Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Feedback for the mainline campaign Northern Rebirth.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

17229_walker
Posts: 5
Joined: October 13th, 2021, 5:40 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by 17229_walker »

youtube version is good. However, it seemed mostly luck based. Despite the healing from the 2 white mages, the lords seemed very very near death several times throughout the scenario. To beat this scenario without randomness, i think we must develop a better strategy. Not my assasination, not this luck based game of hoping a random fireball doesnt kill a lord, but something more concrete. Although I have stopped playing BoW, I hope more people can create innovative solutions to such difficult scenarios
User avatar
revolting_peasant
Posts: 229
Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by revolting_peasant »

I don't understand what the bottom of the level is for. I'm playing this on (don't laugh!) Easy - first time I'm playing the campaign. The part of the pass that forks through the west then south - it's totally empty with no units nor any - seemingly - events I can trigger. So why even have it?
User avatar
Lord-Knightmare
Discord Moderator
Posts: 2340
Joined: May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm
Location: Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.
Contact:

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

revolting_peasant wrote: April 19th, 2022, 7:17 pm I don't understand what the bottom of the level is for. I'm playing this on (don't laugh!) Easy - first time I'm playing the campaign. The part of the pass that forks through the west then south - it's totally empty with no units nor any - seemingly - events I can trigger. So why even have it?
NR is slated for a rework in the next stable (1.18). Hopefully your concern is going to be addressed.
Creator of "War of Legends"
Creator of the Isle of Mists survival scenario.
Maintainer of Forward They Cried
User:Knyghtmare | My Medium
gnombat
Posts: 682
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 8:49 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by gnombat »

revolting_peasant wrote: April 19th, 2022, 7:17 pm I don't understand what the bottom of the level is for. I'm playing this on (don't laugh!) Easy - first time I'm playing the campaign. The part of the pass that forks through the west then south - it's totally empty with no units nor any - seemingly - events I can trigger. So why even have it?
It's a long story...

The map was originally found in Heir to the Throne (along with the characters Ro'Sothian and Ro'Arthian - who were not dead yet), in a scenario called "Mountain Pass". In that scenario, the player had to basically cross the entire map. The location in Northern Rebirth was supposed to be the same as in Heir to the Throne - the idea was that players who had played Heir to the Throne would recognize the map and it would provide some continuity with that campaign. Except that the "Mountain Pass" scenario was removed from Heir to the Throne (a long time ago). So now the map is only found in Northern Rebirth, even though it doesn't really make much sense there (since basically only the top half of the map is used).

I don't know why it was removed from Heir to the Throne.
User avatar
revolting_peasant
Posts: 229
Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by revolting_peasant »

@gnombat: Ok, so, if it's not removed from NR - I would suggest clipping it.
User avatar
Lord-Knightmare
Discord Moderator
Posts: 2340
Joined: May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm
Location: Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.
Contact:

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

The map was originally found in Heir to the Throne (along with the characters Ro'Sothian and Ro'Arthian - who were not dead yet), in a scenario called "Mountain Pass". In that scenario, the player had to basically cross the entire map. The location in Northern Rebirth was supposed to be the same as in Heir to the Throne - the idea was that players who had played Heir to the Throne would recognize the map and it would provide some continuity with that campaign. Except that the "Mountain Pass" scenario was removed from Heir to the Throne (a long time ago). So now the map is only found in Northern Rebirth, even though it doesn't really make much sense there (since basically only the top half of the map is used).
Woah. Didn't know this. I finish HttT back in 1.10 so..I guess it wasn't there at that time? Otherwise would have known a scenario existed.

Also, is this that scenario where...there were those petrifying cockatrice units?
Creator of "War of Legends"
Creator of the Isle of Mists survival scenario.
Maintainer of Forward They Cried
User:Knyghtmare | My Medium
gnombat
Posts: 682
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 8:49 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by gnombat »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: April 19th, 2022, 8:52 pm Woah. Didn't know this. I finish HttT back in 1.10 so..I guess it wasn't there at that time? Otherwise would have known a scenario existed.
I think it was removed long before then - you have to go all the way back to Wesnoth 1.0 to find it.
Lord-Knightmare wrote: April 19th, 2022, 8:52 pm Also, is this that scenario where...there were those petrifying cockatrice units?
No, that's another Heir to the Throne scenario which was removed - "The Valley of Statues".
pathogen7
Posts: 1
Joined: November 26th, 2023, 9:34 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 7 - Settling Disputes

Post by pathogen7 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Only the normal/intermediate difficulty.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 or 10.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. Kill the lich and keep the dwarf lord ally alive.

One thing that's never made clear though is that the loyal white mages are invincible and return after being killed. I've been reading the wiki walkthrough for each scenario after I beat it, which is the only reason that I know. It would be better design for the game to communicate this to the player directly in some way (other than getting one of the mages clobbered!).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's interesting that the two potential ally mages turn out to be liches, I began to wonder if we'd actually get undead on our team. This campaign is already pretty loaded with characters though, I found I didn't have much patience for learning about the random new dwarf leader.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Resources. You get 100 gold and the enemy starts with 1100 to recruit with. It's unbalanced enough that I thought it was a bug, but based on other comments in this thread this amount of starting gold seems to be the intended design.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4.

Between the allied AI's poor choices and the extreme care and efficiency you need to have with your own troops, there's no margin for error or for bad rolls. Wesnoth is at its best when you don't need to save and reload after losing a unit or two, and at its grindiest and least fun when the margin for error is nil.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Number one: give the player control over the allied dwarves. Losing the scenario because the dwarf lord charges out of his keep, at 10 HP, to get clobbered by a troll in one swing feels terrible. Also, watching the AI run its ulfserkers into unwinnable battles, or taking fights on atrocious terrain again and again, is just ridiculous. The ulfs will lose a straight up battle with anything but a mage, they can't even take a troll whelp (unless terrain favours them strongly).

Since the allied dwarf's AI has its aggression dialed up to 11, you end up tempted to follow all their ulfs into battle across the river, but it seems like this is probably a mistake. The allies won't take advantage of your healers, won't stay grouped up with your army, and won't even try to end their turns on good terrain.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Several.
- On one occasion, losing the allied dwarf lord after it made a very unwise attack (while I was retreating to his keep with just Camerin surviving on the right)
- On other occasions, after losing too many (or any) loyal or high level units. In this scenario, that describes your entire army.
- On one occasion, after getting Tallin killed. I had imagined that a level 3 general could hold a position on the line with 3 open hexes for attackers, but with 20 less HP and worse resistances than a dwarf lord he's too squishy.
Post Reply