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christucker
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.1

Post by christucker »

Seeing some discussion on here re:Destroyers balance, and wanted to throw my hat in the ring, although "PvE" might not be a priority. My great passion has always been survival scenarios which I've regularly played with my pals since like 2008, and I can say with some confidence that Destroyers turned out to be quite OP compared to pretty much any other faction in the Ageless era.
The biggest offenders were definitely Dark Portals and Cyclops necromancers. I mean some survivals you could probably beat with 2-3 portals alone - they resist everything, regenerate, heal your guys, magical attacks, damage aura... You can just plant a few of them somewhere and watch some survivals play out without doing much of anything at all, especially ones with smaller waves in terms of numbers like Team Survival. I never understood how something like that can be even remotely balanced in any mode of play, but I can't speak for PvP since I never play it. Cyclops necromancers on the other hand completely break the AI and essentially make the game pointless. We had to ban the unit entirely in order to enjoy playing at all - the endless army of zombies that you create become the sole focus of the AI and you've already won the game. Even in PvP I don't see how summoning an endless stream of units for free can be fair.
Not to mention the plague attack from other Cyclops is likely the best attack in the game for survival scenarios already.

By the way, this is by far the best era in the game, and single-handedly rejuvenated my excitement for the game a couple years back when we found it. Thanks for your awesome work. Also, toads are OP.

ps. I mean the Ageless versions of the factions, of course - dunno if there's differences. Some of the new graphics look rad, I wonder when can we expect them to be ported over to Ageless?
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Lord_bold
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.1

Post by Lord_bold »

I cannot speak for anyone here but think the one who maintains ageless is Ravana.

About the destroyers being too powerful, you have to consider that the EOM zombies are extremely broken in vanilla wesnoth per se (even ageless lol). But in normal EOM battles, they are balanced. While its true that the AI keeps on attacking the zombies, the necromancers will eventually fold against just regular units. Trust me I've done full necromancer spam in single players campaings against a mostly vanilla AI, and you can't trust them to offer much resistance against a fully fleshed out army. They're a good support unit but that is all.

In fact, in pvp EOM battles you have to very carefully plan how you move them because they are very expensive and quite fragile compared to the rest of the destroyer grunt force.
Btw if you're still playing ageless EOM maybe you have not received the latest patches. Destroyers have been tinkered quite a lot lately by IPS for the masters mode.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.1

Post by christucker »

Lord_bold wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:06 pm About the destroyers being too powerful
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression; that's certainly not what I'm saying. I'm only talking from experience regarding very specific modes of play and units that completely break any semblance of challenge in those modes, not the balance of the faction overall, although they do seem stronger than average in Ageless, at least.
Lord_bold wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:06 pm While its true that the AI keeps on attacking the zombies, the necromancers will eventually fold against just regular units.
? But we just established that the AI doesn't even focus them as long as there are zombies around, so how will they fold against no one attacking them? Snark aside, whether or not a unit will "eventually fold" against enemies is not exactly the most prudent parameter to use for balancing purposes, imo.
Lord_bold wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:06 pm Trust me I've done full necromancer spam in single players campaings against a mostly vanilla AI, and you can't trust them to offer much resistance against a fully fleshed out army. They're a good support unit but that is all.
Well I haven't played them in a campaign so can't vouch for that but sure, I wouldn't expect any singular unit to resist a full army, lol. The point is the potentially infinite value you get from Cyclops Necros. Free units just spawning out of the ether seems like something that should be put under heavy scrutiny for a reason, no matter how weak the spawns are - and in this case, they aren't even that weak.

And I don't claim to be some expert on this issue - I suspect they've remained as they are for a reason so they must be more balanced in PvP or other modes. I only brought up the survival scenario perspective, in which they are quite broken. Give me the Destroyers and any of the dozens of survivals I've played and I can bet you money I'll beat it if I get to the point where I have a Cyclops Necro and a big Portal.
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IPS
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.1

Post by IPS »

christucker wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:53 am Seeing some discussion on here re:Destroyers balance, and wanted to throw my hat in the ring, although "PvE" might not be a priority. My great passion has always been survival scenarios which I've regularly played with my pals since like 2008, and I can say with some confidence that Destroyers turned out to be quite OP compared to pretty much any other faction in the Ageless era.
The biggest offenders were definitely Dark Portals and Cyclops necromancers. I mean some survivals you could probably beat with 2-3 portals alone - they resist everything, regenerate, heal your guys, magical attacks, damage aura... You can just plant a few of them somewhere and watch some survivals play out without doing much of anything at all, especially ones with smaller waves in terms of numbers like Team Survival. I never understood how something like that can be even remotely balanced in any mode of play, but I can't speak for PvP since I never play it. Cyclops necromancers on the other hand completely break the AI and essentially make the game pointless. We had to ban the unit entirely in order to enjoy playing at all - the endless army of zombies that you create become the sole focus of the AI and you've already won the game. Even in PvP I don't see how summoning an endless stream of units for free can be fair.
Not to mention the plague attack from other Cyclops is likely the best attack in the game for survival scenarios already.

