which should at least give us a dramatic end point. If players prefer the old style of gameplay they can select ‘Elimination’ mode from the pre-game custom options (the new mode is called ‘Domination’). Likewise, players can adjust how many victory points are required to win. Currently the defaults are set around 20-30, depending on the map. I’d like feedback on whether these targets feel right.
A new role for scientists
Scientists now have an extra role to play in the game. Each scientist adjacent to a HQ will boost the efficiency of planetary defences by 10%. If the planet has shields, that means a 10% increase to resistances. If the planet has a missile base or a defence laser, those attacks gain +1 damage or an extra strike. Gaicology is also improved, healing a planet up to 18HP a turn. This mechanic, called ‘calibration’, gives previously lacklustre upgrades the potential to be extremely useful. Gather six scientists around the HQ of an upgraded planet and suddenly a bombing run seems a whole lot less appealing. Like blockade and bombard, calibration creates another tactical link between the war in space and the battle on the ground.
Sprucing up the survival mission
The survival co-op scenario has been given some extra care and attention, as requested by Argothair. I’ve added a story, some dialogue and several extra features. There are now aliens on some of the planets alongside a special elusive character to rescue. There are also rogue pirates roaming around in space which can hack and take control of your ships. In addition, the income of the AI factions increases by +1g each turn which will make the late game more of a challenge, and their ships should target the space station more often. To help the defenders the space station now packs a special weapon, usable by players, which discharges a pulse slowing every enemy ship in a huge radius. All this should make the map more interesting and a little different each time.
By the way, there are still some issues which I could use some help with:
- The lunar terrain code needs updating as the transitions are mostly broken now
- We could do with some more combat animations, especially among the ground units
- For some reason the GE era isn't represented on the online unit database
Anyway, for those who enjoy such things, here is the complete changelog:
Every update is informed and inspired by the comments in this thread, so keep them coming!
Introducing Faction Heroes
Players now start the game with a special faction hero, which can be beamed up and deployed like other ground units. However, these guys are level 2 so their leadership abilities are a great boon when used alongside level 0 soldiers. In addition, heroes get an exploration bonus of 10XP whenever they visit the surface of a new planet. And they each have a unique set of AMLAs, which means they can gain an extra ability every time they advance. For instance, the Terran’s Captain can gain suppression which allows him to slow enemies with his gatling cannon. Meanwhile, the Vector can acquire abilities that confer bonuses to every Steelhive unit in a connected network. Heroes are tough, but they cannot be replaced. Hopefully they will make the factions even more unique, and will ensure that invasions are quicker and more decisive.
Victory Points for the win!
The default victory conditions have changed: players must now acquire a certain number of victory points to win the game. These points are tied to the possession of planets: Homeworld (5VP), Giant (3VP), Dwarf (2VP), Moon (1VP). If you lose the planet, you lose the points. If a planet is destroyed the number of points required to win is reduced. Thus blowing up a planet will be a big setback for your opponent, but it won’t win you the game. Typically games will be decided with a ground invasion, which should at least give us a dramatic end point. If players prefer the old style of gameplay they can select ‘Elimination’ mode from the pre-game custom options (the new mode is called ‘Domination’). Likewise, players can adjust how many victory points are required to win. Currently the defaults are set around 20-30, depending on the map. I’d like feedback on whether these targets feel right.
A new role for scientists
Scientists now have an extra role to play in the game. Each scientist adjacent to a HQ will boost the efficiency of planetary defences by 10%. If the planet has shields, that means a 10% increase to resistances. If the planet has a missile base or a defence laser, those attacks gain +1 damage or an extra strike. Gaicology is also improved, healing a planet up to 18HP a turn. This mechanic, called ‘calibration’, gives previously lacklustre upgrades the potential to be extremely useful. Gather six scientists around the HQ of an upgraded planet and suddenly a bombing run seems a whole lot less appealing. Like blockade and bombard, calibration creates another tactical link between the war in space and the battle on the ground.
Sprucing up the survival mission
The survival co-op scenario has been given some extra care and attention, as requested by Argothair. I’ve added a story, some dialogue and several extra features. There are now aliens on some of the planets alongside a special elusive character to rescue. There are also rogue pirates roaming around in space which can hack and take control of your ships. In addition, the income of the AI factions increases by +1g each turn which will make the late game more of a challenge, and their ships should target the space station more often. To help the defenders the space station now packs a special weapon, usable by players, which discharges a pulse slowing every enemy ship in a huge radius. All this should make the map more interesting and a little different each time.
