Art for Legend of Wesmere: Legmir

[Sgt. Groovy]

why should the weapon have to be included completly?

The weapon is a pretty important part of the character as a fighter, so if it is to be included at all, why not include more of it? Besides, bent down and sideways like that that is a very relaxed position for a sword. If he's the antagonist of the scenario, then the sword could be in much more ready position.

I find one of the spiky studs in the near shoulderpad to be pointing in a weird direction. They should be perpendicular to the surface they're attached to, but this one seems more close to 45 degrees. It could of course be just crooked, but then the metal around it should be bent as well. Basically it should be pointing pretty much the same direction (or maybe a bit more toward the viewer) as the corresponding stud on the other side (the other studs should also be more forward, to be positioned similarily to the ones on the other side, but then the shoulderpads don't need to be exactly symmetric).

[thespaceinvader]

AI: the orc portraits for SotBE (in fact, all of SotBE's portraits) are among the many in line for replacement, I believe.

[kitty]

some little edits and final size...


@ spaceinvader: you make some good suggestions on the materials. you're right: my main intention was to keep the colour choices pickslide took. and when we will revise all the portraits i would like to keep these colours for the orcs, too. they seem very specific and orcish to me. easy explanation for the materials would be that the gold and the green are painted on. i could imagine that orcs like something shiny, too - why should they do all those conqusts and raids elsewise? on the eyes - you could be right, but they don't bother me at all. perhaps orcs have eyes set far apart.

@ turin: that's the kind of silent agreement making it difficult for newbies like me... but a search for "tusk" results in no anti tusk threads at all...

@ groovy: to me your reasonig for the full sword is no better than the same against it. you ask "why not include more of it?" - i ask: why should I? thus it will stay as it is.
on the spikes... i assumend i could be sloopy with their placement, because an orc was the craftsman. but i turned the strangest one.

[zookeeper]

The only real reason to change the sword position would IMO be the fact that it's easy to currently just miss the foreshortening and think he's holding a mere knife instead of a foreshortened sword. I think his sword looks very short even when taking account the foreshortening, but maybe it's supposed to be a short one.

[thespaceinvader]

That's fair enough, Kitty. Who knows, maybe wesnoth has green metals =D

[Kestenvarn]

Like the Delfador a lot. The Eldred is good too, although I think it may be improved with a more stern expression or slight frown.

[santi]

kitty wrote:

now i've got only portraits left which i feel uncomfortable: whether i do tree huggers (booooring) or a wose and a orc (both things i never tried).

Well, you already did a very interesting orc. I'm quite happy with zorlan. So now you are comfortable with orcs too.
The Wose may also be a challenge, but the catch is it can be used in 2 campaigns(also Delf's memoirs, since it's the same Wose)

Now regarding the tree huggers, a more philosophical note: My personal view is to respect
the time people put and make the most of it. If people have the time and effort to produce better quality material than what is available, that's great, but if not, we will have to make do with what is available. The only problem is that you have created such a high standard that I feel I will get tomatoes thrown at me if I dare suggest going with substandard art. So in terms of elvish characters what I think is that we badly need an older kalenz picture, because the HttT picture is simply no longer up to par.
For the remaining elvish lord pictures, I consider this of secondary importance-we could lift
generic pictures from your elvish collection. It would of course be much better to have them custom, but these characters appear on only two council scenaria until landar graciously terminates their sorry existence...
A more important character (and if I am mistaken one you also never tried before-so it probably would not be boring) is the Drake mage Aquagar.
(There are also portraits of Asheviere(which would also be helpful to have redone for HttT along with the older kalenz), Haldric-ii(lifted from SoF and this should stay as it is, or else also change in SoF), a necromancer and an elvish druid,
which would be nice to have, but not as important as the older kalenz, the Wose and the drake mage.
Maybe this will help make things less boring...

[kitty]

@ zookeeper: it just doesn't bug me enough to revise it... sorry.

@ kestenvarn: thanks! i didn't want to make eldred to menacing, because he is supposed to be much younger here - years efore he slays his father...