By the way, this is by far the best era in the game, and single-handedly rejuvenated my excitement for the game a couple years back when we found it. Thanks for your awesome work. Also, toads are OP.

ps. I mean the Ageless versions of the factions, of course - dunno if there's differences. Some of the new graphics look rad, I wonder when can we expect them to be ported over to Ageless?
Yup, I'm aware of all these situations you're mentioning right now. Let me explain some recent changes you may did not read the changelog in older posts, but my intention at co-working with EoMa is making it more fair to use and enjoyable to use and to deal againist. First to mention, is that Destroyers got a tons of rework/rebalances in most recent EoMa versions which is not Ageless's version that is clearly very outdated. Ravana said that to not update Ageless too often becaue EoMa is in a quick pressured rebalance changes because I'm a wesnoth player like most of you readers and I spent a lot of time and I'm clearly one of most expert players in both Ageless Era and Era of Magic as in Ageless I'm the balance dev and in EoMa I'm co-creator as Balance Chief.

But there were a lot of things that were reworked between Ageless's and most recent version in Destroyer's balance, explaining the most relevant of them:
- Lv1 Nightmares got an slight rework in order that their magical drains melee be only +magical ONLY when the unit attacks, but not while defending, doing such rework required the unit to get a boost of +1 rangede and -1g cost reduction.
- All nightmares/Mara advancement got nerf in ranged accuracy, as it was acting as hybrid fighter in survival modes where the unit gained upgrades, their ranged got significantly decreased.
- Cyclops Necromancer got a severe damage nerf as it was blatant that players were skiping the other advancement becaue necromancer was that strong with so few damage loss that the other option was meaningless. Got huge pricing of 48g as well of allowing a maximun of 4 zombies per necro instead of 6.
- Variety of new units to compense certain nerfs of destroyers, as well of more possible strategies to make Destroyers less linear and less sit to win.

Regard overall things done
- Toad got a tons of nerfs, incluiding lower lv1 HP regen, worse terrain defenses overall (a tons of terrain defense reduction in more recent Era of Magic version), severe resistance nerfs specially to magical toad. Toad can only get 50% defense in castle terrain but they now get a lot of more damage than they used to do in comparation of Ageless's outdated version of Era of Magic
- Toads got nerf, but other saurian units got buffed enough to avoid players to spam toads to win, even in very small maps which in more recent posts someone comented that toad spam did not work to him when dealing againist Kharos opponent and that he wished to build more salamanders instead.
- Runesmaster machines got plenty of rework many of them, and now is serisously more balanced.
- OP scout "Cosmic Eye" already got several consecutive nerfs in more recent version of Era of Magic at being the most complete lv2 unit in the whole Era!!
- Many units got rebalanced (buffed either nerfed) in base of their previous performance compared to other units with same role but from different faction, most dominant ones got nerf, while deficient ones got buff instead.
- Severe buff to Sky Kingdom low level units (tons of terrain bonuses, which individually each is not strong, but as a whole in an army makes a big difference), while a severe nerf to previosuly OP hydromancer/Master of water.
- Many new units that complete missing roles or matchup for their corresponding factions.
- Fixed few units that were exploiting too much in the meta, and they got clearly nerfed (Pyromancer, Fire God, Lv3 Ifreeti, Lv2 Carpet Riders, Lv2 Cosmic Eye, Lv1-Lv2 Roc Riders, Lv2 fanatic neutral aligment nerf, and many more!)
- Fixed few underpowered as by test they were not performing correctly (Lv2 gyrocopters, Lv3 Mechanical Dragon, Lv2 to Lv4 saurian healers, few cases more!)
- Improved seriously lv3 an lv4 balance
- Consistent repricing reworking for lv2 and lv3 in order to make Heroic and Masters variant be a lot more balanced.

Well, in the last 2-3 months there were a lot of balance adjustment for the best of the gameplay itself, concerning EoMa vs EoMa and as well indirectly planned to suit better in ageless when them all get ported to Ageless unit data base a day.


Btw, before ending my post, I would want to give 2 alternatives of Black Portal lv3 optional advancement. Both being lv3.