By the way, there are still some issues which I could use some help with:
- The lunar terrain code needs updating as the transitions are mostly broken now
- We could do with some more combat animations, especially among the ground units
- For some reason the GE era isn't represented on the online unit database
Anyway, for those who enjoy such things, here is the complete changelog:
Spoiler:
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
-
Atreides
- Posts: 1074
- Joined: March 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm
- Location: On the 2nd story of the centre village of Merwuerdigliebe turning the lights on and off
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Awesome. I just played the tutorial. I remember trying this in 1.12 but being disappointed that I couldn't play against the AI so now I'm happy.
Found a missing word in the messages for turn 11:
You should now enough firepower to attack the enemy.
"have" : )
The other text things were that it tells us to go to a "brown planet". Alas. We can't see it in the fog. (turn off fog for tutorial?)
Also it kinda assumes we'd be super lucky when invading the enemy planet, taking only one turn to do stuff, perhaps rewrite that to a more vague timeline. But that's more of a polishing the chrome sort of thing. Although it runs great and seems ready to have that chrome polished! Same thing with the ship upgrade, you can't actually have enough research for the turbo when it suggests you buy one.
Actually speaking of fog which I assume would be in most normal games, when you beam down the fog isn't cleared to vision range. Is that intentional? (Update, started playing a regular game and I see that it only happens on contested landings, so I guess I have the answer: intentional)
Oh yeah also the L0 soldier has no description. How about "Just your average Space Cadet with a Blaster." ; )
P.S. The music is niiiice. Very MOO2 style.
P.P.S. Oh the hero text could be improved by xplaining that the xp is only gained after the hero makes a move on the planet. Oh and the science text can also be improved by stating that the scientist can't research while on board ship. Hmmm how about a ship upgrade: Science Lab?
Found a missing word in the messages for turn 11:
You should now enough firepower to attack the enemy.
"have" : )
The other text things were that it tells us to go to a "brown planet". Alas. We can't see it in the fog. (turn off fog for tutorial?)
Also it kinda assumes we'd be super lucky when invading the enemy planet, taking only one turn to do stuff, perhaps rewrite that to a more vague timeline. But that's more of a polishing the chrome sort of thing. Although it runs great and seems ready to have that chrome polished! Same thing with the ship upgrade, you can't actually have enough research for the turbo when it suggests you buy one.
Actually speaking of fog which I assume would be in most normal games, when you beam down the fog isn't cleared to vision range. Is that intentional? (Update, started playing a regular game and I see that it only happens on contested landings, so I guess I have the answer: intentional)
Oh yeah also the L0 soldier has no description. How about "Just your average Space Cadet with a Blaster." ; )
P.S. The music is niiiice. Very MOO2 style.
P.P.S. Oh the hero text could be improved by xplaining that the xp is only gained after the hero makes a move on the planet. Oh and the science text can also be improved by stating that the scientist can't research while on board ship. Hmmm how about a ship upgrade: Science Lab?
-
Bob_The_Mighty
- Posts: 870
- Joined: July 13th, 2006, 1:15 pm
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Thanks, I have done some polishing for the next update. It's good to have a fresh pair of eyes on the tutorial!
Actually, I think only Vendeeni have unit descriptions. If you (or anyone else) fancied writing some text I'd probably include it.
Okay, I'll update those ability descriptions too. The Ildari Cargo Craft comes equipped with a flightlab, that's their special transporter bonus.
I guess so, but it is easier to build a trade hub on a smaller planet. I remember a 3p game where I dropped off some workers to get a trade hub up and running on a green dwarf. It was earning me more than the rest of my planets...Argothair wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 6:05 am I mostly really enjoy the new buildings, but 50 gold for a Trade Hub seems wildly overpriced for a building whose main role is to *give* you gold in the endgame. If I've already maxed out population, then there probably aren't very many turns left, which means I'm not going to have time to recoup my 50 gold investment before the game is over.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
Very exciting! Sounds like great changes; can't wait to try them. 
Re: Galactic Empires (Wesnoth in Space)
OK, tried a standard run against 1 AI on Beta Quadrant, with all default settings. I played Humans, as usual, and randomly matched against the Ildari. Winning was trivially easy for me. I built a couple of interceptors to fight off the Ildari's starting ships, which mostly wasn't even necessary, because their starting fleet kind of suicided against my flagship off in a corner. Their stasis field was either not effective or not used effectively; they did paralyze one of my units for one turn one time, but it wasn't a critical unit, and the fact that the stasis field only deals 7-1 damage (so roughly 3.5 damage per turn) and even then only on the attack means that I have plenty of time to kill the ships that are actually carrying weapons, then gang up on the remaining stasis guy and blow that up, too. The stasis Ildarri seems like a very cool idea, but it's underpowered, at least as used by the AI. I would maybe give it a second attack (7-2 stasis) or else a weak counterattack on retaliation, e.g. 7-1 stasis ranged attack only + 3-2 kinetic melee or something like that.