@ santi: i have to say that i'm a little bit bemused.
we had a list which characters (+ one story pic) you needed and i would do for you. on this list are only uripur, legmir, kalenz old and ur thorodor left. and i intend finishing those (but substituting one of the lords with a generic one would be welcome too, of course). i'm presently working on kalenz (but i'm not happy enough to post him).
and suddenly you step in with wishes for 5 further portraits you never mentioned before. if you had them on your list in the beginning it would have been fine, but after 13 portraits are done you suddenly get the idea - that's just not nice.

[Jetrel]

In SotBE however, all orc portraits have sizeable fangs if not tusks.

They're non-canonical, then.

Official canon on wesnothian orcs (proper, big-boy full orcs*) is that they don't have tusks. They do, however, have more pointed, carnivorous teeth. As additional, helpful notes, the full orcs are usually built like linebackers from American Football (big, burly, but often a bit fat as well). Orcs are generally very hairy, and have skin ranging in color from pale to dark. I'd prefer for a good share of the portraits to be 'white', simply to avoid the obvious implied allegory with skin color. Zolan is fine as he is, in that respect, though.

The current brown skin color of the orc units is not meant to imply they're all that way - I may WML in support for our existing-in-code ability to do color variants, down the road, giving them a wider range of skin colors.



* official canon on the relationship between wesnoth orcs and goblins is that they're precisely the same species; in fact, they're almost always literal siblings. Some are just born to be big and strong, more than half of them are born as tiny runts known as goblins (and they're usually born as quadruplets or more). It divides up like a perfect caste system - the big ones, the pride of their race, all become warriors; the midsize ones become support troops and labor, and the goblins form a base of mixed slave labor and cannon fodder. It provides an odd stability to an otherwise very unstable society - no matter how they abuse the goblins, the orcs will never run out of them, and never not be allied with them.

Trolls have no blood relation whatsoever to orcs.

[santi]

Kitty, no need to be bemused. You actually mentioned what you perceived to be the main characters and I thought this would be a huge amount of work already(Nobody had done so many portraits in such short a time before).
I am actually amazed you managed them and managed them to be of such quality. So don't take this as new requests - I only mentioned the
substitution Drake instead of elvish lord, since you said more elves would be booring. You can stick to the original plan if you want, it's fine by me. Even what you have already accomplished is way more than what I expected.

[kitty]

here is my take on grown-up / older kalenz. only lines and flats for now.

i tried to make his outfit a mix between the highlord (his rank) and the young kalenz portrait. and the diadem is heavily inspired by the one the current kalenz portrait wears... i found it pretty difficult to make him similar enough to his younger incarnation.

any c&c?



@ jetryl: thank you for the orc explanations! different skin colours on the sprites would be great - it's astonishing what is technically possible!
but when you talk about the "official canon on wesnothian orcs" - is it somewhere written down? where can i find it? and who made it canonical?

@ santi: ok, call it a misunderstanding then.

[thespaceinvader]

Can't really fault that, it looks great =D

[santi]

I fully agree. Same facial characteristics, more formal outfit,
fully consistent. Great portrait-Jetryl, does it look ok for HttT?

[doofus-01]

Looks great and it's clear he's the same guy. But is his right arm a little thin? If so, maybe a bigger bicep would help? Forearm looks fine.

Edit: Not that I really have any business editing your work, but I just wanted to show what I meant. There might have been something off with his neck, so I shifted that down as well.

[Sgt. Groovy]

<nitpicking>
The Kalenz looks good so far, except his grip is not a swordfighter's grip:

1. You don't grip the hilt right next to the handguard, but leave a little gap between.
2. You don't grip with all fingers, but only with the lowest three. The thumb and the forefinger only curl around the hilt, they don't apply pressure. That way, the sword isn't in a right angle to the arm.

That, and he's holding the sword in his right hand, but in the young Kalenz picture, the sword is hanging on his right side, suggesting he's left-handed (though he might of course be ambidextrous).
</nitpicking>