Black Portal (version 1)
HP: 52
Aura 13-1 fire melee +revenge (80% hit chance when defending) +Swallow(+2) healing the unit by 2 after getting a kill.
Dark balls 6-3 cold ranged +Skilled +first-strike (lv1 ranged attack with not much features, but can be used with no limitations)
Movement: 6
Price: 58g

Specials:
- Regenerates 6 (same as lv2)
- Damage Aura 8 (same as lv2)
- Scavenger+3 (heals +3 points when this unit is next to any unit that died both enemy or alied alike)
- Heal Undead+8 (same as of Chaox Vortex)

Resistances:
Blade/Pierce/Impact resistAnces 30% (-5% less than lv2 portal and lv3 than mainline)
Cold resistance 40% (15% more than mainline)
Fire resistance 30% (-10% less than mainline)
Arcane resistance -10% (-25% less than mainline)

Movement variations & Defense variations:
- Deep water movement cost to 2 (as well of potentially 50% defense)
- Mountains movement cost to 2 (as well of potentially 30% defense)
- Unwalkable & Cave defenses 50% defense

(Version 2)
Would have all the same properties incluiding melee, but only variation would be the ranged.
Melee might be the same.
Dark Ball 5-5 cold range +Marksman +Swarm
Aura 9-1 fire ranged +Magical (same as lv2 , but only +1 damage)
Unlike version 1, this has more ranged option, but ranged has +Swarm instead of +First-strike as well of optiona aura attack.
And being +Marksman instead of +Skilled

(Also suitable any mix of 2 variations of suggested unit)
Lv2 is also somewhat too strong in survival maps if XP mods or upgrades ... but without boosts seems fine.

Slight modification to existing portals / chaos vortex
- Portals melee will be changed from +Magical to +Magic(defensive) , unallowing the unit to have attack accuracy bonus if scenario gives somehow the opportunity to remove/sell the "defense-only special.
- Chaox Vortex melee will now be +Revenge instead of +Precision, which would not affect the unit anyhow unless as said, scenario allows to remove one special.

Dark Ball animation for Black Portal might be that it summons some floating dark balls from it's centre and attack any enemy with them, similar concept as of lv3 tharis warlock dark ball attacks.
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IPS
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.1

Post by IPS »

Wow, I randomed another 2vs1 in the same situation as usually I do (I only gift +25g starting gold to each AI and myself) and to be honest, it's too difficult for dark blood to deal multiple Fire Gods & Efreeti.

Great Efreeti is an extremely complete unit, it is almost as mobile as a scout, it's mage that has 50% in flat and most terrains AND REGENS, combination of qualities that and has magical and physical damage types so he's a fire caster that is not countered by heat resistant units and he's aswell a counter of other fire user units at having his meteor strike!! defenetively I'm nerfing again because to be honest, a game with such amount of reloads cannot be considered a win and therefore I just gift up. At a point that unlike in most matchups I've played, this is insanely difficult to points that it's not fair.

Even if I managed to kill many Great Efreeti, remminder that AI is very stupid at positionaning units, but imagine a more clever opponent as a good human player, to be honest, too much skill to ask to the Dark Blooded player...

Considering this game I will do some few adjustment to balance to Fire Efreeti and Dark blood.

Great Efreeti
- Health from 62 to 60
- Meteor Shower damage from 18-2 to 17-2
- AMLA XP from 110 to 150
- Price from 66g to 68g

Mystic
- Fire resistance from -10% to 0% (he's the one you're counting with to counter Fire Gods and Efreeti, so needs buff for this STRONG hard counter matchup!)

Jungle Champion / Saurian Assasin
- Fire resistance from -10% to -5%
This might do a -1 decrease damage taken againist slowed fire units and in very rare occations againist non slowed fire attackers.

Corrupted Shaman
- Fire resistance from 10% to 15%

Yellow Salamanger
- Fire resistance from 15% to 20%

Magical Fire is so hard counter of dark blooded, it bypasses the huge terrain advantages of their units and most of them are both low in health and fire weak, some dark blooded being more heat resistant might help in many situations.
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Lord_bold
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.1

Post by Lord_bold »

Here are more descriptions for destroyer units. I've tried to use them to write some sort of story: if they dont fit your overarching story plot for them, let me know and I'll try to make more generic descriptions, I guess. I just wanted a different form of writing descriptions haha.
  • Greater Cyclops Skeleton
In the time before time, the cyclopean Empire stood unchallenged, mighty and eternal. Its mastery over the dark arts cannot be measured nor compared to what today is known, many of its secrets lost to time... and the calamity that caused its downfall. This undead minion is an echo of this distant past.
  • Cyclops Necromancer
Destroyer "necromancers" are not to be mistaken with lich of any kind, for they do not possess any semblance of willpower of their past self, nor soul or mind. These long dead masters of the undead support the destroyer dark forces with an untold supply of corpses from past conquests... or maybe not so old battles. The only certainty is death on their wake.
  • Extinct Cyclops Mage
Legends and myths link the small and restricted knowledge adquired by the most inquisitive of the sky kingdom's loremasters from the destroyer forces frozen at the runemaster's ruins to the current brutish cyclops race. The current cyclops evolved in a way to forbid the use of dark magic and througly condemn it. If such a relation is true, we might be hovering above ground breaking discovery, and we should be extremely cautious.

  • Fallen Cyclops King
  • Object: large femur-like bone with engraved runic carving, sitting on the Occipital lobe of a frozen cyclops skeleton. Language was identified as a written variant of ancient cyclopus and was translated into runic dwarvish and troll carvings on the very same bone, but damage to the surface has erased a number of carvings. The object has been confirmed as the diary of an ancient lichmaster cyclops circa 7000 BH.
  • Transcription locked behind clearance level 5... accessing... Welcome, loremaster!