I quite liked the egg-laying aliens; those were new since I last played. They are very pretty and creepy, and the eggs offer good target practice for my rookie soldiers. The hero was also fun to play with, although a bit overpowered against anything that's not a hero. Even with tech on primitive and alien life on thriving, I felt like I could send the hero plus one rookie soldier to any alien world at any time of day/night and still pretty easily win the war for the planet. I might lose the one soldier, but I don't really care (mechanically, anyway. Obviously their death was a tragedy, or at last that's what I'll say in the condolence hypergram back to the homeworld).
The AI did build lots of planetary defenses, and even got the 'calibration' bonus fairly often, but it really didn't do the AI any good. I think planetary defenses are still too weak relative to bombers. I still bombed its planets to smithereens and didn't lose a single bomber. You can see from the replay I'm really not doing anything fancy -- I built a few bombers, gave them the targeting upgrade, and was destroying a planet basically every 2 turns. Partly this is the result of what I think is an overpowered engine for the Humans -- Food Processor + Laboratory on your homeworld means you're very quickly generating 10 RP per turn, which you can then use to max out your ship and upgrade tech, then all your other tech so you get economics gold to keep buying new Destroyers. After a while I ignored my colonial economies and just relied on scientists on my homeworld for all my cash. Compared to these early (amazing) techs, I still think almost all of the endgame techs (replicator, nanomine, trade hub, etc.) are very situational at best, and probably actively counter-productive to build. Unless you're expecting a 100+ turn game, you really don't want to build these; just build the basic food processors and refineries to get +1 food and =1 gold per HQ, and then build ships.
I ran into a LUA bug midgame; not sure why or what it means. Something about a transporter error? The game seemed to work fine afterward, except that the victory condition did not actually trigger, even when I eliminated the Ildarri entirely.
Finally, I noticed that the AI very quickly expanded up until it hit 20 VP worth of planets, and then stopped and never colonized another world. I wasn't even seriously harassing its cargo ships; I think it just decided it had enough planets or it needed to focus on defense. This could be a problem if you leave the 'domination' threshold set at 30 VP -- the AI is never going to win if it stops even trying to colonize planets before it reaches that threshold.
I quite liked the egg-laying aliens; those were new since I last played. They are very pretty and creepy, and the eggs offer good target practice for my rookie soldiers. The hero was also fun to play with, although a bit overpowered against anything that's not a hero. Even with tech on primitive and alien life on thriving, I felt like I could send the hero plus one rookie soldier to any alien world at any time of day/night and still pretty easily win the war for the planet. I might lose the one soldier, but I don't really care (mechanically, anyway. Obviously their death was a tragedy, or at last that's what I'll say in the condolence hypergram back to the homeworld).
The AI did build lots of planetary defenses, and even got the 'calibration' bonus fairly often, but it really didn't do the AI any good. I think planetary defenses are still too weak relative to bombers. I still bombed its planets to smithereens and didn't lose a single bomber. You can see from the replay I'm really not doing anything fancy -- I built a few bombers, gave them the targeting upgrade, and was destroying a planet basically every 2 turns. Partly this is the result of what I think is an overpowered engine for the Humans -- Food Processor + Laboratory on your homeworld means you're very quickly generating 10 RP per turn, which you can then use to max out your ship and upgrade tech, then all your other tech so you get economics gold to keep buying new Destroyers. After a while I ignored my colonial economies and just relied on scientists on my homeworld for all my cash. Compared to these early (amazing) techs, I still think almost all of the endgame techs (replicator, nanomine, trade hub, etc.) are very situational at best, and probably actively counter-productive to build. Unless you're expecting a 100+ turn game, you really don't want to build these; just build the basic food processors and refineries to get +1 food and =1 gold per HQ, and then build ships.
I ran into a LUA bug midgame; not sure why or what it means. Something about a transporter error? The game seemed to work fine afterward, except that the victory condition did not actually trigger, even when I eliminated the Ildarri entirely.
Finally, I noticed that the AI very quickly expanded up until it hit 20 VP worth of planets, and then stopped and never colonized another world. I wasn't even seriously harassing its cargo ships; I think it just decided it had enough planets or it needed to focus on defense. This could be a problem if you leave the 'domination' threshold set at 30 VP -- the AI is never going to win if it stops even trying to colonize planets before it reaches that threshold.
- Attachments
-
- 2p - GE Beta Quadrant replay 20240209-003906.gz
- (80.08 KiB) Downloaded 16 times