The following extract has been compiled by golem XTC1-3 from excavation site 3, property of cartographer Silos.

-(...) most unusual. The subservient dead flesh (...) animated using (...) (new?) (...) useful. Much (intelligence?) easier.
- New (...) (milestone?). Necromancy reigns (a supreme?) dark art. Artisans of living flesh will (bow to?) our thrulls (...).
-They destroyed them. But they don't (...). No (...) control. It (...) conscience. We (cannot?) (...).
- High warlocks have (barricade?) inside (...). Population (...) alone. (...) slaughter. (must?) flee. (King?) fled by the (...) gate. (...) collapse (...).
- Battle lost (...). They (are?) legion. They (not?) stop. They (only?) destroy. They all destroy. (...) prime command prevails (...). What have (we?) done. (...)failure (...).
- They share (...) mind. (...) not necromancy (...). Do not engage (...) it will grow (...) more intelligence. Do not repeat (....). If you (read?) flee. You (...) doomed.

The guru reminds you that leaking any of the restricted texts constitutes a capital x4-3 offense punishable by disintegration. It is paramount that the commonfolk do not get a hold of this information until the council has decided the contingency plan.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by inferno8 »

Era of Magic 3.8.2 is out!

eoma_3.8.2_promo.gif
eoma_3.8.2_promo.gif (562.84 KiB) Viewed 1037 times
This update includes a brand new unit for Destroyers - Black Portal. This unusual... thing is a more combat oriented lvl3 variant of Dark Portal. Not only it is much faster, but can actively target enemies - typical Destroyers' portals lack offensive attacks, so this new unit opens new tactical opportunities for players. What's more, Black Portals have a quite interesting "scavenge" ability - every time a nearby unit dies, the Black Portal is healed by a certain amount of hp. It doesn't matter if the killed unit was friendly or not. Black Portals just literally benefit from death around them :shock: I'd like to thank IPS for the concept of this unit. It fits perfectly. :)

Another feature is the new image of Infernal Vortex. Now it looks much more like ...an infernal vortex. :P Both Black Portal and that unit use 24fps animations, so expect some really cool visuals. ;)

There are also some balancing changes by IPS and new descriptions written by Lord_bold, so be sure to check them out!

@IPS: I used Version 1 for Black Portal's stats. Now with that unit released Destroyers have 34 units, which makes them on a par with Runemasters. Here's the per faction comparison table:
eoma-3.8.2-unit-count-table.gif
eoma-3.8.2-unit-count-table.gif (7.86 KiB) Viewed 1037 times
@Lord_Bold: thanks for the descriptions :) I haven't included the ones for Extinct Cyclops Mage and Fallen Cyclops Kings yet, because in my opinion they require slight improvements. Here are my thoughts:
Spoiler:
Full changelog:

Code: Select all

## Version 3.8.2
 ### Gameplay
	* added a new unit for Destroyers: Black Portal
 ### Units
	** Dark Blood Alliance:
	 * Corrupted Shaman: fire resistance from 10% to 15%
	 * Mystic: fire resistance from -10% to 0%
	 * Jungle Champion: fire resistance from -10% to -5%
	 * Saurian Assassin: fire resistance from -10% to -5%
	 * Yellow Salamander: fire resistance from 15% to 20%
	** Summoners:
	 * Great Efreeti: hitpoints from 62 to 60; experience from 110 to 150; cost from 66g to 68g; Meteor Shower attack damage from 18-2 to 17-2
 ### Abilities
	* added the scavenger ability
	* added the "magical (defensive)" weapon special
 ### Graphics
	* improved the look of Infernal Vortex
	* fixed the size of Dark Portal and Infernal Vortex unit icons on gui elements
 ### Descriptions
	* added new descriptions for Cyclops Necromancer and Greater Cyclops Skeleton (by Lord_bold)
 ### Code
	* moved functions from main and EoMa_eras to era_macros.cfg
	* removed macros as they are now in era_macros.cfg
 ### Translations
	* updated the raw translation file
    * updated the Polish translation
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IPS
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by IPS »

Test of the new unit and by random got 2 dark blooded opponents. Will leave here my toughts.

On a relatively strong army, the extra damage from a lv3 black portal isn't very notisable but indeed sometimes useful! Vortex is indeed a more strong unit but too unpractical in most cases (tons of AoD indeed, but pretty slow, tankier and less fun to use than new unit). I really like how fair the unit actually feels, the 30% physical resistance vs 35% physical resistance is notisable weaker by being +1 damage taken per physical strike in really many situations, so the +4 HP is pretty much needed. Cannot really judge about pricing the unit as I only purchased one time the unit, as the other I recruited later almost doesn't counts because of purchased too late.

Scavenger is pretty hard even in an unit with higher than average mobilty, I only planned once depending on the skill to avoid risks of lossing that unit againist a yellow salamander, rest of times it was a bonus that it was present but didn't valore it that much. Stillllllll.......... this unit is incredibly strong when combined of cyclops necromancer!! as you can use the costless cannon fodders to heal in absurd amounts of HP a single turn a single or few black portals which indeed require a lot of skill and planification, but the option is always present there!

It's pretty much correct that the unit has less passive regenerates than Vortex because it can easily outrun/retreat in most situations an average unit, as it can easily contest distant village with certain safety because of it's even 1 MP cost at water, forest, hills, frozen and sand! the limited movement on mountains and deep water appart that doesn't nerf much the unit, makes it feel "more realistic".

Regards dark blooded, yeap, I did not have many issues fighting poorly positionated lizards from AI, toads still were an headache and I'm glad I considered the correct amount of Apocalypses to can deal most situations there. Heat resistance improvement on many dark blooded is indeed a correct desition as it makes Mystic to feel like a real lv3 unit againist things that he's no longer weak to! they're now a more cost efficient lv3 now. Still, it's somewhat hard for dark blooded to deal againist a tons of heat resistant units, but mystic can punish most of them if correctly supported by other units.

Salamanders are still impopular by player base because of their max Lv2 cap, but having 4 new lv3 units is too strong for salamander family so this is not an option!

Still viewing in future matches if high fire damage builds are still a serious problem for dark blooded to see if there are more fire resistance buff to saurians/salamanders army.

Toads and Wyverns were already seriously nerfed before, and after a couple of updates the other dark blooded recruit list got several buffs in lv2 , lv3 and even lv4 units, so players can now enjoy of a more variated army without going a boring meta spamming bulky toads and devastating wyverns. Pierce weakness in Era of Magic even if pierce is considered the weakest of all attack types in the era, being vulnerable to it is inddeed a fair handicap for some too strong units and the only reason why Pierce is still a valuable attack type.

Not much else to mention actually, also I will try to add a description for Black Portals
Spoiler:
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by IPS »

Been a while the last time I played a game on EoMa, but today I again used random for my faction and my AI's opponents.

Not relevant balance issues to report, just that Inspired's resurrect is not working if an unit is slain by Area of Damage like fire-breath and potentially others like area-attack, triple-strike or similar ones, not sure if it's possible to fix these exceptions.

Another thing, long time ago I reported a magical resistance modification for Lv2 Elemental archer that is being 15% fire resistance instead of 20% , but my bad reporting it as cold resistance instead of fire resistance :P , and another minor relevant change that I would like to add for steamcopter which is an optional advancement for copter, as it's odd that steamcopter is forced to evolve into something very different (mechanical dragon) as in some aspects the unit is not exactly the same! even if in terms of stats being stronger.

First, will list a minor heat resistance for elemental archer.

Minor stats adjustment
- Elemental archer fire resistance from 15% to 20% (pairing it with his cold resistance)

Girocopter
- Gains a new optional advancement to Battlecopter!

Battle Copter lv3
HP : 60
Movement: 9
Shock Gun 11-1 melee impact +precision(offensive) +first-strike
Rockets 9-4 fire ranged +skilled +first-strike
Rockets 6-4 impact ranged +skilled +first-strike
Price: 64g
+Parachute (still, no hard-landing, similar to lv2 girocopter)

(Melee can use the same melee icon as of mobile defense turret ranged)
(Probably ranged can use Turboserker missile icon as well)

Resistances:
No variations from lv2 steamcopter
Edit: 10% to cold resistance

Defenses:
60% defense everywhere (except cave & mushroom)


Personal Opinion:
The unit in term of stats is much more similar to what a player that does not know about the era would expect from leveling up an unit like steamcopter, much less HP than mechanical dragon and flying fortress, but this unit is also 9 movement points and 60% defense everywhere. Usually if exposed to few units might take less damage from melee unless they have accuracy bonuses like marksman, skilled, etc. Fair enough considering it has lv2 damages and is a bit stronger than most of lv2 high tier scouts from other factions (as well at being an annoyance for melee scouts like roc riders and wyvern riders, reason of thier extreme 64g cost). It has 80% hit chance melee which can be used in very odd situations that the unit has to freelance in case of extreme need (like getting sorrounded or if it has to face a berserk before opponent's turn if there is no other chance). Very weak impact bonus on ranged to not be that hard countered by very fire resistant units (Which also helps the unit not being much weaker than other options of lv1 balloon advancements). By testing, sometimes the fire-breath AoD is a very powerful bonus but double-edged ... so players can choice if getting the same 36 fire ranged damage but with no area-of-damage. Melee is defenetively much weaker than of mechanical dragon, but this unit needs a strong cons.

Description:
Some of the most experienced pilots prefers sacrificing toughtness and armor in favour of more speed an agility using war designed copters. Even is smaller than the other elite flying machines of dwarves these master pieces proves to have some virtues which are usually apreciated and only used by pilots with best reflexes and maneuverability in air which would not agree testing or using never again any other flying machine rather than war copters unless there is a strong reasson to.

Not much larger than girocopter which uses cheap and outdated weaponry, but this one copter is one of most sostificated and modern weapon in the whole dwarf inventions. It will flank and take rid of retreating foes with real high chances of elimianting them.



Girocopters description
Pilots that preffers to not lose mobility and are bored of the long time that a hot ballon takes to fill to start flying will usually pick girocopter as next flying machine. Even if using outdated dwarf weaponry it is still efficient and brings acceptable ressults reason why dwarves still employ and produce them. In sitautions that dwarves have to act quick with air forces will consider in most cases deploying girocopters as they are ready almost instantly if well maintaned.


Mechanical Dragon description:
Mechanical Dragons are masterpieces that will never get outdated as one of most iconic of all dwarf inventions. Equipded with a complicated mechanical system that allows the head to bite like a real dragon with a deadly accuracy. As well inside the machine there is a system composed with a combustion chamber and steam tubes which will react when pilot decides to fire a real dragon breath to burn a wide area over his foes. (This is most likely incomplete, just as part of a potentially more clever description ;) )
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Last edited by IPS on May 12th, 2022, 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Mechanical Dragons are masterpieces that will never get outdated as one of most iconic of all dwarf inventions. Equipded with a complicated mechanical system that allows the head to bite like a real dragon with a deadly accuracy. As well inside the machine there is a system composed with a combustion chamber and steam tubes which will react when pilot decides to fire a real dragon breath to burn a wide area over his foes.
I just had to:

The Mechanical Dragon is a paragon of dwarven engineering which might never be superseded due to its intricate design. This marvelous contraption comes equipped with a motorized function in its head to accurately replicate the biting attack of an actual dragon. Additionally, this machine includes a system consisting of a combustion chamber and steam tubes which allows its pilot to aim and shoot a devastating area of effect fire blast which can be the equivalent of the fire-breath of a true dragon.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by Lord_bold »

inferno8 wrote: April 29th, 2022, 6:22 pm
In case of the Fallen Cyclops King's description, I like the concept, but I believe it could be simplified a bit. I'd skip the detailed object description and start with: "The following extract has been compiled by golem XTC1-3 from excavation site 3, property of cartographer Silos." And then I'd proceed with the "log"
Sure! Sorry for the delay lol.
  • Fallen Cyclops King
The following extract has been compiled by golem XTC1-3 from excavation site 3, property of cartographer Silos:
-(...) most unusual. The subservient dead flesh (...) animated using (...) (new?) (...) useful. Much (intelligence?) easier.
- New (...) (milestone?). Necromancy reigns (a supreme?) dark art. Artisans of living flesh will (bow to?) our thrulls (...).
-They destroyed them. But they don't (...). No (...) control. It (...) conscience. We (cannot?) (...).
- High warlocks have (barricade?) inside (...). Population (...) alone. (...) slaughter. (must?) flee. (King?) fled by the (...) gate. (...) collapse (...).
- Battle lost (...). They (are?) legion. They (not?) stop. They (only?) destroy. They all destroy. (...) prime command prevails (...). What have (we?) done. (...)failure (...).
- They share (...) mind. (...) not necromancy (...). Do not engage (...) it will grow (...) more intelligence. Do not repeat (....). If you (read?) flee. You (...) doomed.


Btw next time just change it as you see fit, i don't want my schedule to slow down the pace of this amazing mod. I'll try to have a couple more units ready for tomorrow.

Btw, could I have the unit I proposed around the beginning of the year reviewed? I've been discussing it with some friends. Let me sell it to you again, as you may have forgotten:

The Kharos army is seen on the campaign using powerful support troops, that they do have access to, with a lot of "small-time" recruits- a phalanx of squires, for example, guided by pious warriors. While every other faction feels and acts the way its portrayed on "to lands unknown", this isn't very true for the Kharosian grand army: destroyers have their swarming of undead, tharis their maniac, almost suicidal zealots, summoners their magical prowess and servants and the sky kingdom their powerful robotic beings and genious mages (note that I cannot speak about the runemasters because they are supposed to be almost extinct too). The thing is, the Kharos don't feel like you command the powerful legions of the forces of light- they seem to be commanding about 10 guys that are hard or next-to-impossible to kill.
To try and offset this, my proposal is a unit that is able to recruit shielders, the most basic kharosian soldier, to show the might of your combined forces. This should help with prolongued fights, since Kharos units aren't particularly cheap, and can't invoke either way.
To correctly portray how recruiting works, the unit that does it should be able to invoke a shielder only when stationed on a village.

I am not an expert on balance so I'd like for IPS to check that i'm not doing anything game-breaking too either. Please.
My proposed stats are the following:

Recruitment Officer lv3
Advances from: Bronze Warrior
Cost: 55
HP : 60
Moves: 5
sword blade 8 × 4 melee
mace impact 12 × 2 melee
+Recruit (can invoke shielders while on a village for 18 gold)
Resistances: same as bronze warrior

The idea is to have a somewhat resilient minion to rely on but more of a dedicated recruit unit, as an upgrade for bronze warrior- i've always felt that platinum warriors are just more of the same. Its not a star on combat, as its not supposed to be so.

My description for this unit would be:

Some soldiers never truly shine enough to be recognized as heroes by the peasants, or join the sacred legions. Most just go back to their families when they are relieved of service. However, a very select few choose to stay on the army to help educate and conscript more people. This job, while not glorious or awe inspiring as the feats of the Platinum Guard or Pious as the Sacred Sun order is nevertheless extremely important.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by IPS »

Lord_bold wrote: May 13th, 2022, 2:00 pm
inferno8 wrote: April 29th, 2022, 6:22 pm

The Kharos army is seen on the campaign using powerful support troops, that they do have access to, with a lot of "small-time" recruits- a phalanx of squires, for example, guided by pious warriors. While every other faction feels and acts the way its portrayed on "to lands unknown", this isn't very true for the Kharosian grand army: destroyers have their swarming of undead, tharis their maniac, almost suicidal zealots, summoners their magical prowess and servants and the sky kingdom their powerful robotic beings and genious mages (note that I cannot speak about the runemasters because they are supposed to be almost extinct too). The thing is, the Kharos don't feel like you command the powerful legions of the forces of light- they seem to be commanding about 10 guys that are hard or next-to-impossible to kill.
To try and offset this, my proposal is a unit that is able to recruit shielders, the most basic kharosian soldier, to show the might of your combined forces. This should help with prolongued fights, since Kharos units aren't particularly cheap, and can't invoke either way.
To correctly portray how recruiting works, the unit that does it should be able to invoke a shielder only when stationed on a village.

I am not an expert on balance so I'd like for IPS to check that i'm not doing anything game-breaking too either. Please.
My proposed stats are the following:

Recruitment Officer lv3
Advances from: Bronze Warrior
Cost: 55
HP : 60
Moves: 5
sword blade 8 × 4 melee
mace impact 12 × 2 melee
+Recruit (can invoke shielders while on a village for 18 gold)
Resistances: same as bronze warrior

The idea is to have a somewhat resilient minion to rely on but more of a dedicated recruit unit, as an upgrade for bronze warrior- i've always felt that platinum warriors are just more of the same. Its not a star on combat, as its not supposed to be so.

My description for this unit would be:

Some soldiers never truly shine enough to be recognized as heroes by the peasants, or join the sacred legions. Most just go back to their families when they are relieved of service. However, a very select few choose to stay on the army to help educate and conscript more people. This job, while not glorious or awe inspiring as the feats of the Platinum Guard or Pious as the Sacred Sun order is nevertheless extremely important.

It's quite interesting, also in high level matches shielders in Master's Era aren't very durable at all seen most scouts are magical, mages that are units that pushes the most. Saw as well that in medium (40x35 maps) shielders starts to feel slow and not highly supportive, but for these cases we have white warriors which can also teleports aswell. But may be a problem getting out of shielders when dealing againist barbarians . It's indeed a problem getting out of cheap meatshielders, but as most new units, new advancement are situtional instead of a must to purchase.

About stats, I would prefer switching a bit their melee damage/strikes so they would feel different than just an slightly stronger lv2 bronze warrior.

The thing I like of the unit suggestion is that it makes villages even more valuable for kharosian faction, as they already help a lot with teleporters. Also to mention something, summons skill doesn't work when the unit is standing over a village but this unit has to be in a village to "hire" a shielder which is something new and more kharosian concept.

About attacks, I would change it slighly a bit in order to make him a bit more different from bronze warriors.

Melee propossals
7-5 blade melee (only 3 extra damage, but a bit more if strong trait)
11-3 impact melee (+3 total damage than lv2, but split in 3 melee strikes)
Fire resistance 0% --> 10%

The idea of this is that kharosian have more options to plan weakening enemy units at specific amounts of health.

As well, slightly improved fire resistance to help countering slighly the cost ineficiency at making kharosian army slightly more heat resistant which is useful to not be slain by meta fire casters/mage (see the havoc that certain units like fire god or great ifreeti causes, it's better protecting kharos a bit more againist that, same reason why their light adept and level ups got fire resistance buff)

I'm still reviewing fire mage/casters balance but don't want to make an huge nerf at once instead viewing by test what needs to be adjusting and doing it gradually even if multiple consecutive nerfs have to happen (like how cosmic eyes got several consecutive nerfs, but I stoped doing so as adding new units to other factions was a more interesting way to balance the scout/map-dominance advantage that this unit had like 2 months ago compared to almost any other faction's scouts)
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by ForestDragon »

Together with inferno8 we present you the "Great Steppe + Era of Magic" era! This addon combines two wonderful eras to bring you a new exciting gaming experience. The combination of steppe and EoMa factions will allow you to take a fresh look at both eras, fight in never-before-seen alliances and diversify survival and other popular modes.

Unlike Ageless Era, our addon unites eras using a cool new technology that loads files directly from each era. This gives it a number of advantages:
1) the crossover era rarely needs to be updated, and unlike in Ageless era author can work independently on eras without having to wait for the maintainer to add their changes. If there is an incompatibility between two players' version of dependency era the crossover era will print a warning showing which files don't match
2) Since the crossover era requires the original eras to work, it doesn't steal downloads from the eras' authors, unlike ageless
3) The new technology allows the creation of all sorts of new different crossover eras, and you won't need to load lots of eras you don't want just to be able to play several eras you actually like

Here is the link to the crossover's forum thread: viewtopic.php?t=55714
crossover.png
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by Lord_bold »

IPS wrote: May 15th, 2022, 4:44 pm
As well, slightly improved fire resistance to help countering slighly the cost ineficiency at making kharosian army slightly more heat resistant which is useful to not be slain by meta fire casters/mage (see the havoc that certain units like fire god or great ifreeti causes, it's better protecting kharos a bit more againist that, same reason why their light adept and level ups got fire resistance buff)
One of the reasons I chose shielders as the unit to invoke is that they do level up into Sun followers if needed, and that's like the dedicated anti-mage unit line the Kharos have.
I like how you gave them a lot of strikes, that makes them more reliable at dealing damage in defense.
I'm glad you like my idea!
ForestDragon wrote: May 16th, 2022, 12:04 pm Together with inferno8 we present you the "Great Steppe + Era of Magic" era! This addon combines two wonderful eras to bring you a new exciting gaming experience.
crossover.png
Ah, thats funny, a friend of mine wanted me to try that era. I guess I'll have no excuses now haha. Very cool.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.8.2

Post by IPS »

Lord_bold wrote: May 16th, 2022, 7:32 pm
IPS wrote: May 15th, 2022, 4:44 pm
As well, slightly improved fire resistance to help countering slighly the cost ineficiency at making kharosian army slightly more heat resistant which is useful to not be slain by meta fire casters/mage (see the havoc that certain units like fire god or great ifreeti causes, it's better protecting kharos a bit more againist that, same reason why their light adept and level ups got fire resistance buff)
One of the reasons I chose shielders as the unit to invoke is that they do level up into Sun followers if needed, and that's like the dedicated anti-mage unit line the Kharos have.
I like how you gave them a lot of strikes, that makes them more reliable at dealing damage in defense.
I'm glad you like my idea!

Ah, thats funny, a friend of mine wanted me to try that era. I guess I'll have no excuses now haha. Very cool.
Well the idea is that there are more variety of attack/damage distribution specially for more large and complete army, as spenidng extra money for just 1 summoning unit is kinda boring. Usually all summons unit appart of the summoning skill, they have another utilty as well and summoning being just an extra in most cases. But on this case, the summon is the main trait of the unit even if different strike/attack proportions are different from lv2 bronce warriors even if their damage is very similar.

As same reason why heavy calvaries are 8-3 melee instead of something like 11-2 or 12-2 because before the new unit all impact attackers in kharos were 2 strikes but now kharos have another 3 impact strike unit as well of something more unique like a 5 blade strikes attack which is a good addition for kharos.

I personally consider that having more strikes of less damage is in general a disadventage when retaliating specially if on low health as first if the unit dies quick does less % of its total damage and if slowed represents even less damage dealt than if 2-3 strong blows ; but as SUPPORT melee you might be more interested in giving the kill to some other unit, you have better options to harm the target without killing (like planing hitting 3-4 of 5 as landing all 5 strikes even in 60% flat is rare) and for this purpose 2 heavy strike mace is not trustable because it can easily hit twice even in 40% hit chance village/castle opponents.

Still, even with the addition, kharos is almost complete faction, but, they lack of any infantry with physical ranged as kharos have only purely arcane ranged at most common attack type, lv3/lv4 sun followers are fire ranged and the only exception to the norm are mystic and elemental archers that are pierce/fire/cold ranged but not working as infantry (still, these are magic resistant which is needed to favour them to be used even againist mages or magic flying scouts). I don't count guardsmen and protecto/avenger ranged because it's not a real ranged just an extra. As I've said once, kharos having an hybrid fighter similar to Javalineer would help them significantly specially in holding villages against stuff that is more fragible againist physical than to magic. Will wait if Inferno8 is interested about a lv2/lv3 kharosian hybrid fighter javalineer before of potentially designing them. This addition would help at most in Heroic era and in early game as for this same purpose kharos can put a lv3 sun follower but you will not have him early game and you will be interested as well on having something that can retaliate well at both melee and ranged to deal a fair amount of damage to both melee and range foes and that is 60% defense in a defensive tile (ofc, archers can't do this because of the constant 40% defense)
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